The war in Iraq is already lost

[Skyrad 0]

I belive that the war is already lost and its just a matter of how many more will die before we declare 'victory' and leave I feel the world is a more dangerous place for what has happened and the region is more unstable. I also think that this millitary misadventure was about trying to establish Pax Americana and in this respect has also failed and as a result may even lead to the acceleration of the fall of the dollar (which I belive is inevitable). Americas millitary (and Americas self projected moral position as the keepers of freedom and democracy) has been discredited in the eyes of the world and the myth of its strenght has been exposed as such. All in all we'd all be alot better off if it had never happened and now it has its time to pull the plug and leave. What is your view?

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[miked10270 0]

I feel that we were right to effect regime change in Iraq and restore self-determination to the Iraqi People.

Then we should have withdrawn back into Saudi Arabia & Kuwait. That's what we should do now. That way we preserve the force in theatre without being such a soft target for any self-styled sand-kicker with a grudge.

We could also exert almost as much influence from near Iraq as from within.

We could also prepare for some "Winter-Exercises" somewhere suitable on the way home. Somewhere like Rhodesia Zimbabwe.
If ever there was a perfect candidate for a visit by Messrs Abrams, Bradley & Challenger along with their tribe of tame Apache's, Etc... Mugabe HAS to come pretty near the top of the list.

Mike.

Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable.

Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

[billvon 2,435]

Nobody's voting for sending more troops? We just sent another 3500 to stem the violence in the Anbar province. Apparently some towns there have been re-taken by insurgents.

[kallend 1,651]

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I feel that we were right to effect regime change in Iraq and restore self-determination to the Iraqi People.

Then we should have withdrawn back into Saudi Arabia & Kuwait. That's what we should do now. That way we preserve the force in theatre without being such a soft target for any self-styled sand-kicker with a grudge.

We could also exert almost as much influence from near Iraq as from within.

We could also prepare for some "Winter-Exercises" somewhere suitable on the way home. Somewhere like Rhodesia Zimbabwe.
If ever there was a perfect candidate for a visit by Messrs Abrams, Bradley & Challenger along with their tribe of tame Apache's, Etc... Mugabe HAS to come pretty near the top of the list.

Mike.

How much oil does Mugabe have?

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Amazon 7]

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How much oil does Mugabe have?

None so we aint goin there

Zimbabwe possesses rich agricultural resources that allow for the production of sugar, fruit, maize (corn), tobacco, and cattle. In 2002 an estimated 8 percent of the country was cultivated. Forests cover 49 percent of the country, although the logging industry is small and wood cut in Zimbabwe is used mostly for fuel. Zimbabwe is also rich in minerals. Gold has been mined since ancient times, and the country has deposits of chrome, asbestos, and copper, which are found along the Great Dyke.
Microsoft ® Encarta ® 2006. © 1993-2005 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

[Brian3576 0]

i belive that American and English people were lied to by our governments about the real reason they went to war... the real reason would not have got them the backing at the time that they enjoyed and needed

i also think that it was a good idea to get rid of Sadam, but why it's seems to be ok to go into a country because you think their leader is a mass murderer and needs to be taken down, yet leave many more mass murdering dictators still in power around the world is beyond me

so yes, i guess it's all about the oil and always has been

the whole War On Terror is a farce too, just a knee jerk reaction to 9/11. I'm sure the American public demanded action after 9/11, so action is what they got.... whether it's the right action is questionable.

you can't win a War On Terror bacause no matter how many terrorists you kill, more will simply fill their shoes, plus they are an invisible enemy.

i can't help but think this War On Terror is very convenient for all the companies that manufacture munitions.... and just how many of those companies sponsor different political parties in America? how very nice for them that they are now having orders ramped up to meet the war demand


**edited for spelling**

[Alias 0]

Lies, oil, manipulation and disregard for our military!
I cringe now, when I think that I voted twice for Bush. A lesson learned!

Biggest fubar situation in my days!

Just think, we first act to uphold UN regs, UN says do not go, we do anyway - all the feed slopped to the sheep...which I was one. Terrorists in Iraq? - There are now!

What a colossal mess! (shaking head) And to think there are still sheep grazing on the same BS being fed from this administration.

What good? Saddam is gone? Wow! Tell that to the victims, in Haditha.

This was worth it

Carpe Diem

[Royd 0]

Hmmm. Don't you remember Chamberlain appeasing Hitler. Someone should have taken him out early on. It might have saved your country tons of grief.

