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Royd 0
For the love of God, are you angry with someone who does or doesn't exist?
kallend 1,647
QuoteQuoteQuoteIs he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
Romans 3:29
Simple platitude. Everyone wants to big up their contender. What did the OT god ever do (on record) for non Jews? Did he speak to them through prophets? Did he give them advice? Did he create helpful miracles for them? Why did those who had no contact with the Jews not have a clue who he was?
The God of the OT is the same as the God of the NT. There is only one God.
And this omniscient and omnipresent god decided to change the rules about 2,000 years ago. Why, didn't his original rules work out?
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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
pajarito 0
QuoteAnd this omniscient and omnipresent god decided to change the rules about 2,000 years ago. Why, didn't his original rules work out?
Rules never changed. YOU are still under the law and will be judged accordingly.
kallend 1,647
QuoteQuoteAnd this omniscient and omnipresent god decided to change the rules about 2,000 years ago. Why, didn't his original rules work out?
Rules never changed. YOU are still under the law and will be judged accordingly.
Are you saying that the rules for salvation are the same AD as they were BC?
You just make stuff up as you go along. Your Bible is so full of contradictions that you can always find something to support your beliefs, regardless of what they may be be.
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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
QuoteFor the love of God, are you angry with someone who does or doesn't exist?
????????????????????????????????????
I only pointed out some of the contradictions and a few of the atrocities that have been pointed out for more than 1000 years. Many theologians have pondered over the many contradictions themselves. Would you ask them if they're angry too?
Contradictions can also be found in the Koran and the Torah. Hence, the importance of fact checking and good editing
"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young
kallend 1,647
QuoteQuoteFor the love of God, are you angry with someone who does or doesn't exist?
????????????????????????????????????
I only pointed out some of the contradictions and a few of the atrocities that have been pointed out for more than 1000 years. Many theologians have pondered over the many contradictions themselves. Would you ask them if they're angry too?
Contradictions can also be found in the Koran and the Torah.
Get with the program, will you. Although they read like contradictions, when put in the correct belief context and when words like "not" are properly defined as position sensitive (sometimes negative, sometimes positive according to need), they are not contradictions at all.
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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
br0k3n 0
QuoteQuoteQuoterighteous indignation
LOL you crack me up dude, how can you just simply say that the millions of deaths attributed your God are righteous indignation, why didn’t OJ use that excuse?
Your God is a mass murderer you can make all the excuses you want but the fact is if God was in a court of law he would be going down..
So explain how the Midianite massacre Num.31:1-35, BT 90,000+ killed is righteous indignation???
And why are there not more deaths attributed to the apparently “evil” Satan… 10 is a pretty poor effort, for someone who is “pure evil”……
Come on Paj come back to the real world, its not that scary.....
God's not on trial. You are. Are you guilty?
Well dont you think he should be, also Im not the one with about a MILLION confirmed murders
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--+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+
--+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+
Actually, I was just about to point that out myself.
Flavius Josephus didn't write a lot about Jesus, but he did mention him for about half a page in Antiquities of the Jews.
Josephus makes a good source too because he was "all of the above". He was born a Saducee and a Jewish aristocrat. He also studied the Essenes and Pharisees. He was a Zealot who became a Roman citizen.
He doesn't discuss his divinity, but merely affirms his existence.
Flavius Josephus didn't write a lot about Jesus, but he did mention him for about half a page in Antiquities of the Jews.
Josephus makes a good source too because he was "all of the above". He was born a Saducee and a Jewish aristocrat. He also studied the Essenes and Pharisees. He was a Zealot who became a Roman citizen.
He doesn't discuss his divinity, but merely affirms his existence.
br0k3n 0
hey Paj, this might be heading of topic a little but im curious as to why this whole story of jesus took place 2000 years ago... why not 1000 years ago, or perhaps 10 years ago??? any ideas?
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--+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+
--+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+
br0k3n 0
QuoteActually, I was just about to point that out myself.
Flavius Josephus didn't write a lot about Jesus, but he did mention him for about half a page in Antiquities of the Jews.
