Neo Cons Bail Out, Army Ed Lashes Back

[crwtom 0]

After the Bush Admin started blaming its generals for the debacle in
Iraq to preserve the Rummy Mummy the frantic finger pointing
among the war mongers continues.

Now even those who concocted the ideology and rationale the war
and were pressing the admin for a invasion from day one are
bailing out - read "Former hawks now say they wouldn't back Iraq war"

The military is also pointing back as you can read the Editorial
Time for Rumsfeld to go in the Army Times.

The joke about Barney being the last supporter of GWB on Iraq
and Rumsfeld starts sounding more and more real.

Cheers, T

*******************************************************************
Fear causes hesitation, and hesitation will cause your worst fears to come true

[kallend 1,647]

Quote

After the Bush Admin started blaming its generals for the debacle in
Iraq to preserve the Rummy Mummy the frantic finger pointing
among the war mongers continues.

Now even those who concocted the ideology and rationale the war
and were pressing the admin for a invasion from day one are
bailing out - read "Former hawks now say they wouldn't back Iraq war"

The military is also pointing back as you can read the Editorial
Time for Rumsfeld to go in the Army Times.

The joke about Barney being the last supporter of GWB on Iraq
and Rumsfeld starts sounding more and more real.

Cheers, T

So now the Army Times has had enough! Cool. If they have any sense, the voters will say they've had enough too.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[mnealtx 0]

Damn...y'all are right!!!

I'm not voting for Bush *or* Rumsfeld in '08!!!

Seriously, though - if the troops on the ground have lost faith in Rumsfeld's ability to lead them, then it's time to take a hard look at whether or not he needs to be SecDef.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[akarunway 1]

Quote

Damn...y'all are right!!!

I'm not voting for Bush *or* Rumsfeld in '08!!!

Seriously, though - if the troops on the ground have lost faith in Rumsfeld's ability to lead them, then it's time to take a hard look at whether or not he needs to be SecDef.

Goddamn. Say it ain't so

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[kallend 1,647]

More Neo-cons are bailing.

What is it they say about rats and sinking ships?

another article

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[crwtom 0]

Quote

Damn...y'all are right!!!

I'm not voting for Bush *or* Rumsfeld in '08!!!
.

or anyone else who he right now still saying they're doing an A-OK job.

(which would me a much longer list)

or anyone who would create a such a mess

(which you never did, I'm sure)


Cheers, T

*******************************************************************
Fear causes hesitation, and hesitation will cause your worst fears to come true

[billvon 2,433]

>then it's time to take a hard look at whether or not he needs to be SecDef.

It doesn't matter. Until Bush's term ends, or he is removed from office, Rumsfeld WILL be SecDef - no matter what happens in Iraq, or what the troops think of him. Bush is, after all, The Decider, and he has Decided.

[Amazon 7]

Quote

I'm not voting for Bush *or* Rumsfeld in '08!!!

How about those who have been rubberstamping this shit from the start...

[DaVinci 0]

Quote

What is it they say about rats and sinking ships?

You mean like all the Dems that voted to allow the use of force, voted for the patriot act ect and then flipped when it was no longer popular?

Nothing new here folks, people both left and right voted for the popular thing and now that it lost it's shine are voting popular again against it.

[Andy9o8 0]

And, of course, The Powers That Be remain totally clueless:

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/11/04/rumsfeld.departure/index.html

Quote

White House spokesman Tony Snow said the president was told about the editorial, and his reaction was to "shrug it off."

Defense Department spokesman Bryan Whitman downplayed the "new chorus of criticism."

[It] is actually old news and does not include commanders in the field, who remain committed to the mission," Whitman said.

[kallend 1,647]

Quote

Quote

What is it they say about rats and sinking ships?

You mean like all the Dems that voted to allow the use of force, voted for the patriot act ect and then flipped when it was no longer popular?

Nothing new here folks, people both left and right voted for the popular thing and now that it lost it's shine are voting popular again against it.

Are you also in favor of Rummy's resignation?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[DaVinci 0]

Quote

Are you also in favor of Rummy's resignation?

Not my call to make. But I think the whole Iraq war mess is going to go nowhere. Replacing Rummy will not change anything since Bush is still in office. Bush would replace Rummy with someone else who would move in the same direction.

So while I would love to get the troops out, removing Rummy will not make that happen.

