Christmas vs. Holiday

[NCclimber 0]

Moral Relativism is so cool.

[billvon 2,434]

> Moral Relativism is so cool.

Indeed it is. We can see what happens when you set morals in stone in places like Afghanistan and Iran.

[unformed 0]

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> Moral Relativism is so cool.

Indeed it is. We can see what happens when you set morals in stone in places like Afghanistan and Iran.

That's only because they're using the wrong set of morals. If everybody followed the morals like the Bible says, the world would be a better place.

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[champu 1]

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Perhaps you can provide me with a definition of "traditions" that includes a specific criteria regarding originating one's own tradition.

We have a lot of family traditons that we learned from others and adopted as our own. Their origins don't change the fact that they are our family traditions.

Perhaps you thought it was terrible because you just didn't understand it. DURRR

"Originality is the art of concealing your source." -Franklin P. Jones

Most traditions practiced these days were adopted from somewhere, absolutely, but you're not speaking to your original point anymore. The celebration of December 25th with a tree, gifts, a feast, and Santa Clause doesn't belong to Christians by right of practice any more than it belongs to your family.

[jakee 1,259]

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I don't have any tolerance for those who demand every one submits to their interpretation of a holiday that is older than their entire religion.

I see. You're of the opinion that even though the December Holiday season, which is overwhelming recognized as being all about Christmas (at least in the US and much of the Western World).... even though it originated with other December celebrations... ones that are now little noticed fringe events... that somehow these mostly forgotten forerunners to Christmas deserve the same legitimacy as Christmas.

I'm really just reacting to those who claim sole ownership of the holidays in the name of the LORD. People that complain about saying "happy holidays", people that say you shouldn't celebrate if you don't include Jesus and in general the whole "Keep the Christ in CHRISTmas!!11!" brigade. Basically, they've got their heads up their arses.

Keep ya guard up Champ

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Royd 0]

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Why are you so against non-Christians celebrating Christmas? Shouldn't you be more against Christians who celebrate Christmas by racking up credit-card debt, which has absolutely nothing to do with religious values?

We're not. It just seems that there are some people out there with a chip on their shoulder about anything that has to do with Christianity. There's never a complaint about anyone else's religious traditions. It kind of makes you wonder what exactly is so threatening about a babe in a manger.

[Royd 0]

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In my house we had a fir tree (real, not plastic), tinsel, flashing lights, presents, massive amounts of food, a walk in the country if the weather was good and maybe monopoly if we had enough time in the evening. Oh yeah, and none of it was remotely christian in nature.

You don't seem to be offended by the word"Christmas." Many people find this to be a sore spot. Personally, I think it's a lot of phony BS. As I said, nobody else's religious holidays seem to offend them.

[billvon 2,434]

>There's never a complaint about anyone else's religious traditions.

Bill O'Reilly gets very offended when non-christians want to call their time off a holiday, rather than refer to it as christmas. So some christians, at least, complain a great deal when others do not share their religious traditions.

[SkyDekker 1,145]

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the dutch legend of Sinterklaas.)

Don't forget the zwarte pieten....a term still untouched by the PC police...though they have tried....

[kallend 1,647]

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Tell me, jakee... did your family celebrate Christmas, when you were growing up?
How so?
I wonder... because you seem to display a fair amount of hostility against long standing Christian traditions.

That statement would make sense IF and ONLY IF the "Christian Traditions" were original. It doesn't, because they aren't.

Whether or not longstanding Christian/Christmas traditions have origins elsewhere has no bearing on whether or not they can be claimed as Christian/Christmas traditions.

On the idiocy scale, this ranks up there with those people who say "only Native Americans have the right to call themselves Americans". DURRR.

Whhooosh..... What was that going over your head?

I have nothing against "Christian" traditions at all. Just quit claiming annexed traditions as exclusively Christian and that non-Christians who like lighted trees in their homes and who send greetings cards to ther family and friends in the winter are somehow hypocrites.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Nightingale 0]

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It seems that the trend in getting rid of Christ from Christmas is to go to wishing people a Happy Holiday. But doesn't the word actually come from Holy day? I would sure hate to offend an agnostic or atheist by wishing them anything to do with a "religion". Maybe the ACLU could come up with something more generic.

holiday (from the Etymology Dictionary)
-haligdæg, from halig "holy" + dæg "day;" in 14c. meaning both "religious festival" and "day of recreation," but pronunciation and sense diverged 16c.

So, when you wish someone a happy holiday, you're either wishing them a happy holy day, or a happy fun day.

I tend to use "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas" because I have many friends who aren't christian, and Happy Holidays works for everyone, whether they're celebrating Christmas, Hanukkah or Yule. I'm not buying three different sets of cards.

[akarunway 1]

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I put up my Solstice Tree yesterday.

Is it decorated?

How so?

Any decorations typically considered Christmas tree decorations?

Maybe PORNAMENTS.

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[pajarito 0]

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I tend to use "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas" because I have many friends who aren't christian, and Happy Holidays works for everyone, whether they're celebrating Christmas, Hanukkah or Yule. I'm not buying three different sets of cards.