Josephus makes a good source too because he was "all of the above". He was born a Saducee and a Jewish aristocrat. He also studied the Essenes and Pharisees. He was a Zealot who became a Roman citizen.
He doesn't discuss his divinity, but merely affirms his existence.
From what I have read it seems most scholars view the Testimonium Flavianum as dubious - not only does the text read more continuously without it, but despite Josephus being a life long Jew, who portrayed Vespasian as the Messiah (Vespasian was Josephus' patron), the Testimonium Flavianum has Josephus state that Jesus was the Christ, foretold by the prophets, and a worker of wonders.
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--+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+
--+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+
pajarito 0
QuoteWell dont you think he should be, also Im not the one with about a MILLION confirmed murders
Their fate is the same as your fate will be. However, if you go to hell, it will be because you chose that path. Your punishment will be righteous as was theirs. They were guilty of breaking the law punishable by death and so are you. If you've been angry without cause (in your life), you are seen as a murderer at heart in the eyes of God. What are you going to do when you stand in front of your creator to be judged? If God is good (and he is), he will give you justice.
pajarito 0
QuoteHe doesn't discuss his divinity, but merely affirms his existence.
And that was all we were talking about at that time.
pajarito 0
Quotehey Paj, this might be heading of topic a little but im curious as to why this whole story of jesus took place 2000 years ago... why not 1000 years ago, or perhaps 10 years ago??? any ideas?
I don't have any idea.
br0k3n 0
QuoteQuoteWell dont you think he should be, also Im not the one with about a MILLION confirmed murders
Their fate is the same as your fate will be. However, if you go to hell, it will be because you chose that path. Your punishment will be righteous as was theirs. They were guilty of breaking the law punishable by death and so are you. If you've been angry without cause (in your life), you are seen as a murderer at heart in the eyes of God. What are you going to do when you stand in front of your creator to be judged? If God is good (and he is), he will give you justice.
*YAWN*
ok ill ask again, explain how the Midianite massacre Num.31:1-35, BT 90,000+ killed is righteous indignation
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--+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+
--+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+
PeterB 0
This thread took a predictable turn.
From whether morals exist outside religion to whether Christianity is The Bomb.
As far as I can understand, local (in both time and location) religious practises usually validate the morals of the time and day.
Or is it the other way around?
From whether morals exist outside religion to whether Christianity is The Bomb.
As far as I can understand, local (in both time and location) religious practises usually validate the morals of the time and day.
Or is it the other way around?
jakee 1,257
QuoteHowever, if you go to hell, it will be because you chose that path.
Hehe, thats a nice Hobson's choice you got going on there!
I'm kinda dissapointed though, back in the day it used to be a lot of fun arguing with you Paj. You were the one guy on your side who could always be counted on to really explain your position and argue the points people brought up.
Nowadays its all just fire and brimstone and "You will be judged!" I hate to say it dude but you're getting closer to chuteless every day
![[:/]](/uploads/emoticons/dry.png "[:/]"){kind=small}
Do you want to have an ideagasm?
QuoteQuotehey Paj, this might be heading of topic a little but im curious as to why this whole story of jesus took place 2000 years ago... why not 1000 years ago, or perhaps 10 years ago??? any ideas?
I don't have any idea.
A thought. It was in the fullness of time. Because of Rome there was a world peace, a common language (Greek), roads to take the gospel out, the expeltion of Jews in and around 70AD help take the gospel beyond Jerusalem (first Christians were Jews).
Just a few ideas. Could it had worked today? I don't know -- I believe it was the timing God wanted.
steveOrino
jakee 1,257
QuoteBecause of Rome there was a world peace, a common language (Greek), roads to take the gospel out,
Ahem - because of Rome there was a western European and Mediterrenean peace. They may have thought they controlled most of the known world, we know better. BTW, why did god send Jesus to save the people who already knew about him? Talk about preaching to the choir.
Do you want to have an ideagasm?
