Six Muslim Clerics Removed from USAir Flight for Praying

[Amazon 7]

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I am treating them as people who do not understand that different situations require different actions and their actions were inappropriate given the situation and recent events.

OR did the imams fly at THAT given time on purpose.. just to get a response... that will show their followers how hatefull America is.... in their minds....at least.

[Scoop 0]

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People are going to be dead scared on friday then, when I get on carrying my rig

Yeah but hopefully you'll have the common sense to discretely put it away without a fuss and forget about it until you've landed. If halfway throught hte flight you put it on, dot he straps up and walk towards the door then I think you can expect trouble!

My point is, why should we tiptoe around other cultures? They are aware that what they are doing may cause concern but probably think "Fuck it, its my goddamn right!" and that attitude caused them to get removed and questioned. Hasn't anyone ever heard of keeping their head down?

[billvon 2,402]

>My point is, why should we tiptoe around other cultures?

We shouldn't! Do whatever you want; let them do whatever they want.

>Hasn't anyone ever heard of keeping their head down?

Skydivers certainly haven't. Heck, you can't miss skydivers in airports - most are wearing closing pin necklaces and skydiving T-shirts. Would you be OK being arrested for that? After all, it could make people nervous!

[shropshire 0]

<> - I think Bill made an excellent point about this.... above

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Gravitymaster 0]

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>My point is, why should we tiptoe around other cultures?

We shouldn't! Do whatever you want; let them do whatever they want.

>Hasn't anyone ever heard of keeping their head down?

Skydivers certainly haven't. Heck, you can't miss skydivers in airports - most are wearing closing pin necklaces and skydiving T-shirts. Would you be OK being arrested for that? After all, it could make people nervous!

How many skydivers are associated with a suicide religious philosophy? How many skydivers have blown up planes or flown them into buildings? How many little old ladies with Rosaries have done this?

[Butters 0]

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Would you be willing to not speak english on a flight to Saudi Arabia, because arabs are made nervous by the people who have recently killed hundreds of thousands of Arabs?

There is a difference between speaking a language and praying.

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Would you be OK with being arrested at the other end because you didn't understand that speaking english traumatized an Iraqi on the flight who had his mother killed by a US bomb?

There is a difference between a bomb and a hijacked plane used as a bomb (and given the context that you are on a plane).

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Or using the previous poster's example - would you be OK being arrested because you carried your parachute on board, causing people to think that you will destroy the aircraft and parachute to safety? Isn't that thoughtless, given the 9/11 attacks?

How many people have carried on parachutes and then blown up the plane?

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I have no problem arresting people who threaten flight attendants, disturb the cockpit crew etc.

Me too.

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I DO have a problem arresting people who make other people nervous. That's your problem, not theirs.

Me too.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[freethefly 6]

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Which group is responsible for hijacking the most amount of airplanes?

Just from doing a very quick research it appears that white folks in the U.S. have hijacked more planes than anyone else in the U.S.. Maybe white folks should be banned from flying. Or, anyone that may look like D.B. Cooper. Or, better yet anyone carrying a rig onboard a plane.

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Which group is responsible for for hijacking the airplanes on 9/11?

Why not ask which group is responsible for Pearl Harbor or which group is responsible for O.K. City or who is responsible for the deaths outside of Waco or the deaths at Ruby Ridge? Seems that your thought is narrow and extremely misguided as you seem to be invoking the idea that all muslims are responsible.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[shropshire 0]

Are you saying that more Americans kill Americans every year than say.... for example .... let's see........ um ......Muslim people... Surely you jest....

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[freethefly 6]

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Are you saying that more Americans kill Americans every year than say.... for example .... let's see........ um ......Muslim people... Surely you jest....

Let's see now... white folks have killed people, black folks have killed people, Asians have killed people, Latins have killed people, Baptist have killed people, Amish have killed people, Mormons have killed people, Catholics have killed people, Muslims have killed people... GODDAMN this list can go on forever as there are so many types of people who have killed people. Hey Butters, best play it safe and never leave the house

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[Scoop 0]

Who cares about hurting peoples feelings? People were in fear

Don't ever be too scared of hurting someones feelings to ask awkward questions.

