Iraq PM tells Bush of 'dazzling successes' in Baghdad

[shropshire 0]

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Misternatural 0]

Lately I am interested in the behavior of John McCain. Here is a man who no doubt experienced unimaginable atrocities at the hand of his captors while he was a POW.
I have to think that he harbors a huge amount of bile as a result of the outcome of the Vietnam war and the way it was handled toward the end.- he is not alone, many of the top military and govt officials seem to harbor this same repressed anger.

He invested a large part of his life as a soldier and gave what some would say was a greater sacrifice than death ie.- being tortured for a cause.

And in the end he was forced to apologize. as a result of Jane Fonda and the anti war movement.

Thats a lot of gravy to carry around.

And now here's a chance for he and his colleagues to prove that the war machine model works.

Will it? thats a big fuckin' gamble Johnny....with other peoples souls.

but I guess if you can finally stick your finger up Jane Fonda's
ass it will be worth it.

Unfortunately historically many wars have ultimately been won by the side which harbors more hatred...and who is more willing to kill their own kids. But who has more hatred? Americans or downtrodden poor people who have nothing to loose...

an interesting and costly sociological experiment no doubt.

I'ts money and resources Vs. sheer bile, piss, and vinegar.
I hope the U.S. has more of the former cuz the rest of the world has plenty of the latter.

Get your wallets out people, I get the feeling it's gonna be a long haul.

Beware of the collateralizing and monetization of your desires.
D S #3.1415

[idrankwhat 0]

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Just dont take credit when we succeed then!!!

Reminds me, I haven't seen this one in a while.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNKSzmM44gE

[idrankwhat 0]

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Just imagine the political position they will be in when this is won!! They love thier media reports. that is all that counts. One side of the story. that is how they survive. Pathetic......good call

Originally I wasn't going to respond to these comments. But after thinking about it I thought I'd be doing you guys a disservice if I didn't point out that the notion that opponents of the war somehow want the US to fail and for Iraq to fall into a genocidal failed state because it supports our arguments is, without a doubt, the stupidest fucking thing I've heard in quite a long time.

[rushmc 18]

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Just imagine the political position they will be in when this is won!! They love thier media reports. that is all that counts. One side of the story. that is how they survive. Pathetic......good call

Originally I wasn't going to respond to these comments. But after thinking about it I thought I'd be doing you guys a disservice if I didn't point out that the notion that opponents of the war somehow want the US to fail and for Iraq to fall into a genocidal failed state because it supports our arguments is, without a doubt, the stupidest fucking thing I've heard in quite a long time.

Say what ever you like. I look at the actions. Nothing different can be concluded from the actions.

How is that for stupid?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[idrankwhat 0]

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Nothing different can be concluded from the actions.

How is that for stupid?

Consistent.

[rushmc 18]

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Nothing different can be concluded from the actions.

How is that for stupid?

Consistent.

You sure the hell are

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[idrankwhat 0]

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Nothing different can be concluded from the actions.

How is that for stupid?

Consistent.

You sure the hell are

Ok smart guy, so which part do you think that us failure fans like best?
$2 billion of our dollars per week being spent?
Thousands of our soldiers dead or being rehabilitated?
Hundreds of thousands of Iraqis dead?
Overextended military?
Strengthening al Qaeda?
Fewer allies?
No end in sight?

Oooo yea, let's keep it up and fuck over ourselves and the rest of the world so that we can shift the legislative branch of the Demoblican party a slight bit to the left.
Give me a break.

[Misternatural 0]

Just to clarify, The point to my Nam rant was not to make a geopolitical comparison of the continuing war campaign in Iraq with Vietnam, I realize that they are two completely different situations, and we have all been over this before.
However, the mentality is the same;-pro war factions(or pro victory as some patriotic websites are now touting) vs. anti war sentiment.

Its the same crossroad we face as in the early 70's.

Most of us here are smart enough to know that the Bush administration cannot sustain support of this war by telling the American public that this is a 15 to 20 year military commitment resulting in a permanent occupation of a nation state.

It has to be sold as a string of smaller military operations,touted as "dazzling successes" This strategy works, it's the old carrot and stick trick.

Now I consistently continue to vote along democratic party lines, but i have to say that the dems have no viable political strategy against this, and i dont think they are SMART enough to overcome it given their political advantage.
A resolution? thats a fucking disgrace and i predict that the repubs will hold the house the senate and the presidency in 08 unless the democrats get a hold of some strategists who know how to handle this.

Btw I checked some facts, Mc Cain and Fonda have reconciled.

Beware of the collateralizing and monetization of your desires.
D S #3.1415

[rushmc 18]

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Nothing different can be concluded from the actions.

How is that for stupid?

Consistent.

