steveorino 7 #26 December 5, 2006 QuoteQuoteYou do it your way, and I do it mine, but we both get it done, Praise the Lord!" Definitely NOT what I'm referencing. What were you refering to? steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stumpy 256 #27 December 5, 2006 Quote What's your take on this? http://www.wayofthemaster.com ANY way of promoting religion immediately loses any credibility as far as i am concerned when they promote Intelligent design/ Creationism. I have yet to see any "evidence" from these people that does not very early in the article give a gross misrepresentation, or a simple factual misunderstanding of how the theory of evolution by natural selection is supposed to work. I can see how both the story of the creation AND evolution could coexist but it appears they cannot.Never try to eat more than you can lift Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflybella 0 #28 December 5, 2006 I guess my questions are for those who believe you must do it their way. How can they lead a less than perfect life and preach hellfire and damnation to others. Your reply about their life promoting or detracting from their message made alot of sense to me. But I wonder how a less tolerant follower - someone who believes it must be done a certain way would answer? Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #29 December 5, 2006 QuoteBut I wonder how a less tolerant follower - someone who believes it must be done a certain way would answer? Seems you already have the answer - by definition. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #30 December 5, 2006 QuoteYour reply about their life promoting or detracting from their message made alot of sense to me. But I wonder how a less tolerant follower - someone who believes it must be done a certain way would answer? You want my opinion? Many preachers were taught that way ... treat your congregation like dumb sheep. Dumb the message way down. Lots of rules and regulations. Do it THIS WAY! It is a trickle down effect. A major problem I have with that is it creates much of the same problem JC had with the 1st century Jews. They added so much to Jewish law to keep people from breaking the real law they missed the whole point of the law. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chadkal 0 #31 December 5, 2006 This can be hard to explain, but I will try to use this example,..... I can tell you that I am a swooper, and I can tell you of all my wonderful swoops, and I can tell you how you too can be a great swooper,... but just because I say it does not make it so,...and it does not mean that the advise that I would be giving you would be right. The same goes for christianity, alot of people can claim to be Christian, and they can preach to you about alll of the wonderful things, and all the things that you need to do to be a Christian also,...but just because they say so doesn't make it so,.... Not all Christian churches teach the same thing, personally I think that some of the teachings are absurd,.. the best thing that I have found is to find out for yourself. I don't ever take what someone says to be "gospel". Listen to what someone has to say (or a church or preacher) and then decide for yourself if what they are saying is true. As a Christian I use the bible as truth. If what a preacher is saying does not directly line up with scripture then I disregard what has been said. -------------------------------------------------- I am a greek midget Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflybella 0 #32 December 5, 2006 Sounds like I'm guilty of stereotyping Born Again Christians. Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #33 December 5, 2006 Quote Sounds like I'm guilty of stereotyping Born Again Christians. It is part of the "label" thing I was talking about. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #34 December 5, 2006 Quote If what a preacher is saying does not directly line up with scripture then I disregard what has been said. That line always concerns me.If the church wanted to hire a woman pastor what would you do? Look at Paul's admonishment to Timothy to not let a woman speak in his church in Ephesus, or to his praise of Priscilla who led many house churches and straightened out Apollo's misguided beliefs steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chadkal 0 #35 December 5, 2006 I did not say that all situations would be easy to clarify. I am not sure how i would react in that situation,... It is something that I have put alot of thought into in the past, but I have not come to any decisive answers -------------------------------------------------- I am a greek midget Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #36 December 5, 2006 Quote Sounds like I'm guilty of stereotyping Born Again Christians. nahhh - that label used to mean one thing and then the really fanatical types took it over and now the rest of us see it in a less than positive light. It's a very rare occurance in our language - ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #37 December 5, 2006 QuoteIf Christianity (specifically Born Again Christians) holds that we are all sinners, is it "OK" to sin as long as we're admitting it and coming to church and giving money and trying to convert others? No. QuoteI mean, what's the goal? Getting to heaven? Secondary to escaping the wrath of God and righteous judgment which will be exacted on us due to our rebellion and lawlessness. QuoteLiving a good life? According to God’s standard, no one does good. The only good that comes from a born again Christian is because of Christ who lives in them. . QuoteAnd does good mean sinless? With regard to God’s standard of goodness, yes. QuoteAnd if so, if good means sinless - why don't you believe that those who do not proclaim Jesus as their saviour - but have led a good life - will get to your heaven? They aren’t good. See God’s moral standard of goodness. 