WHats the big deal anyway, it sounds like they were detained for a couple of hours and missed their flight. Obviouslly nothing come of it and they went on their merry way. Probably more procedure than anything

[billvon 2,402]

>Who cares about hurting peoples feelings? People were in fear.

So we shouldn't care about people's feelings because other people had . . . feelings. But we should care about _those_ feelings? Hmm.

>Don't ever be too scared of hurting someones feelings to
>ask awkward questions.

I agree! If that's all it was - awkward questions - I'd have no problems.

[pfloyd 0]

Unless you speak their language you wouldn't know that they were praying. For all anyone knew they were inciting a jihad death chant. I for sure wouldn't go to another country and start alienating myself on flight. But then again I think things through!

My drinking team has a skydiving problem

[shropshire 0]

Internment is too good for them.... all of them

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Scoop 0]

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Unless you speak their language you wouldn't know that they were praying. For all anyone knew they were inciting a jihad death chant. I for sure wouldn't go to another country and start alienating myself on flight. But then again I think things through!

Exactly. It was, if not stupid, maybe naieve of them to not at least expect a raised eyebrow. Same as if I flew with gulf air dressed in a full miltary outfit I'd expect some drama.

Integration is a 2 way thing. It doesn't mean we have to accept you, it should mean we appreciate each others differences and respect each other.

[idrankwhat 0]

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Which group is responsible for hijacking the most amount of airplanes?

Just from doing a very quick research it appears that white folks in the U.S. have hijacked more planes than anyone else in the U.S.. Maybe white folks should be banned from flying.

You know, after Oklahoma City I've been thinking that we should arrest all white guys who buy fertilizer. Worse yet, white guys dressed as farmers who buy diesel fuel! And if he has a "real men love Jesus" sticker on the back of his truck let me tell you, that's some scary shit right there! Damn farmers ought to know better than to go around looking and acting like farmers! Arrest 'em all!

[wildfan75 1]

It wasn't just their praying that raised suspicions...

From www.startribune.com (the local paper)

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Pat Hogan, spokesman for the Metropolitan Airports Commission, said that witnesses to Monday's events told police that before the flight that besides praying, the imams were spouting anti-American rhetoric, talking about the war in Iraq and Saddam Hussein.

One of the imams was heard saying that he would do whatever is necessary to fulfill his commitment to the Qur'an, witnesses told police, Hogan said. Other witnesses said some of the imams were repeating "Allah, Allah," he said.

And a couple of the imams asked for seat-belt extensions, even though it did not appear they needed them, Hogan said.

All of this made passengers, the attendants and the pilot uncomfortable, Hogan said. As a result, the pilot called police to have the imams escorted from plane.

Airlines have the right not to allow passengers on a plane, Hogan said.

[Butters 0]

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Just from doing a very quick research it appears that white folks in the U.S. have hijacked more planes than anyone else in the U.S..

Can you provide the information and sources?

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Why not ask which group is responsible for Pearl Harbor or which group is responsible for O.K. City or who is responsible for the deaths outside of Waco or the deaths at Ruby Ridge?

It would be relevant information if Japan had fighter planes over Pearl Harbor, or the Michigan Militia was parking vans in front of federal buildings, or ...

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Hey Butters, best play it safe and never leave the house

Learn how to have a proper debate by yielding relevant information instead of making these types of comments (I never stated anything in regards to safety, I made a statement about inappropriate actions in regards to context).

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[NCclimber 0]

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Which group is responsible for hijacking the most amount of airplanes?

Just from doing a very quick research it appears that white folks in the U.S. have hijacked more planes than anyone else in the U.S.

Who, besides BD Cooper? What is the death toll of those hijackings.

I can list 19 middle easterners, who hijacked four planes, that resulted in the deaths of nearly 3000 people.

[kallend 1,632]

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A nervous woman pulls out a rosary during takeoff and starts praying. She is arrested after the plane lands for disobeying a flight attendant's instructions to "stow all carry-on items." Fuck her, too?