You sure the hell are

Ok smart guy, so which part do you think that us failure fans like best?
$2 billion of our dollars per week being spent?
Military spending is still less than 5% of the budget. If you really care about the money start bitching about the entitlments that are out of control
Thousands of our soldiers dead or being rehabilitated?
One life is too many however, as soon as you become as concerned about the much larger number of lives lost in other ways I will listen to you more closely
Hundreds of thousands of Iraqis dead?War is a dirty business. More civilans were killed in other wars. The US take more pains to avoid killing inocents than any other military in the world. This in and of itself can increase the number of our dead and the length of any conflit
Overextended military?
Maybe, this is a point that will always need to be looked at
Strengthening al Qaeda?
some say, some don't. I don't but it but no one can prove this one either way
Fewer allies?
thier problem not ours. Most of those condeming us have money concerns and not US securtiy in thier minds so screw them
No end in sight?

Oooo yea, let's keep it up and fuck over ourselves and the rest of the world so that we can shift the legislative branch of the Demoblican party a slight bit to the left.the war I believe was part of this but the larger part was the conservatives see no one in congress supporting them. Spending, the size of government and other issues were just as large an impact IMO
Give me a break.

You have listed facts. No doubt. Facts taken in and of themselves can, and do the way you list them, hide the goals and reasons. Big picture for US future security? we need to be there. Sorry you do not see it.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 2,476]

>Big picture for US future security? we need to be there.

We "needed" to be in Vietnam and North Korea, too. But when we left, the world didn't end. Indeed, there are a lot of people today - likely some parents and grandparents of the people posting here today - who survived because we had the intelligence to leave when we did.

Since then, we've made some bad decisions. But americans have proven that they can learn from their mistakes, and will soon correct the latest one.

[rushmc 18]

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>Big picture for US future security? we need to be there.

We "needed" to be in Vietnam and North Korea, too. But when we left, the world didn't end. Indeed, there are a lot of people today - likely some parents and grandparents of the people posting here today - who survived because we had the intelligence to leave when we did.

Since then, we've made some bad decisions. But americans have proven that they can learn from their mistakes, and will soon correct the latest one.

We have to make the mistake first but we may be headed that way

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[jakee 1,280]

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We have to make the mistake first but we may be headed that way

What do you mean we haven't made a mistake yet?

The Iraq invasion/ occupation was perfectly planned and executed was it? We are right where we want to be are we?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[rushmc 18]

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We have to make the mistake first but we may be headed that way

What do you mean we haven't made a mistake yet?

The Iraq invasion/ occupation was perfectly planned and executed was it? We are right where we want to be are we?

You have to know that this mistakes agrument is getting boaring. We all know that every war (before this one) has always gone perfectly. The enemy was tottaly perdictable and caused no problems. They just laid down and lost

Ever heard of the Battle of the Buldge?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Beerlight 0]

Point taken. It seems that most Dems would rather criticize than offer appropriate strategy on how to defeat terrorism.

[billvon 2,476]

>We have to make the mistake first . . . .

The number of people who think there were no mistakes made in the run-up to the war (and the execution thereof) now numbers in the low single digits. Even our administration has admitted it made mistakes. The only question that remains is how long to wait before fixing the mistake.

[rushmc 18]

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>We have to make the mistake first . . . .

The number of people who think there were no mistakes made in the run-up to the war (and the execution thereof) now numbers in the low single digits. Even our administration has admitted it made mistakes. The only question that remains is how long to wait before fixing the mistake.

If you need to read my other posts. I am not saying mistakes have not been made. You however are lookin for perfect execution. Go tell the ememy he should not adapt so we can beat him. You seem to have all the perfect intel. Give that to the generals. Maybe you should go run it since you have all the answers.

So, go to it. I know you can. You have all of it nailed down and know all the right moves.

Well?

Hey, what war was won with no mistakes??

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 2,476]

>You however are lookin for perfect execution. Go tell the ememy he
> should not adapt so we can beat him.

Nope, just competent execution. Despite what the right wing media is feeding you, things are NOT going well in Iraq, and it's not because our troops aren't competent, the insurgents are military geniuses or the "liberal media is emboldening the enemy." It's the fault of our civilian leaders who ignored the advice of our military commanders and abandoned common sense to pursue an ideological war.

>You seem to have all the perfect intel. Give that to the generals.
>Maybe you should go run it since you have all the answers.

I have piss-poor intel; all I can claim is that it's been better than the intel we went to war with.

>Hey, what war was won with no mistakes??

None. Now a question for you:

Was the mistake we made in Vietnam not staying another decade?

[rushmc 18]

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>You however are lookin for perfect execution. Go tell the ememy he
> should not adapt so we can beat him.