10 Commandments. QuoteIs it because you believe that no one is ever sinless? If so, what's the point of it all? Repentance and faith in the Savior so that you can have life instead of being dead in your sin. So that you can have the potential to develop into a child of God. Until you are born again, the Bible makes it clear that you are an enemy of God. That doesn’t mean that He doesn’t love you. It means that you don’t love him. QuoteWhat about the Born Again Christian who has done a very horrible thing - continues to do a thing that harms people - but goes to church? We are to continually examine ourselves to see if we are in the faith in order to make our election sure. If a self-proclaimed born again Christian continues in a “pattern” of sin, it is very questionable if that person was ever a born again Christian in the first place. We are known by our fruits and will be righteously judged in the end for everything we have done. QuoteHow are we (the non Christians) to take it when that person preaches to us? DO NOT listen to them. QuoteHow do Born Again Christians view that person? As a hypocrite. QuoteAre you all just as clueless as I am but know somewhere in inside that the answer lies in the belief that Jesus will someday (or already has) save you? If you are born again, you will know it. It will be a radical change which will transform you into a “new creature in Christ.” It is not based on “feelings.” Feelings are deceptive. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #38 December 5, 2006 Quote told my scant crowd last SUnday, if you want to know what moral code to follow, get yourself a red-letter (Jesus words in red) edition of the Bible and read that.Have these threads given you a lot of material for your sermons? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #39 December 5, 2006 Nah, for the most part these threads are entertainment. I only have a few pastor friends that will dialogue with me about hard questions. One is a Nebraska guy who got his Masters in Yale and his doctorate at Anderson University; the rest either think I'm too much of a loose cannon or they are scared. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #40 December 5, 2006 Being born again is about coming to the knowledge and truth of who Christ is and what he did for all of mankind. The story of the two thieves who were crucified on either side of Christ is a great picture. One recognized Christ for who he was and asked forgivness, whereas the other one scoffed at him. Each one got his proper reward. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #41 December 6, 2006 QuoteI still struggle with why there needs to be a show of faith The faith that you must have is that Christ died for your sins. Even that cannot be done without God opening your eyes, spiritually speaking. If you do believe it in your heart, then your eyes have been opened. I do find this to be a problem with a lot of people who have been raised in a church setting. Things become everyday and ho hum. I have said many times that Noah's ark could be found intact, full of petrified animal dung, and it wouldn't make a believer out of someone who sees no need for God. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,464 #42 December 6, 2006 >I have said many times that Noah's ark could be found intact, full of > petrified animal dung, and it wouldn't make a believer out of > someone who sees no need for God. And we could find 1000 frozen humans preserved in a cave in Siberia showing every step in evolution from Australopithecus Afarensis to Cro-Magnon Man and some people would still find a way to disbelieve the science behind evolution. "But body 876 has a nasty scar, yet he survived without modern medicine. Explain THAT, you godless atheists!" If we did find an ark that had petrified dung from every known species of land animal, and was physically large enough to hold them all, then it would indeed go a long way toward proving the Deluge did in fact occur, and scientists would agree - because they base what they think on observable evidence. The issue is not that they have a belief problem, the issue is that no such evidence exists. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,271 #43 December 6, 2006 Quote I have said many times that Noah's ark could be found intact, full of petrified animal dung, and it wouldn't make a believer out of someone who sees no need for God. Unfortunately for you, that will never, ever happen.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TonyJ 0 #44 December 6, 2006 QuoteQuote Sounds like I'm guilty of stereotyping Born Again Christians. It is part of the "label" thing I was talking about. Do you have a problem with John 3:3? tony Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #45 December 6, 2006 I don't. Do you? This is what I said ... Am I born again? Yes (See John 3) I've been born of spirit. However, being born again has many misinterpretations to it, so I seldom wear that label. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 136 #46 December 6, 2006 I was born again the day my cypres saved me. I believe in Cypres, though it is not my religion.scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #47 December 6, 2006 My response to born agains is always the same: "Forgive me for getting it right the first time."" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflybella 0 #48 December 6, 2006 Hi - thanks for replying. I see by your sig that you're familiar with Way of The Master. Can you tell me a little more about them? What kind of church do they represent? What are the customs/traditions involved in following these teachings? It seems that most of the site is about evangelical work. Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TonyJ 0 #49 December 6, 2006 no,i would rather be called a born again Christian, because i think Christian has that label..tony Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #50 December 7, 2006 QuoteHi - thanks for replying. I see by your sig that you're familiar with Way of The Master. Can you tell me a little more about them? What kind of church do they represent? What are the customs/traditions involved in following these teachings? It seems that most of the site is about evangelical work. As far as I know, they don’t represent a particular church (in the traditional sense). The "church" they represent is the "church of believers." The audiences they try and reach are the unbelievers. Their doctrine is Biblical. Customs/traditions as with a particular denomination aren’t what are stressed. It's not that kind of ministry. It's Biblical, not denominational. Following the example of Jesus and the disciples by using God's moral law to bring about the knowledge of sin which leads to repentance and salvation by grace through faith in the Savior (not of works). Making the righteous judgment of God reasonable to the sinner. Seeking to save the lost from the judgment to come. Signs of sincere conversion (born again). First and foremost, evangelism (seeking to save the lost) should be the absolute 1st priority/responsibility of any church. There is no more important task. Repentance & faith. Repentance & faith. Repentance & faith. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