That's an excellent question, Bill.

Nervous little old Catholic ladies have never caused the deaths of 1000s of innocent people. Likewise, when their ilk did so, it was dealt with from within.

Queen Isabella of Castile (Roman Catholic) caused the deaths of tens of thousands of innocent people.

Mary Tudor (Bloody Mary, Roman Catholic) had over 300 protestants burned at the stake.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Butters 0]

I constantly hear the statement, "If you don't know your history and learn from your history then you will repeat your history".

Would knowing who did what not be considered knowing our history? Would profiling who might do what based on who did what not be learning from our history?

I am not saying all people from a group can be judged by the actions of a smaller group within the group. I am saying that all people from a group can be judged in comparison to another group as to who is more likely to commit an action.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[Butters 0]

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A nervous woman pulls out a rosary during takeoff and starts praying. She is arrested after the plane lands for disobeying a flight attendant's instructions to "stow all carry-on items." Fuck her, too?

That's an excellent question, Bill.

Nervous little old Catholic ladies have never caused the deaths of 1000s of innocent people. Likewise, when their ilk did so, it was dealt with from within.

Queen Isabella of Castile (Roman Catholic) caused the deaths of tens of thousands of innocent people.

Yes, but you are not taking into account context.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[kallend 1,632]

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I constantly hear the statement, "If you don't know your history and learn from your history then you will repeat your history".

Would knowing who did what not be considered knowing our history? Would profiling who might do what based on who did what not be learning from our history?

I am not saying all people from a group can be judged by the actions of a smaller group within the group. I am saying that all people from a group can be judged in comparison to another group as to who is more likely to commit an action.

OK, so Irish Catholics are more likely to be terrorists than arabs, based on numbers killed.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[steveorino 7]

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It wasn't just their praying that raised suspicions...

From www.startribune.com (the local paper)

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Pat Hogan, spokesman for the Metropolitan Airports Commission, said that witnesses to Monday's events told police that before the flight that besides praying, the imams were spouting anti-American rhetoric, talking about the war in Iraq and Saddam Hussein.

One of the imams was heard saying that he would do whatever is necessary to fulfill his commitment to the Qur'an, witnesses told police, Hogan said. Other witnesses said some of the imams were repeating "Allah, Allah," he said.

And a couple of the imams asked for seat-belt extensions, even though it did not appear they needed them, Hogan said.

All of this made passengers, the attendants and the pilot uncomfortable, Hogan said. As a result, the pilot called police to have the imams escorted from plane.

Airlines have the right not to allow passengers on a plane, Hogan said.

Imagine that.

steveOrino

[Butters 0]

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I constantly hear the statement, "If you don't know your history and learn from your history then you will repeat your history".

Would knowing who did what not be considered knowing our history? Would profiling who might do what based on who did what not be learning from our history?

I am not saying all people from a group can be judged by the actions of a smaller group within the group. I am saying that all people from a group can be judged in comparison to another group as to who is more likely to commit an action.

OK, so Irish Catholics are more likely to be terrorists than arabs, based on numbers killed.

No, it is not based on numbers killed.

If the percent of Irish Catholics who commit terrorist acts is higher then the percent of Arabs who commit terrorist acts then Irish Catholics are more likely to be terrorists then Arabs. This is basic statistics.

However, profiling should be based on context. If group A commits more terrorists attacks then group B but group A only commits terrorist acts against group C it would be bad profiling to suspect group A over group B in a terrorist act against group D.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[NCclimber 0]

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I constantly hear the statement, "If you don't know your history and learn from your history then you will repeat your history".

Would knowing who did what not be considered knowing our history? Would profiling who might do what based on who did what not be learning from our history?

I am not saying all people from a group can be judged by the actions of a smaller group within the group. I am saying that all people from a group can be judged in comparison to another group as to who is more likely to commit an action.

OK, so Irish Catholics are more likely to be terrorists than arabs, based on numbers killed.

Not in this country.

Kudos on the dead queen bit of trollery. I look forward to the introduction of Stalin and Mao into this thread.