Nope, just competent execution. Despite what the right wing media is feeding you, things are NOT going well in Iraq, and it's not because our troops aren't competent, the insurgents are military geniuses or the "liberal media is emboldening the enemy." It's the fault of our civilian leaders who ignored the advice of our military commanders and abandoned common sense to pursue an ideological war.

>You seem to have all the perfect intel. Give that to the generals.
>Maybe you should go run it since you have all the answers.

I have piss-poor intel; all I can claim is that it's been better than the intel we went to war with.

>Hey, what war was won with no mistakes??

None. Now a question for you:

Was the mistake we made in Vietnam not staying another decade?

Mistakes, maybe even more than likely, mismanaged? a left wing talking point.

Right wing media, that is a joke. At best some are closer to center than others Including FOX.

As for Vietnam, the mistake was letting the war be run by politions. The same thing that is happening today. More lives would be saved (in the long run ) if a mission is given the military and the politions wait for them to come back and tell them it is done.

You and yours want to micro manage and that costs lives. We did not get out because we were loosing the war over there, the propoganda war was lost over here. Saddly, the same thing is happening today. Thank God we have a leader who does not stick his finger to the wind just to make sure everybody likes him/her.

No things are not going well, but the Dems want it to get worse just for the power it will give them, not because they give a dam for the troops or this country (I am talking the Washington Dems)

I also think that part of being worse (in Iraq)is the rediculus discourse and retoric guys (loosers) like Murtha are spewing. The enemy is smart and they listen. If you was listening to the media bs and the dems what would you (as the enemy) plan or do?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 2,476]

>I don't recall hearing any proclamation of "We've Won!" in the past three years . . .

Well, almost four years now.

"In the battle of Iraq, the United States and our allies have prevailed." - 2003

"We've reached another great turning point." - 2003

They're in the last throes, if you will, of the insurgency." - 2005

"I think we've turned the corner, if you will. I think when we look back from 10 years hence, we'll see that the year '05 was in fact a watershed year here in Iraq." - 2005

"On January 30th in Iraq, the world witnessed ... a major turning point." - 2005

"Good news to the men and women who fought ... their mission is complete." - 2005

"We have now reached a turning point in the struggle between freedom and terror." - 2006

Like I said, I hope this time things really ARE changing. But since it's been said many, many, many times before, I think I will hold off on celebrating until events bear out the happy talk.

[billvon 2,476]

>Mistakes, maybe even more than likely, mismanaged? a left wing talking point.

Perhaps the left wing talks about that, but it's also a fact. Rice admits that we made thousands of mistakes. I'm going to take her word over yours.

>Right wing media, that is a joke.

So there's a left wing media, but FOX and all are merely closer to center? When Colbert says it, it's a joke, but I suppose some people really do believe that.

>You and yours want to micro manage and that costs lives.

Nope. I want leaders to lead and save lives. Rumsfeld's micromanagement is one of the reasons we are in this quagmire.

>No things are not going well . . .

I can't tell if that was a flip or a flop. Or are you now "parroting a left wing talking point?"

>I also think that part of being worse (in Iraq)is the rediculus
> discourse and retoric guys (loosers) like Murtha are spewing. The
> enemy is smart and they listen. If you was listening to the media bs
> and the dems what would you (as the enemy) plan or do?

If I were the enemy? I wouldn't be fighting.

But if some guy bent on Islamic Jihad were running things? He would pray for George Bush to continue to provide him with the best training and recruiting tool he has ever seen. He would hope Bush would send more troops for his insurgents to kill, and he would hope that the republicans win control of the house in the next election so he could continue to widen the split between muslims and the west. His ultimate goal is open war between muslims and the west, and every day that americans kill muslims (and insurgents deliberately kill americans) is a day closer to his dream.

Of course, he needs a steady stream of targets. When he can claim he is fighting the American invaders, he gets the support of the Iraqi people. When he has only Iraqis to kill, he knows they will eventually turn against him and his insurgency will be finished.

So - do you want to continue to support this guy, or do you want to deny him his dream?

[rushmc 18]

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>Mistakes, maybe even more than likely, mismanaged? a left wing talking point.

Perhaps the left wing talks about that, but it's also a fact. Rice admits that we made thousands of mistakes. I'm going to take her word over yours.

>Right wing media, that is a joke.

So there's a left wing media, but FOX and all are merely closer to center? When Colbert says it, it's a joke, but I suppose some people really do believe that.

>You and yours want to micro manage and that costs lives.

Nope. I want leaders to lead and save lives. Rumsfeld's micromanagement is one of the reasons we are in this quagmire.

>No things are not going well . . .

I can't tell if that was a flip or a flop. Or are you now "parroting a left wing talking point?"