[kallend 1,651]

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Hmmm. Don't you remember Chamberlain appeasing Hitler. Someone should have taken him out early on. It might have saved your country tons of grief.

Who would you suggest? And when?

Have you read the Treaty that existed between Britain and Czechoslovakia in 1938? Thought not.

How about the Treaty between the USA and Germany after the end of WWI?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Gawain 0]

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Americas millitary ... ... has been discredited in the eyes of the world and the myth of its strenght has been exposed as such.

What is your view?

One of the funniest things I've read. For a moment I thought you were being serious.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[Brian3576 0]

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Americas millitary ... ... has been discredited in the eyes of the world and the myth of its strenght has been exposed as such.

What is your view?

One of the funniest things I've read. For a moment I thought you were being serious.

do you think all the deaths and mutilations on both sides is a price worth paying for the state the country is now in?

[StreetScooby 5]

You are a troll.

We are all engines of karma

[Brian3576 0]

i think it's a fair question, i personally don't think it's a price worth paying

[StreetScooby 5]

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i think it's a fair question, i personally don't think it's a price worth paying

What price are you paying?

I've worked in NYC for over 10 years now. The mongrel horde came to our door. We didn't go to their door. 3000 moms and dads died 9/11. For what? So some evil wanna be prophet could crow to his followers. Massively ignorant people who have loudly proclaimed they can't live with us. Yet, people here and the UK want us to try and live with them. Something doesn't fit.

Granted, Bush believed people he shouldn't have believed with regards to Iraq. Were those people Bush believed deliberately lying? I doubt it. We are there in Iraq, and we are going to be there for a while. God bless our armed forces.

I personally don't understand why we're not following the money in this terror situation. We know who is funding this shit, and we're not taking them out. Yes, they own alot of oil. Truth be known, toe-to-toe militarily we'll kick anyone's ass. Follow up is a problem, no argument there.

If this war was all about oil, well guess what, we'd have the oil. So, it must be more to it than that. It's a culture clash. And our leaders are taking an attrition approach.

We are all engines of karma

[crwtom 0]

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Hmmm. Don't you remember Chamberlain appeasing Hitler.

yeah right - Saddam was about to shoot down all patrol planes
in the NoFlyZones, rapidly reestablish air supremacy within Iraq,
use this to expand and technologically advance his military by a
few decades before anyone could blink. He then readily would
have reoccupied Kuwait and Iran, opened a crusade through
Saudi Arabia into Northern Africa, while keeping his northern
border secure via a secret pact with Putin. This of course he
would also eventually violate, and after a sweep through the
former Soviet republics all of Europe would be surrounded and
easy prey. Once he has sacked that continent he'd have the
biggest naval bases from which he could conquer the Americas.

Whew, thank god we got to him just in time ....

T

.

*******************************************************************
Fear causes hesitation, and hesitation will cause your worst fears to come true

[mikkey 0]

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i think it's a fair question, i personally don't think it's a price worth paying

What price are you paying?

I've worked in NYC for over 10 years now. The mongrel horde came to our door. We didn't go to their door. 3000 moms and dads died 9/11. For what? So some evil wanna be prophet could crow to his followers. Massively ignorant people who have loudly proclaimed they can't live with us. Yet, people here and the UK want us to try and live with them. Something doesn't fit.

Granted, Bush believed people he shouldn't have believed with regards to Iraq. Were those people Bush believed deliberately lying? I doubt it. We are there in Iraq, and we are going to be there for a while. God bless our armed forces.

I personally don't understand why we're not following the money in this terror situation. We know who is funding this shit, and we're not taking them out. Yes, they own alot of oil. Truth be known, toe-to-toe militarily we'll kick anyone's ass. Follow up is a problem, no argument there.

If this war was all about oil, well guess what, we'd have the oil. So, it must be more to it than that. It's a culture clash. And our leaders are taking an attrition approach.

When will you understand that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11? And that most terror in Iraq is secterian and the part that is inspired by AQ only started after the US invaded..... Looking at the reminder of your post, you really should try to research the subject...

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When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

[billvon 2,435]

>The mongrel horde came to our door. We didn't go to their door.

Wrong war. Al-Qaeda, a terrorist group the Afghani government was sheltering, attacked us on 9/11. I am constantly amazed that so many people forget that. I came within 20 minutes of being on American Airlines Flight 11 that morning; maybe that's why my memory seems a little better on that point.

