Origin of the species, where do you stand?

[jakee 1,255]

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Since we are all products of evolution, why should we care. After all, we are nothing but animals with no soul who should only be interested in the survival of our immediate herd, pack, or flock, unless of course, there is a drive that comes from a force outside of ourselves that demands that we reach out and help those who are weaker than us, those whom we have only heard about through the written and spoken word, something which the rest of the animal kingdom cannot do.

Isn't it sad that even in this day and age that basic opposition to evolution is still usually founded on 'You mean I'm just another dirty animal? No you can't be right, I'm definitely better than them!'

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jaaska 0]

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I find it odd that it is generally Christians, not Jews, that believe in creationism. Or have I just not been exposed to fundamentalist Jews?

Well. I thought the Vatican made it stand pretty clear about the creationism and ID:

It's not real science! Do not mix science and religion!

Now - and I don't want to be rude in any way - how is it possible that even the Vatican rejects all mambo jambo and people ask questions like: "Which is better - evolution or creationism?".... Gee! Grow up!

Would it just be better to keep the faith stuff and the science stuff separated?

1) The evolution theory - theory of science -> science stuff

2) Creationism - based on bible -> faith stuff

Do not mix them!

[NCclimber 0]

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It's great watching creationsists argue about science, because it's clear that they haven't actually done any real reading on the subject for the most part. The one's that do realize what a crock of shit original creation theory is, so now we get creation theory lite, otherwise known as intelligent design. It's a tired attempt to try to incorporate the bits of science that they can no longer dispute, such as the age of the earth, and the development of the genome. It's still the same old bullshit though.

Still, it beats doing any real thinking though. Once people have signed on to the big lie of religion, it's easy to radicalize them and sell them anything. I shall change this view only when I see an atheist strap on a bomb vest because of their lack of belief.

But I digess, as I like to do. Now back to your regular programming.

Kallend seems to be big on pointing out fallacies. Is this a red herring?

[skysaintj 0]

.....send me 1000 transition fossil pics of human evolution from being a fish apparently to what we are today and i'll buy into your macro-evolution theory cause surely if dinosaurs bones could have stood the test of time some of my dads dads dad Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads whatever he was etc..'s bones should have been found somewhere ..?? ...well at least one then ? No ? How is that possible !!! ....................................micro evolution is possible and i'd rather believe i was created by a divine creative loving energy than the evolved from soup that got wacked by lightning and eureka ! there we were bullshit theory

If at first, the idea is not absurd, then there is no hope for it

[jcd11235 0]

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micro evolution is possible

There is no micro evolution or macro evolution, only evolution.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[jakee 1,255]

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and i'd rather believe i was created by a divine creative loving energy than the evolved from soup that got wacked by lightning and eureka ! there we were bullshit theory

Exactly - you'd rather believe, and therefore you're going to ignore anything that might make you feel a little less special.

Y'know what? I'd rather believe humans are always nice to each other - but I don't go around denying the holocaust. You shouldn't shape your view of reality around what makes you feel nice and fuzzy inside.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[pirana 0]

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.....send me 1000 transition fossil pics of human evolution from being a fish apparently to what we are today and i'll buy into your macro-evolution theory cause surely if dinosaurs bones could have stood the test of time some of my dads dads dad Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads Dads dads dads dads dads dads whatever he was etc..'s bones should have been found somewhere ..?? ...well at least one then ? No ? How is that possible !!! ....................................micro evolution is possible and i'd rather believe i was created by a divine creative loving energy than the evolved from soup that got wacked by lightning and eureka ! there we were bullshit theory

Your post proves the weakness of your belief. You discredit evolution not based on any evidence, but based on your hopes and desires. For emotional reasons you reject the evidence.

The fossil history is more than sufficient to support evolution. Visit some natural history museums. Better yet, start with a good primer; something along the lines of Cosmos, but more recent.

The gaps in the record of the rocks are nuances debated by the scholars of the subject; none of them even come close to being sufficient to discredit evolution.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[pirana 0]

Also, for a thorough understanding of how the science is actually carried out, consider reading Just a Theory.