Why should you have to buy 3 sets of cards? If someone told me Happy Hanukkah, I would not be offended just because I'm Christian. Why would I? Why should they be offended if I tell them Merry Christmas even though they might be Muslim or whatever? Why would it be offensive for you (not saying you're a Christian) to tell your friends Merry Christmas if they aren't Christian? I just don't get it.

[Nightingale 0]

No, of course it wouldn't offend them if I wished them merry christmas, but I'd like to wish them something that actually applies to them. So, I go with Happy Holidays.

[yjumpinoz 0]

Finally an answer to my question about Holiday. Thanks for your thoughtful response that didn't question the legitamacy of CHRISTmas. I just think its interesting that people jump right into Christmas when they don't even believe in it. If I didn't believe in it, I wouldn't participate even though it has become as commercial as it is.

[Skyrad 0]

Why do Americans say Happy Holidays but when talking about going on holiday they call it vacation???
It doesn't make sense, why don't Americans say happy vacations? Why are they holidays at Christmas and vacations the rest of the year?

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Royd 0]

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but when talking about going on holiday they call it vacation???

Vacation is actually escaping from the everyday grind of life, which usually turns into its own grind. A holiday is just a day or two off.

[Skyrad 0]

Ah, ok. Thanks. Over here we use holiday if we are going away somewhere. Cheers.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[pirana 0]

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Why do Americans say Happy Holidays but when talking about going on holiday they call it vacation???

Because we do not go on Holiday, we go on vacation. A holiday occurs on a predetermined day in celebration of some event or person, and is pretty much universally celebrated within a culture. A vacation is taken whenever one pleases. People who take vacation during holiday screw up everything.

BTW, I'm about as atheist as they come, and I say Merry Christmas. I'm OK with Happy Holidays. I'm also in with Best Wishes for the New Year. I'm also good with Peace be with You Brother. Back at You will do in a pinch. But a good hearty throat-scraping AAAAARRRRRRGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHH!! is still my favorite.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[NCclimber 0]

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I have nothing against "Christian" traditions at all. Just quit claiming annexed traditions as exclusively Christian and that non-Christians who like lighted trees in their homes and who send greetings cards to ther family and friends in the winter are somehow hypocrites.

What I said and what you claim I said are quite different. It's about reading comprehension... some thing you, jakee and champu could all improve on.

I'm guessing you (all) misread my posts because taking them at face value would require you to set aside your prejudices.

[Nightingale 0]

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Finally an answer to my question about Holiday. Thanks for your thoughtful response that didn't question the legitamacy of CHRISTmas. I just think its interesting that people jump right into Christmas when they don't even believe in it. If I didn't believe in it, I wouldn't participate even though it has become as commercial as it is.

You're welcome.

I guess you could say that I participate in a small way... I don't celebrate christmas in the religious sense, although most of my family does, so I go over to grandma's and enjoy my time with my family. The day doesn't hold any significance for me beyond getting to see my entire family all in one place, and they'd consider it an insult if I didn't come to see them just because the party happened to be held on a religious holiday. We don't exchange gifts.

[pirana 0]

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Tell me, jakee... did your family celebrate Christmas, when you were growing up?

Tell me about your childhood.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[MuffDiver 0]

I can see that all of you need a little bit of education when it comes to christmas and christmas celebrations. Christmas has nothing to do with religion (christian or otherwise). Christmas also has nothing to do with astrological events (solstice, etc). I can't believe that I read through 3 pages of posts and nobody really knows why we celebrate christmas, so I guess it is my job to educate all of you. The real reason we have christamas is to celebrate the birth of Santa Clause. Don't even try and argue with me about this, you all know its true, all the facts point to this.

__________________________________________________
Don't take life too seriously. You'll never get out alive.

[kallend 1,647]

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I can see that all of you need a little bit of education when it comes to christmas and christmas celebrations. Christmas has nothing to do with religion (christian or otherwise). Christmas also has nothing to do with astrological events (solstice, etc). I can't believe that I read through 3 pages of posts and nobody really knows why we celebrate christmas, so I guess it is my job to educate all of you. The real reason we have christamas is to celebrate the birth of Santa Clause. Don't even try and argue with me about this, you all know its true, all the facts point to this.

So who delivered all the goodies before Santa was born? The Easter Bunny?

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[unformed 0]

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I can see that all of you need a little bit of education when it comes to christmas and christmas celebrations. Christmas has nothing to do with religion (christian or otherwise). Christmas also has nothing to do with astrological events (solstice, etc). I can't believe that I read through 3 pages of posts and nobody really knows why we celebrate christmas, so I guess it is my job to educate all of you. The real reason we have christamas is to celebrate the birth of Santa Clause. Don't even try and argue with me about this, you all know its true, all the facts point to this.

So who delivered all the goodies before Santa was born? The Easter Bunny?

Santa created God and God created people, so there wasn't anybody around before Santa.

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