[Skyrad 0]

Thank you. Maybe so but on this occasion I've come out from under the bridge and stand by what I said.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[bch7773 0]

I concur. Mugabe would be a much better target now. We need to convince Bush that uhhh rhinos are WMDs and Mugabe has them.

MB 3528, RB 1182

[kallend 1,651]

A war based on lies is lost the day it starts.

The US will be the big loser for decades over this, long after the last US soldier comes home.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[miked10270 0]

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How much oil does Mugabe have?

None so we aint goin there

Which comes rather neatly to the moral aspect of the US & UK milirary.

IF you MUST try & set yourself up as the World's policeman, then you can't pick & choose what you "Police". Once you free one or two "Poor-Oppressed-Peoples" from an "Evil-and-Dangerous-Madman"... Then... That implies that you have a list of similar situations which you're going to work down just as fast as you can!

So... Zimbabwe... North Korea... China... Vietnam(!)... Saudi Arabia... There's A LOT of folk out there without democracy, freedom of expression & the right to self-determination.

Suddenly, the Moral High Ground is looking like a very difficult climb.

Mike.

Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable.

Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

[twibbles 0]

Well said.

Eugene

"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of
people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."

[kallend 1,651]

Quote

Quote

Quote

How much oil does Mugabe have?

None so we aint goin there

Which comes rather neatly to the moral aspect of the US & UK milirary.

IF you MUST try & set yourself up as the World's policeman, then you can't pick & choose what you "Police". Once you free one or two "Poor-Oppressed-Peoples" from an "Evil-and-Dangerous-Madman"... Then... That implies that you have a list of similar situations which you're going to work down just as fast as you can!

So... Zimbabwe... North Korea... China... Vietnam(!)... Saudi Arabia... There's A LOT of folk out there without democracy, freedom of expression & the right to self-determination.

Suddenly, the Moral High Ground is looking like a very difficult climb.

Mike.

Not only that (all of which is true), but you should ALSO execute the role in a competent manner, and not sink into a quagmore of your own making and come off looking as bad as the "evil-and-dangerous-madman" you replaced.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[StreetScooby 5]

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I came within 20 minutes of being on American Airlines Flight 11 that morning

My boss was supposed to be at the financial software conference in Windows On The World that morning. The only thing that saved his life was a production problem at 6am that morning. He came to work, instead of going to the conference.

My boss's neighbor's mid-twenty's son worked for Cantor. The dad and son spoke as building management was saying in the background to "Stay in your seats". He told his dad that he was staying in his seat. Not that he could have gotten out anyway.

The Cantor traders were _screaming_ into their direct connect phones to anyone who would listen to them. Fucking screaming. Why? Because they got up at 5am and went to work that morning. And some f-ing raghead wanted to show he was a man to ignorant people.

My software lawyer had just closed a deal between a young dad with 2 kids and Cantor on some web application. The young dad died that day, because he got up and went to work.

This is a culture clash. America better wake up. It'll go on as long as we let it go on.

Am I advocating nukes, etc? Absolutely not. It wouldn't work. One billion muslims, the vast majority of which are ignorant, can't be killed.

Follow the money. It's that simple.

We are all engines of karma

[kallend 1,651]

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Quote

I came within 20 minutes of being on American Airlines Flight 11 that morning

My boss was supposed to be at the financial software conference in Windows On The World that morning. The only thing that saved his life was a production problem at 6am that morning. He came to work, instead of going to the conference.

My boss's neighbor's mid-twenty's son worked for Cantor. The dad and son spoke as building management was saying in the background to "Stay in your seats". He told his dad that he was staying in his seat. Not that he could have gotten out anyway.

The Cantor traders were _screaming_ into their direct connect phones to anyone who would listen to them. Fucking screaming. Why? Because they got up at 5am and went to work that morning. And some f-ing raghead wanted to show he was a man to ignorant people.

My software lawyer had just closed a deal between a young dad with 2 kids and Cantor on some web application. The young dad died that day, because he got up and went to work.

This is a culture clash. America better wake up. It'll go on as long as we let it go on.

Am I advocating nukes, etc. Absolutely not. It wouldn't work. One billion muslims, the vast majority of which are ignorant, can't be killed.

Follow the money. It's that simple.

As Bill said, wrong war.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.