It is a great read for anyone looking to understand the process of distinguishing fact from fiction. The topic at hand (and therefore emotion) has no place. It is all about the structure of discovery.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[skysaintj 0]

Evolution exists ! for sure and i believe in it to a certain extent , but my dad was no ape were yours ? ...so i'll brake it down how i perceive it

...Macro-evolution : we were nothing really maybe a little grain of sand but then spontaneously evolved over billions of years into a amino acid and then millions later into a 1 celled organism which then started to devide became a fish and then this and then some freak and then some freak and then an ape which then opened a lucky packet and got himself a soul and called himself HUMAN !

Micro-evolution : slowly adapting to your current environment but never becoming another species like freakshow on cable that ate to much uranium !

so am i still a creationist ? or how would you label me

If at first, the idea is not absurd, then there is no hope for it

[NCclimber 0]

Could someone please tell me how life began on this planet? Is there any kind of consensus in the scientific community beyond "we just don't know"? Has anyone made an acceptable case, that meets the supposedly rigorous standards of the scientific community? A theory that has held up over time?

[jakee 1,255]

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so am i still a creationist ? or how would you label me

Intentionally blind to the evidence.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[skysaintj 0]

theory to what it might have been crap !

there are not one fossil that beyond a shadow of a doubt prove macro-evolution ... if there is atteach now please

If at first, the idea is not absurd, then there is no hope for it

[jaaska 0]

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Evolution exists ! for sure and i believe in it to a certain extent , but my dad was no ape were yours ? ...so i'll brake it down how i perceive it

...Macro-evolution : we were nothing really maybe a little grain of sand but then spontaneously evolved over billions of years into a amino acid and then millions later into a 1 celled organism which then started to devide became a fish and then this and then some freak and then some freak and then an ape which then opened a lucky packet and got himself a soul and called himself HUMAN !

Micro-evolution : slowly adapting to your current environment but never becoming another species like freakshow on cable that ate to much uranium !

so am i still a creationist ? or how would you label me

Now, that's just funny! Micro-evolution in my... UPS...

Now - suppose that a species "slowly adapted to the current environment". When did it know when to stop evolving?

I mean - suppose this animal had a cousin, who moved elsewhere and "slowly adapted to the current environment", too. After a while (ok... so, after a while means closer to million years) this once same species had "micro-evolved" too far to procreate with the first one. TZADAA! We have new species - the tree of evolution has a new branch

[skysaintj 0]

bhwahahahhehehehe ok that's it then !

If at first, the idea is not absurd, then there is no hope for it

[pajarito 0]

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I mean - suppose this animal had a cousin, who moved elsewhere and "slowly adapted to the current environment", too. After a while (ok... so, after a while means closer to million years) this once same species had "micro-evolved" too far to procreate with the first one. TZADAA! We have new species - the tree of evolution has a new branch

No new information added - No new species.

[jcd11235 0]

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Evolution exists ! for sure and i believe in it to a certain extent , but my dad was no ape were yours ?

Evolution does not claim that your or my dad were apes. Evolution says we share a common ancestor with apes.

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...Macro-evolution : we were nothing really maybe a little grain of sand but then spontaneously evolved over billions of years (If something happens spontaneously, it doesn't happen over billions of years - jcd) into a amino acid and then millions later into a 1 celled organism which then started to devide became a fish and then this and then some freak and then some freak and then an ape which then opened a lucky packet and got himself a soul and called himself HUMAN !

Micro-evolution : slowly adapting to your current environment but never becoming another species like freakshow on cable that ate to much uranium !

What you are terming micro evolution is the same as what you are terming macro evolution. The difference is the timeframe of observation, not the process.

What is a soul?

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[jaaska 0]

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I mean - suppose this animal had a cousin, who moved elsewhere and "slowly adapted to the current environment", too. After a while (ok... so, after a while means closer to million years) this once same species had "micro-evolved" too far to procreatec with the first one. TZADAA! We have new species - the tree of evolution has a new branch

No new information added - No new species.

?!? Ok - what do you mean "no new information added?" - I just don't get it, maybe I'm dumb or something...

If there was no new information - that is, the species would share similar DNA, they would be the same species. Now, in my example that would not be the case. The two new species would in fact have different "information" (as you called it) to their common ancestor...

So again, maybe I'm just dumb, but could you please explain your comment...?

[jakee 1,255]

You know what I've just been thinking about?

That creationists and IDists are believers in the absolute mother of all conspiracy theories. All these objections they keep raising "How come there are still Gorilla's if we descended from apes?" or "How did hedgehogs 'decide' to grow spines?" or "Why is the fossil record incomplete?"

Do they really think they are the first people to ask these questions? Do they honestly believe they could present them to a Biology Professor and he'd reply "Well fuck me, I'd never thought of that!" Of course they don't.

The reason they believe these are still valid, unexamined issues is because every single evolutionary biologist in the world is a god hating atheist! Thats right - not only are they all atheists but they are commited enough to the cause to spend their entire lives fabricating evidence for the purposes of brainwashing our young christians!

But where does the money come from? Research is expensive, so we need to expand our conspiracy once more. All the government funding, all the research grants, all the university investment, all the private trust funds, all the Nobel prizes must be authorised by godless communist atheists intent on undermining societies morals.

Wow. Knocks "The government organised 9/11" off the top of the tree doesn't it?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[billvon 2,400]

>send me 1000 transition fossil pics of human evolution from being a
>fish apparently to what we are today . . .

http://www.amazon.com/Ancestors-Tale-Pilgrimage-Dawn-Evolution/dp/061861916X

They take credit cards.

> and i'd rather believe i was created by a divine creative loving energy
>than the evolved from soup that got wacked by lightning . . .

Right. And centuries ago people would rather believe they were the center of the universe, not just sitting on a planet (not even an exceptionally large planet) around an unexceptional star, which is just one of billions in a smallish galaxy. Science, however, explores what is, not what we would like to believe.

[NCclimber 0]

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And centuries ago people would rather believe they were the center of the universe.

And centuries from now, people will laugh at many of today's widely accepted theories.

[billvon 2,400]

>No new information added - No new species.

Every generation of _any_ species adds information. 99.9999% of it is junk; random changes/mutations of no consequence. The remaining .0001% does do something. Even then it's usually bad - it results in a greater propensity for stomach cancer, or heart attacks or something.

But every once in a great while that mutation gives you a slightly better resistance to HIV or cancer. And if that new trait helps that person survive and reproduce, then it is propagated. New information has been added.

Multiply that by a few billion years, and you have fish evolving into people.

Next time you're in the Grand Canyon, take a look at that little tiny trickle of water at the bottom. How can that little bit of water dig that immense chasm? Because small forces over very large times produce immense results.

[billvon 2,400]

>And centuries from now, people will laugh at many of today's widely accepted theories.

Perhaps. Does that mean you don't believe the earth is round, given that people in the future may laugh at today's accepted theories?

[steveorino 7]

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Next time you're in the Grand Canyon, take a look at that little tiny trickle of water at the bottom. How can that little bit of water dig that immense chasm? Because small forces over very large times produce immense results.

I'm not a creationist, but didn't Mt. St. Helens teach us nature can produce immense results in a fraction of a second?

steveOrino

[billvon 2,400]

>but didn't Mt. St. Helens teach us nature can produce immense
>results in a fraction of a second?

Yep - and a meteor could produce even bigger results much more quickly. (A caveat to the above is that huge forces can produce immense results quickly as well.) Fortunately for us, most change on this planet takes place much more slowly.

[gjhdiver 0]

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so am i still a creationist ? or how would you label me

I'd label you with "return to sender" based on the confused rambling of your posts.

If there was a god, he'd have to have a busy returns dept to handle all the breakdowns in his followers.

Just queue up quietly behind Foley and Haggard and they'll get to you when they can.