Gotta start somewhere. It BEGAN in Jerusalem
Acts 1: 8
8But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.
steveOrino
It BEGAN in Jerusalem Acts 1: 8
8But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.
steveOrino
jakee 1,257
Why not start everywhere? Why only one Jesus? Why only one Moses and one copy of the commandments? Why (why?) was there ever a 'chosen people?' (If you answer but one question from this post please answer that one)
What is the point of only revealing your laws to one small tribe and then getting uppity 'cos the guys next door have never heard of you? As PR campaigns go it was pretty shoddy work! If you think god gets pissed off that not everyone bows the knee before him he's only got himself to blame.
What is the point of only revealing your laws to one small tribe and then getting uppity 'cos the guys next door have never heard of you? As PR campaigns go it was pretty shoddy work! If you think god gets pissed off that not everyone bows the knee before him he's only got himself to blame.
Do you want to have an ideagasm?
Since those are obviously questions only God could answer with 100% certainty I doubt anything I may say would sway your opinion.
steveOrino
steveOrino
One of the problems fundamentalist (Christians and atheist such as yourself) have is they view scripture in ways it was never intended to be, such as a history book or a science book. Much of what you are labeling as "contradictions" can easily be explained away by the Bible college freshman. I have no desire to do that. However, some of what you call "contradictions" are anything but, such as:
God forsakes Jesus - Mark 15:34
Jesus is inseparable from God - John 10:30, 14:10, 16:32
God does NOT forsake Christ on the cross. When Jesus cried out on the cross, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? " It was a quote from scripture (Psalm 22) NOT a statement of fact. At that time Psalms were know by their first line, not by a number. here is where it gets real interesting to the atheist. Psalm 22 was written as early as 1000 BC (fundamental scholars) or as late as 300 BC (liberal scholars). Long before crucifiction was a common practice. No Jew thought Psalm 22 was a messianic Psalm before Christ died on the cross. It would be absurd to their way of thinking. They believed in a warrior messiah, not a suffering one. However 100s of years before it happend scripture foretold of the Messiah suffering through the cross. THAT affirms scripture. It does not contradict. Psalm 22:24 declares God has not forsaken him. That would have been the point Jesus was driving home when he quoted that passage.
EDITED TO ADD: The problem fundamentalist get into when they try to explain passages such as this is they have to add theology. For instance in the affore mentioned passage in the NT where JC quotes Psalm 22. If they take his staement as literal then they must defend why God will forsake His son. They come up with a theology that says something like, "God can't look at sin, therefore he turned his back on JC when he had the sin of the world on his shoulders. BS! If God can't look at sin, how does he look at us now? It is a slippery slope when you must rationalize every word as literal.
steveOrino
God forsakes Jesus - Mark 15:34
Jesus is inseparable from God - John 10:30, 14:10, 16:32
God does NOT forsake Christ on the cross. When Jesus cried out on the cross, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? " It was a quote from scripture (Psalm 22) NOT a statement of fact. At that time Psalms were know by their first line, not by a number. here is where it gets real interesting to the atheist. Psalm 22 was written as early as 1000 BC (fundamental scholars) or as late as 300 BC (liberal scholars). Long before crucifiction was a common practice. No Jew thought Psalm 22 was a messianic Psalm before Christ died on the cross. It would be absurd to their way of thinking. They believed in a warrior messiah, not a suffering one. However 100s of years before it happend scripture foretold of the Messiah suffering through the cross. THAT affirms scripture. It does not contradict. Psalm 22:24 declares God has not forsaken him. That would have been the point Jesus was driving home when he quoted that passage.
EDITED TO ADD: The problem fundamentalist get into when they try to explain passages such as this is they have to add theology. For instance in the affore mentioned passage in the NT where JC quotes Psalm 22. If they take his staement as literal then they must defend why God will forsake His son. They come up with a theology that says something like, "God can't look at sin, therefore he turned his back on JC when he had the sin of the world on his shoulders. BS! If God can't look at sin, how does he look at us now? It is a slippery slope when you must rationalize every word as literal.
steveOrino
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young
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