>I also think that part of being worse (in Iraq)is the rediculus
> discourse and retoric guys (loosers) like Murtha are spewing. The
> enemy is smart and they listen. If you was listening to the media bs
> and the dems what would you (as the enemy) plan or do?

If I were the enemy? I wouldn't be fighting.

But if some guy bent on Islamic Jihad were running things? He would pray for George Bush to continue to provide him with the best training and recruiting tool he has ever seen. He would hope Bush would send more troops for his insurgents to kill, and he would hope that the republicans win control of the house in the next election so he could continue to widen the split between muslims and the west. His ultimate goal is open war between muslims and the west, and every day that americans kill muslims (and insurgents deliberately kill americans) is a day closer to his dream.

Of course, he needs a steady stream of targets. When he can claim he is fighting the American invaders, he gets the support of the Iraqi people. When he has only Iraqis to kill, he knows they will eventually turn against him and his insurgency will be finished.

So - do you want to continue to support this guy, or do you want to deny him his dream?

I get tired of this. IMO you don't have a clue as to what is at stake so you have to create blame and conspriacy. So be it. The post started out ok but then you went into so much bs I don't know where to start.

So, you win, you and yours can set us up for what would have happened sooner had Bush not have stood up. You complain about the deaths. Ya, it is sad but what you support and say has killed more than what may be been IMO. Hope you can live with that. (but I doubt you even see it)

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

You and others like to post letters and emails from troops. Try this one that was sent to Limbaugh




BEGIN TRANSCRIPT


RUSH: I want to share with you an e-mail I got today -- and you've heard me read e-mails from this soldier, this airman in the past. This is the guy who ran the control tower at Baghdad International Airport. He and his boys ended up throwing a faulty French refrigerator off the top shelf of the control tower. He says:

Hey Rush,

I am scratching my head here. None of this makes any sense...but I wonder what you think about all of this...

The national news media shows lots of our American servicemen and women dying over there in Iraq and getting killed, helicopters being shot down, roadside bombs going off...etc...etc. Yet, when you are there, when you work with Americans and Iraqis who are actively engaged in re-building the country, who are out going after the enemy...there’s this ever-present sense of optimism, this prevailing upbeat mood of doing good. Just go talk to the wounded servicemen at Brooks or Bethesda. [RUSH: And I have. He's right.] They’ll tell you the same. Likewise, the Iraqi gentlemen (civilians) I worked with were excited about their economic prospects. They were eager for their families to experience a better life than the life they had under a totalitarian regime.

Rush, there’s an upbeat mood out there in Iraq. The country and its new democracy are moving forward. And the enemy hates it.

On the subject of “civil war” or “civil strife” in Iraq...

From what we can tell...there’s no “civil war” or “civil strife” as the news media puts it. The terrorists are coming from outside the country and killing civilians – as many as possible – to gain a foothold in Iraq. And they play this stuff on TV to make us sick. It’s working. We are getting sick, but Iraq is getting strong. If there really is civil strife in the country...then WHY don’t WE hear statements in the news about Shia leaders taking responsibility for Sunni killings, and vice-versa? WHY? This is why: Because they aren’t doing that Rush! THAT’S WHY we NEVER hear news reports from the so-called “civil strife” combatants themselves. Because there aren’t any. The IRAQIS are trying to build-up their country and make it work. MEANWHILE the enemy comes and kills everyone they can, and they run away from the scene (or die in the blast themselves).

One more thought...

I hate doing math, but think about this…

Rush...there’s anywhere from 500 to 1,000 road vehicle convoys per day in the country of Iraq. [RUSH: Five hundred to 1,000 road vehicle convoys per day in the country of Iraq.] One or three of these vehicle convoys (at most) get hit by an IED each day, which destroys maybe one or two vehicles. Most convoys have anywhere from 20 to 100 vehicles. NOW, what are your odds (e.g. CNN reporter) of being tagged by an IED????

In Summary...

I remain confused, amazed, and dumbfounded by the news media view on the war. And yet Americans are buying it. WHY??? How can we believe only one side of the story without seeing the whole picture, the whole story as it unfolds? Does ANYONE really know (other than those who are there) what’s REALLY happening in Iraq??? Is there any chance of getting any of this news reporting being done right???

America is doing good things over there. Our troops are awesome. They are an inspiration, a model of courage and of selfless patriotism. Why don’t people back home trust them?

Mega Dittos Rush.

Very Respectfully,

Tazz

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[jakee 1,280]

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Ever heard of the Battle of the Buldge?

The battle of the Bulge lasted a month and a half.

How long has it been since our mission in Iraq was "accomplished"?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[rushmc 18]

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Ever heard of the Battle of the Buldge?

The battle of the Bulge lasted a month and a half.

How long has it been since our mission in Iraq was "accomplished"?

Missed the point. Try again

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln