DJL 232 #26 September 6, 2006 QuoteThe "war on drugs" simply hasn't worked. I know tons of law enforcement types, mostly Coast Guard personel who feel like marijuna busts are the biggest wastes of time and not worth the risk. The only upside is that it sometimes points them towards more damaging drugs. Indeed, education - especially by the family - is the key. All most kids know is that weed is cool and their parents don't want them to do it."I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #27 September 6, 2006 QuoteI would have problem if they started to legalize all drugs, because what if someone gets twicked out for 2 weeks straight, they are not only endangering themselves but other people too. Think about it, cocaine and meth addicts searching(aka stealing) for more money to feed their addiction. Paranoid people thinking that trees are coming to kill you.. most of the crime is associated with the high prices thanks to the legal issues. The buyers go broke and steal for it. The sellers kill each other over the territory to sell it. And the ATF/DEA types kill anything in the middle. All that's left is abusers running about, and it's at least a huge imrprovement on what was there before. But it might be displaced from the hood where most of us don't see it out into the suburbs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
micro 0 #28 September 6, 2006 QuoteIndeed, education - especially by the family - is the key. All most kids know is that weed is cool and their parents don't want them to do it. Nightingale and you are certainly right on there. I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #29 September 6, 2006 You'd think we'd have learned by now that prohibition of substances like this and persecution against victimless crimes doesn't work. Never has." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jshatzkin 0 #30 September 6, 2006 QuoteMarijuana grows out of the ground. Can God be wrong? Meth doesn't grow out of the ground. Powder cocaine doesn't grow out of the ground (not in that form, at least). Marijuana has to be processed to be in a usable form. With your reasoning, cocaine and heroin are also "natural"-. These plants are processed before use as well. Hell, a lot of drugs are naturally grown and then processed for use. That does not make them safe or okay in any way. Another point: The political and social history of why certain drugs became illegal to begin with is very interesting,..and some based in racist policy over 100 years old (especially for Marijuana and opium). We often wonder why alcohol is still legal: most popular theories point to the fact that alcohol (and tobacco) is traditionally a European "white" drug. That's the reason alcohol prohibition did not work. Prohibition on drugs originally used and introduced by minority and immigrant populations were quickly banned. I took several classes on the history of drug policy in college, and it goes WAY deeper than just "drugs are bad, m'kay". If that were simply the truth, then alcohol and tobacco would fall into those categories as well.Jen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #31 September 6, 2006 Quote Sure, whatever, try eating any mushrooms you come accross. Just eat few of them!....and maybe you can chew on some thallium, or drink some arsenic, pickup some nutmegs, and wild berries!!!. and good luck Why would I do that? Just because it grows out of the ground doesn't mean I'm going to ingest it. BTW - none of the items mentioned by you are illegal.We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GTAVercetti 0 #32 September 6, 2006 QuoteQuoteMarijuana grows out of the ground. Can God be wrong? Meth doesn't grow out of the ground. Powder cocaine doesn't grow out of the ground (not in that form, at least). Marijuana has to be processed to be in a usable form. With your reasoning, cocaine and heroin are also "natural"-. These plants are processed before use as well. Hell, a lot of drugs are naturally grown and then processed for use. That does not make them safe or okay in any way. While I agree with your point (that natural is not always a good thing), the only processing marijuana requires is drying. Which you can hardly call a process (like cocaine or meth) unless you are using some complicated aparatus to dry.Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #33 September 6, 2006 Quote Marijuana has to be processed to be in a usable form. How so? I disagree with you on this one. Quote With your reasoning, cocaine and heroin are also "natural"-. Not at all. Cocaine is derived from cocoa leaves by soaking it in industrial solvents. Heroin is derived from opimum plants, using a process I'm not familiar with. Quote Hell, a lot of drugs are naturally grown and then processed for use. That does not make them safe or okay in any way. Agreed. Stay away from them.We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
micro 0 #34 September 6, 2006 QuoteYou'd think we'd have learned by now that prohibition of substances like this and persecution against victimless crimes doesn't work. Never has. But there is the argument to be made that drug use/abuse isn't a victimless crime: look at parents who neglect their kids while using (applies to alcohol too for that matter). Or harming people while driving under the influence... I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
micro 0 #35 September 6, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteMarijuana grows out of the ground. Can God be wrong? Meth doesn't grow out of the ground. Powder cocaine doesn't grow out of the ground (not in that form, at least). Marijuana has to be processed to be in a usable form. With your reasoning, cocaine and heroin are also "natural"-. These plants are processed before use as well. Hell, a lot of drugs are naturally grown and then processed for use. That does not make them safe or okay in any way. While I agree with your point (that natural is not always a good thing), the only processing marijuana requires is drying. Which you can hardly call a process (like cocaine or meth) unless you are using some complicated aparatus to dry. Well, just don't roll your doobs in formaldahyde (sp?) before you paper them and smoke 'em. That would be REALLY bad! I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nanook 1 #36 September 6, 2006 QuoteI know tons of law enforcement types, mostly Coast Guard personel who feel like marijuna busts are the biggest wastes of time and not worth the risk. The only upside is that it sometimes points them towards more damaging drugs. I agree. Nothing sucks like finally getting a "Fast boat" over and finding out it's only filled with Pot, but not because I feel it should be legal. I think Pot should be prescription only. Though that Kaiser Permanente study shows the Mortality issue is inconclusive, it does show that Pot use does contribute to and associated with deviant behavior. We already have Alchohol, why add an extra problem?_____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #37 September 6, 2006 Quote associated with deviant behavior Now, that's a phrase Is it in the DSM?We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gkc1436 3 #38 September 6, 2006 > it does show that Pot use does contribute to and associated with deviant behavior. how about..... it does show that Parachute use does contribute to and is associated with deviant behavior. it does show that Packing Parachutes does contribute to and is associated with deviant behavior. it does show that Hook turns do contribute to and are associated with deviant behavior. it does show that Dropzones contribute to and are associated with deviant behavior. would you agree with these? g Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GTAVercetti 0 #39 September 6, 2006 What about freeflying? We all know freeflyers are deviants.Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nanook 1 #40 September 6, 2006 I didnt realize Parachuting was an illegal activity._____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GTAVercetti 0 #41 September 6, 2006 QuoteI didnt realize Parachuting was an illegal activity. I think the point was that we have no idea where you got your statement about pot use and deviant behavior so we picked skydiving-related things to put into the same idea.. Think of skydiving like a pancake with a bunny on its head.Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #42 September 6, 2006 QuoteQuoteYou'd think we'd have learned by now that prohibition of substances like this and persecution against victimless crimes doesn't work. Never has. But there is the argument to be made that drug use/abuse isn't a victimless crime: look at parents who neglect their kids while using (applies to alcohol too for that matter). Or harming people while driving under the influence... Bad argument. Next you'll be saying guns should be illegal becuase some parents have shot their children.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #43 September 6, 2006 Quote I didnt realize Parachuting was an illegal activity. Exactly! Our country allows for "personal responsibility" with skydiving. It doesn't do so for marijuana use.We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vortexring 0 #44 September 6, 2006 Going off a bit here, but perhaps it may be worth considering that I've never came across anyone, who, having used cannabis fairly often, hadn't tried other illegal drugs. And for a lot of people this is the beginning of the 'end.' I've seen most of my childhood friends fuck their entire lives up on drugs, where it all began with smoking hash. Hence, continue to keep the drug illegal. 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
micro 0 #45 September 6, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteYou'd think we'd have learned by now that prohibition of substances like this and persecution against victimless crimes doesn't work. Never has. But there is the argument to be made that drug use/abuse isn't a victimless crime: look at parents who neglect their kids while using (applies to alcohol too for that matter). Or harming people while driving under the influence... Bad argument. Next you'll be saying guns should be illegal becuase some parents have shot their children. No it's not. Drugs are mind altering substances, rendering you incapable in many instances to fulfill certain basic tasks that you may be required to perfom safely for the benefit of others. Guns don't have that effect on the central nervous system of people. If your incorrect extension of this argument held true, then anything could be declared illegal if it was accidentally used to kill another person... a hammar, a chainsaw, a kitchen stove, hot water, a bathtub, a water bucket... I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jshatzkin 0 #46 September 6, 2006 QuoteWhile I agree with your point (that natural is not always a good thing), the only processing marijuana requires is drying. Which you can hardly call a process (like cocaine or meth) unless you are using some complicated aparatus to dry. I also add the "smoking" part in the processing of marijuana. You don't simply take a leaf and chew it (unless it's in brownies). Besides, growers have altered, cross-bred and fertilized most crops to increase THC levels, so the plant itself has been altered drastically by human hands. Then you dry the leaves,..and smoke it. My point is, when it goes to your lungs, it is far from its "God grown out of the ground" argument. My only point in that being that the "natural God grown" argument is weak and not really true. What is true is that humans of ALL cultures from the beginning of time have have used plants/drugs in religious/ceremonial/performance enhancing ways and we probably always will. Whether it's coffee to wake up in the morning or Viagra. Like I said before, most drug policy is based in social and political schemas that are too complex to lay out in this thread. Do I think it should be legalized? I don't know. I struggle with it. I don't think it is harmless, but I also think alcohol rivals, if not worse than, marijuana. I think it should definitely be decriminalized to a misdeamenor (unless you are toting 20 lbs of it).Jen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #47 September 6, 2006 Quote anything could be declared illegal if it was accidentally used to kill another person... a hammar, a chainsaw, a kitchen stove, hot water, a bathtub, a water bucket... Good point! How silly to declare any substance or product illegal, when it's misuse that that's the problem. Thanks for pointing that out.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
micro 0 #48 September 6, 2006 QuoteQuote anything could be declared illegal if it was accidentally used to kill another person... a hammar, a chainsaw, a kitchen stove, hot water, a bathtub, a water bucket... Good point! How silly to declare any substance or product illegal, when it's misuse that that's the problem. Thanks for pointing that out. There are products that, by their very nature, are designed to promote misuse and foster dependence. Products that are, in and of themselves addictive, should be regulated, should they not, since they BY DEFINITION, tax the human animal's ability to exercise their volition over said product? I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GTAVercetti 0 #49 September 6, 2006 QuoteGoing off a bit here, but perhaps it may be worth considering that I've never came across anyone, who, having used cannabis fairly often, hadn't tried other illegal drugs. And for a lot of people this is the beginning of the 'end.' I've seen most of my childhood friends fuck their entire lives up on drugs, where it all began with smoking hash. Hence, continue to keep the drug illegal. Did the illegality of hash stop your friends? It did not. And if hash had not have existed, would your friends still be fucked up? I would say there is a good chance. My best friend from childhood is an alcoholic, crack user. He also started with mj. Do I blame pot though? Nope. It was not the DRUG that lead to other drugs...it was my friend's mental issues. Marijuana was merely the first salve to make him feel "better." If marijuana had not been there, it would have been something else.Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nanook 1 #50 September 6, 2006 Okay, you got me. They use "Sociodemographic". I think in any study, especially peer-reviewed, opinionated words are frowned upon. QuoteExactly! Our country allows for "personal responsibility" with skydiving. It doesn't do so for marijuana use My response to the poster concerned using of a legal activity to explain an illegal activity._____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