I see our job in Iraq as done. We removed Saddam, they have a Constitiution, they have people who are trained and can train others to defend Iraq. Of course as soon as we leave it will fall into civil war. But us staying is only going to delay that, and democracy can not be forced, it must be earned.

[billvon 2,433]

>Replacing Rummy will not change anything since Bush is still in office.
>Bush would replace Rummy with someone else who would move in the
>same direction.

Not so sure about that. Despite Bush's rhetoric, Cheney and Rumsfeld have made a lot of the decisions over how to prosecute the war effort. I think that replacing either one of them would result in a significant change in the course of the war - even if it didn't result in an immediate 180 degree course change.

[matthewcline 0]

Whitman is stupid. Of course the Commanders on the ground are committed to the mission, their Service Members are serving on the same damn mission!

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[shropshire 0]

What is the mission?

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[matthewcline 0]

The currrent mission we are concerned with is keeping the Service members safe and bringing them all home, after that do you really care?

I will be honest, we don't really think about the "why" any more. We do what we have to do to get back as a group, complete group. Politics we leave to the politicians and vote like any other citizen on how we feel.

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[shropshire 0]

I like the 1st bit. It's as it should be.

The 2nd bit is more scary.

Keep y'head down.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[matthewcline 0]

Thanks for the well wishes, but I am home and soon to retire so I will forward that to a Service member over seas if it is OK.

Don't get me wrong, we don't shurk any duty or cut corners (hence the death rate), but we also don't dwell on the why of politics.

I hope my being a voter didn't scare you! It scares my Dad though, he said it makes him feel "old".

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

>then it's time to take a hard look at whether or not he needs to be SecDef.

It doesn't matter. Until Bush's term ends, or he is removed from office, Rumsfeld WILL be SecDef - no matter what happens in Iraq, or what the troops think of him. Bush is, after all, The Decider, and he has Decided.

SecDef serves at the will of the President. That said, Rummy *could* say "I'm resigning no matter what" and Bush wouldn't be able to do much about it.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

Quote

Damn...y'all are right!!!

I'm not voting for Bush *or* Rumsfeld in '08!!!

Seriously, though - if the troops on the ground have lost faith in Rumsfeld's ability to lead them, then it's time to take a hard look at whether or not he needs to be SecDef.

Goddamn. Say it ain't so

Please note I said "if".

Also, it's important to note that the "X Times" military papers are NOT published by the military. The Defenselink website and the "Stars and Stripes" paper are much better (and balanced) views of the military and where they stand on issues.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[SkyDekker 1,143]

Quote

Don't get me wrong, we don't shurk any duty or cut corners (hence the death rate), but we also don't dwell on the why of politics.

Do service members even know what the goal of the mission is? I can understand that everybodies first goal is to go home safe. But, should they not know what they are fighting for? How can you achieve a goal if the majority of members don't know what that goal is?

[kallend 1,647]

Quote

Quote

Don't get me wrong, we don't shurk any duty or cut corners (hence the death rate), but we also don't dwell on the why of politics.

Do service members even know what the goal of the mission is? I can understand that everybodies first goal is to go home safe. But, should they not know what they are fighting for? How can you achieve a goal if the majority of members don't know what that goal is?

"A nation-building corps from America. Absolutely not"
"I want to be a War President"
"Mission Accomplished"
"Bring 'em On"
"Stay the Course"

moving targets can be so difficult.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Don't get me wrong, we don't shurk any duty or cut corners (hence the death rate), but we also don't dwell on the why of politics.

Do service members even know what the goal of the mission is? I can understand that everybodies first goal is to go home safe. But, should they not know what they are fighting for? How can you achieve a goal if the majority of members don't know what that goal is?

"A nation-building corps from America. Absolutely not"
"I want to be a War President"
"Mission Accomplished"
"Bring 'em On"
"Stay the Course"

moving targets can be so difficult.

Quote

I actually did vote for the $87 billion before I voted against it.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[billvon 2,433]

>I actually did vote for the $87 billion before I voted against it.

I voted against Arnold last time because I thought he was going to run roughshod over the legislature and make a hash of things. And he did; he made some very arrogant and boneheaded moves. But unlike most politicians, he learned from his mistakes, apologized for his actions and has actually become a better governor because of it - so I'm going to vote for him this time. It's not often you get a politician with the ability to learn.

So, I actually did vote against him before I voted for him.

[mnealtx 0]

I'm glad he's improved - bet the papers are still full of "Governator" stories, though!

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706