Innocent Man Sent to Syria and Tortured, Probe Finds

[Darius11 12]

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Innocent Man Sent to Syria and Tortured, Probe Finds
Canadian Report Faults Mounties, U.S. for Deportation
By ROB GILLIES, AP

TORONTO (Sept. 19) - The United States "very likely" sent a Canadian software engineer to Syria, where he was tortured, based on the false accusation by Canadian authorities that he was suspected of links to al-Qaida, according to a new government report.
http://articles.news.aol.com/news/_a/innocent-man-sent-to-syria-and-tortured/20060918232609990016?ncid=NWS00010000000001

I really don’t like it when our government decides to take people and send them out to be tortured.

When we do things like this how dare we speak of freedom and human rights when we are one of the violators.

We really need to take a good look at our selves and our national ethics. We are on a spiral downward.
If we really view our selves as the beacon of freedom and criticizes other nations we should first lead by example not by hypocrisy.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Andy9o8 0]

Agreed.
100%.

[JohnRich 4]

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I really don’t like it when our government Muslims decides to take people and send them out to be tortured. massacre thousands of innocent people.

When we do things like this how dare we speak of freedom and human rights when we are one of the violators.

We really need to take a good look at our selves and our
national ethics. We are on a spiral downward.
If we really view our selves as the beacon of freedom and criticizes other nations we should first lead by example not by hypocrisy.

There, I fixed it for you.

Oh, and by the way, the U.S. just sent him to Syria. It's Syria (i.e. Muslims) that tortured him. Do try and keep your finger-pointing straight.

[matthewcline 0]

I too agree 100%, so where is the innocent man the US tortured in the story?

I see he was tortured by a country that follows his own religion, but not the one tortured by the US.

I missed it please enlighten me. I have been a student of religions for 20+ years, 14 + devoted to Islam, I see no reason to attack the US for torture, unjust deportation, maybe. But why would we actually want to argue the actual mistake? Oh yeah it doesn't fit the swayed and jaded point of view.

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[sundevil777 94]

The AP is now reporting that Canada gave bad info that he was linked to AQ.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[JohnRich 4]

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The AP is now reporting that Canada gave bad info that he was linked to AQ.

Damn those evil Canadians!

Darius doesn't like us holding the terrorist-suspect prisoners in Gitmo. Well, this one we sent back to his home country. And now Darius doesn't like us sending terrorist-suspects back home. So, Darius, exactly what would you like America to do with them?

Oh, and do you have any condemnation for Syria for committing the acts of torture?

There were three nations involved in this man's treatment. Canada, which gave bad intelligence info about him. The U.S. which simply deported him to his home country. And Syria, which tortured him. And yet your criticism is only against the United States, which did relatively nothing wrong to the man, compared to Canada, and especially Syria. So, Darius, why this selective bias against the U.S.?

[akarunway 1]

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The AP is now reporting that Canada gave bad info that he was linked to AQ.

Damn those evil Canadians!

Darius doesn't like us holding the terrorist-suspect prisoners in Gitmo. Well, this one we sent back to his home country. And now Darius doesn't like us sending terrorist-suspects back home. So, Darius, exactly what would you like America to do with them?

Oh, and do you have any condemnation for Syria for committing the acts of torture?

There were three nations involved in this man's treatment. Canada, which gave bad intelligence info about him. The U.S. which simply deported him to his home country. And Syria, which tortured him. And yet your criticism is only against the United States, which did relatively nothing wrong to the man, compared to Canada, and especially Syria. So, Darius, why this selective bias against the U.S.?

SO. Knowing Syria would torture him we send him there. Why not interrogate him here? Just like the CIA secret prisons we have overseas. (so they can do what they want to w/o violating U.S law. (Screw international law eh?) Bunch a bullshit if you ask me. How would you feel if YOU were the innocent party being tortured?

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[Lindsey 0]

I agree with you 100%. Makes me sick.

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[Darius11 12]

We sent them to other countries to get tortured.

So I guess if hire someone to kill you I am not to blame at all only the person pulling the trigger is.

Wow that’s a really smart way of looking at things.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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We sent them to other countries to get tortured.

I'm confused. You're upset with the USA because Syria tortured one of their own citizens? Sure you can be pissed off at Canada (in fact I'm beginning to think that more Americans need to get pissed off at Canada since a sizeable portion of the ever growing by the day middle eastern immigrant population of Canada is very very anti-American and pro Al-Queda ... watch out for Quebecistan). But Syria was the country who tortured their own citizen, not the USA.

Blame Canada ... for sure.

Blame Syria ... well we know you won't do that.

But Blame the USA? ... Huh? I'm confused.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[JohnRich 4]

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We sent them to other countries to get tortured.

We didn't tell Syria that they had to torture him. They did that on their own.

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So I guess if hire someone to kill you I am not to blame at all only the person pulling the trigger is.

You would apparently blame the taxi cab driver that transported the hit man to his target location.

You didn't answer my questions:

1) Darius doesn't like us holding the terrorist-suspect prisoners in Gitmo. Well, this one we sent back to his home country. And now Darius doesn't like us sending terrorist-suspects back home. So, Darius, exactly what would you like America to do with them?

2) Oh, and do you have any condemnation for Syria for committing the acts of torture?

3) There were three nations involved in this man's treatment. Canada, which gave bad intelligence info about him. The U.S. which simply deported him to his home country. And Syria, which tortured him. And yet your criticism is only against the United States, which did relatively nothing wrong to the man, compared to Canada, and especially Syria. So, Darius, why this selective bias against the U.S.?

[Casurf1978 0]

I cant access the article, looks like it was taken down. But doesn't Canadian mean he is a citizen of Canada and should be protected under the laws of that country and not deported to a country where he will be tortured. I'm a citizen of the USA but born abroad. Let's say for a second I'm in Mexico and get accused of being a terrorist. Where should I be deported to? The country I was born in or the country I'm a citizen of.

[Andy9o8 0]

John, I'm sorry, but you've really got this wrong. We're not NOT condemning Syria. Of course, what Syria did to this guy is inhumane and inexcusable. But we're making a separate point.

Since 9/11, the US has engaged in a policy of treating terrorism suspects in a manner that is calculated to evade and avoid the rule of US law and the standards of international law, as well as our own standards of decency. Deeming detainees neither combatants subject to the Geneva Convention, NOR criminal defendants subject to civilian due process of law is just one example of this.

Well, this is another example, and it's known as "rendering". It's where the US, knowing that under US law – as well as our and our NATO allies' standards of decency – cannot (or I should say "should not") directly engage in torturing of prisoners to extract information from them, turns them over to another country where they care much less about such moral niceness and are perfectly willing to torture prisoners during interrogation. County "X" interrogates the prisoner turned over to it by the US; then the "intelligence" extracted thereby is shared with the US; but in the meantime, the US can invoke the plausible deniability that "We had no knowledge that Syria was going to torture this guy. And we're shocked, shocked, that it did so." Thus, US complicity with such torture of prisoners can be plausibly denied.

It's completely bankrupt, both legally and morally.

[sundevil777 94]

Is there good reason to believe that Syria is cooperating with us by sharing intelligence? If not, then your charge makes no sense.

I really don't know, but had suspected the opposite was true.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[Andy9o8 0]

I have read stories – no, I don't have a link or cite right at my fingertips right now – that in response to a lot of insurgents crossing into Iraq from Syria, the US quietly told the Syrians: "You know, we can fuck you guys up pretty good, too – or, you can start policing your border with Iraq better and scratch our back a little." – in response to which the Syrians quietly started to pass some terrorism intelligence on to the Americans.

You'd be surprised how much certain countries with which we share mutual hostility in public, deal with us behind the scenes.

It's a dirty business, guys.

[Andrewwhyte 1]

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I cant access the article, looks like it was taken down. But doesn't Canadian mean he is a citizen of Canada and should be protected under the laws of that country and not deported to a country where he will be tortured. I'm a citizen of the USA but born abroad. Let's say for a second I'm in Mexico and get accused of being a terrorist. Where should I be deported to? The country I was born in or the country I'm a citizen of.

It's not as cut and dry as that. Mr. Araar carried duel citizenship; Canadian and Syrian. The fact that he was in transit to Canada when he was arrested in the US, denied his right to Habeas Corpus and sent to the other country he was a citizen of does however leave the US in a position of culpability.
It seems clear that the US was doing Canada's dirty work sending this guy to Syria for the really dirty work.
In US law if you commit a crime and your accomplice kills someone, you are culpable. US officials were guilty of breaking US laws (Due Process) and someone got tortured. I think Darius is right to criticize the US.

[SkyDekker 1,154]

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It's not as cut and dry as that. Mr. Araar carried duel citizenship; Canadian and Syrian. The fact that he was in transit to Canada when he was arrested in the US, denied his right to Habeas Corpus and sent to the other country he was a citizen of does however leave the US in a position of culpability.
It seems clear that the US was doing Canada's dirty work sending this guy to Syria for the really dirty work.
In US law if you commit a crime and your accomplice kills someone, you are culpable. US officials were guilty of breaking US laws (Due Process) and someone got tortured. I think Darius is right to criticize the US.

Shhh, stop making sense.

I have strong criticism for the RCMP and Syria. To claim that the US were just innocent bystanders is a little silly, JR and others.

[jakee 1,280]

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You would apparently blame the taxi cab driver that transported the hit man to his target location.

If the cab driver knew what was going to happen? Yes, he would undoubtedly be an accessory to murder.

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2) Oh, and do you have any condemnation for Syria for committing the acts of torture?

Absolutely. But if your acceptable standard for the conduct of the US is "We're not quite as bad as Syria" then .

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[JohnRich 4]

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Oh, and do you have any condemnation for Syria for committing the acts of torture?

Absolutely.

I'm waiting to hear that from Darius. I want to see if he can bring himself to criticize a fellow Muslim. Over a matter of torture, it should be a no-brainer, but he's oddly silent.

[SkyDekker 1,154]

He is probably waiting for you to condemn the US for sending this man to Syria for torture. But, you are oddly silent on that.

[Darius11 12]

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Oh, and do you have any condemnation for Syria for committing the acts of torture?

Absolutely.

I'm waiting to hear that from Darius. I want to see if he can bring himself to criticize a fellow Muslim. Over a matter of torture, it should be a no-brainer, but he's oddly silent.

John I think anyone willing to torture another humane being should be punished and jailed no matter what religion. So I think it is discussing that the Syrian government would agree to such a thing.


I am surprised that you keep on dodging the truth or try to bring up excuses for the US government. Like saying there just the Taxi when we do this to get information and we send people to countries like that knowing they will be tortured and not only knowing that is the only reason we send some people to other countries to get tortured.


One thing I have told you before but you seem to have selective vision and comprehension when it comes to my posts. My personal belief is that the US is the best place on this planet. I also think you are dead wrong for holding the US to the same standard that we hold Syria or a terrorist organization, or any other undemocratic country. We are supposed to be better then them.

The fact that other countries torture, or murder civilians doesn’t mean it give us the green light. We say we are the beacon of democracy, We believe Americans are just people, and therefore have a just government. Sending people out to be tortured does not fit with my view of America I am sorry it fits with yours.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain