Is a daily, formal "moment of silence" in public school a disguised form of prayer?

[Andy9o8 0]

My kids go to public school. This morning my one kid was running late, so I drove her to school. As I was signing her in at the office, the principal announced on the PA, “Everyone please stand for the Pledge to the Flag.” Done. Seemed pretty familiar to me from my own public school days. Then he announced, “Everyone please remain standing for a moment of silence”. Tick-tock-tick-tock-tick-tock-tick. Done.

Rabble-rouser that I am, I left thinking, “Hmm....I know that wasn’t technically a “prayer”, but since most atheists really don’t begin their day with a few moments of formal “silent reflection on their upcoming day”, can anyone doubt that, politically-correct rationalizations aside, that’s what it really was, i.e, a thinly-disguised form of public prayer?”

NOTE: I’m not asking whether prayer should be allowed (or is desirable) in public schools, nor am I asking whether a “moment of silence” does or does not technically comply with the law. Those are different debates for a different thread (so no hijacking!).

My question to you is: In a public school setting, is a formal, but otherwise un-dedicated “moment of silence” at the beginning of the day actually a thinly-veiled form of public prayer?

[rehmwa 2]

Any opportunity to get a few hundred kids to shut up at the same moment is a big victory to me.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[mattyblast 0]

I don't think it's a disguised prayer. A moment of slience is simply a way our culture shows respect & honor in a public group setting.

"DOOR!!!"

[wmw999 2,123]

Nope, not a thinly-veiled prayer. An opportunity for those who engage in prayer to do so in quiet, and an opportunity for those who don't to respect that outwardly for a whole minute. Or do whatever for a minute.

And there's nothing wrong with that. Being "forced" to show respect for a minute is not a bad thing. You don't have to agree with someone to respect their right to it.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Hawkins121 0]

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Any opportunity to get a few hundred kids to shut up at the same moment is a big victory to me.

lmao

[Andy9o8 0]

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I don't think it's a disguised prayer. A moment of slience is simply a way our culture shows respect & honor in a public group setting.

OK. Respect and honor for whom?

(Remember, it's not like it's a special moment of silence to remember someone - it's a daily, un-dedicated moment of silence.)

[mattyblast 0]

Hmm. That changes things, doesn't it? I read your original post too fast and assumed it was meant to honor somebody who died.

So this school, on a daily basis, has a moment of silence for absolutely no reason? Yeah, that doesn't sit too well with me. For one thing, it is most definitely possible that this is the school's way of trying to nudge students toward a habit of daily morning prayer.

More importantly, though, it cheapens the value of the moment-of-silence ritual that we traditionally use to honor a significant figure who has passed on. Just my humble opinions.

"DOOR!!!"

[Nightingale 0]

I don't care what it is for. I do care that it's a waste of valuable education time.

[Rebecca 0]

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I don't think it's a disguised prayer. A moment of slience is simply a way our culture shows respect & honor in a public group setting.

OK. Respect and honor for whom?

(Remember, it's not like it's a special moment of silence to remember someone - it's a daily, un-dedicated moment of silence.)

Respect for those who choose to use that time to pray, and respect for those who don't.

A lovely compromise and a moment of golden, blissful silence, imho.


edit. Eek!! Horrible misspelling.

you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' -- well do you, punk?

[Andy9o8 0]

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Respect for those who choose to use that time to prey

Ah, but should the religious be allowed to prey upon the non-religious?

My edit: Too late!!

[Hawkins121 0]

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I don't care what it is for. I do care that it's a waste of valuable education time.

public school isnt for education.. Its just free daycare. It doesnt really matter what they are doing.

[wmw999 2,123]

Interesting you didn't reply to my post saying the same thing.

I don't think there's a problem with it at all. It's not preying. It's a minute, spent learning how to be respectful of something. Practice makes perfect.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[wmw999 2,123]

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public school isnt for education.. Its just free daycare. It doesnt really matter what they are doing

That's probably a different thread, but how do you think most kids learn how to read? Did you ever go to public schools?

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Rebecca 0]

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Respect for those who choose to use that time to prey

Ah, but should the religious be allowed to prey upon the non-religious?

My edit: Too late!!

CRAP!! I just knew that was going to happen.

If you're non-religious and it bothers you to have a bunch praying churchies doing their thing around you in complete silence, that's your problem.

Anyway, you'd have to assume to some degree that they're even getting their worship on- do you KNOW they're praying if they're quiet?

I don't see the big deal. Shutting up and sitting still for a moment doesn't sound like a bad thing for any kid, even if they're just zoning out...

you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' -- well do you, punk?

[JohnnyD 0]

Brought to you by the same people who are calling creationism ID and trying to get that into public schools no doubt.
It is a bs way to get prayer in school.

[Andy9o8 0]

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An opportunity for those who engage in prayer to do so in quiet, and an opportunity for those who don't to respect that outwardly for a whole minute.

Assuming that's correct, I think that actually supports the argument that it's a thinly-veiled, formalized setting-aside of school time for those who pray to do so, while those who don't are forced to twiddle their thumbs until those praying are done. It gives the religious a special accommodation that the atheists don't get.

[Andy9o8 0]

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Brought to you by the same people who are calling creationism ID and trying to get that into public schools

Good analogy.

[unformed 0]

I do agree that it is brought in by the people who want to bring prayer into school. However, I don't believe there is anything wrong with it.

Everybody can benefit from a moment of silence. Thos who want to pray can pray. The rest can reflect upon themselves. Silence never hurt a soul.

And by the way, I am an atheist.

This ad space for sale.

[JohnnyD 0]

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Everybody can benefit from a moment of silence. Thos who want to pray can pray. The rest can reflect upon themselves. Silence never hurt a soul.

And by the way, I am an atheist.

What if you are a member of the United Congregation of Loud Noises and want to shout your love of Jesus so loud he can hear you?
There are places to pray. They are called churches, homes, anywhere you feel the need. The huge difference in this case is you are forcing people to recognize and respect YOUR religious beliefs in a setting where practicing religion has no place at all.

[mr2mk1g 10]

I voted "no".

It can be done in a way which makes it a defacto prayer meet. This would be wrong IMO.

It can also easily be simply a moment of silent contemplation – be that moment a-religious, Christian, Buddhist or whatever else it is that floats your chakras, it doesn't matter. I have no idea how moments of silence are done over there with you guys – but they're quite common over here and there's absolutely no religious connotations to them whatsoever other than those privately added by each individual in their own mind.

That's one of the reasons why they work well – it's down to each individual what they do during that minute. If they want to think about their version of God, more power to them. If they want to reflect upon the life of the person they are commemorating, that's a great use of time too. Hell, if they want to quietly curse the person then as far as I'm concerned that is perfectly within their prerogative – you can't control thought after all.

Moments of silence work because they are all-inclusive – it's up to the individual what they do with the time and so long as no one is forcing them to do anything in particular then everything's just groovy.

[Andy9o8 0]

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Moments of silence work because they are all-inclusive

Are they really "all-inclusive"? Or are they just cleverly disguised to appear all inclusive, but in reality (i.e., when the veil is lifted) they're allowing the religious to have a formal moment of prayer during school time?

I think that many atheist kids, if they're astute enough at that age to recognize the subtle undertone, would rightfully feel that formal moments of silence like this don't include him, they exclude him.

[crwtom 0]

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. Then he announced, “Everyone please remain standing for a moment of silence”.

I cannot find a reference to "paying respect to anyhting" in the
original post - but everyone seems to cite it. I doubt the kids would
have much of a higher conception of "respect" anyway.

Getting them to quiet down and gather their focus for the upcoming
lessons seems like an OK idea to me. It seems like a minute well spent.

T

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Fear causes hesitation, and hesitation will cause your worst fears to come true

[Andy9o8 0]

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Getting them to quiet down and gather their focus for the upcoming lessons seems like an OK idea to me.

I'd agree, if that's what it was. But I was there; they weren't being asked to "quiet down and gather their focus for the upcoming lessons" -- that after-the-fact justification is exactly the kind of "disguise" I'm talking about. It was a "moment of silence" at exactly the same juncture as the "opening benediction" used to be done when that sort of thing was still PC (or as is done in parochial schools).

[rehmwa 2]

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You don't have to agree with someone to respect their right to it.

You've been gone from these forums lately??? (I like your post and think it's truth).

(Andy - switching "pray" to "prey" was very funny)

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rehmwa 2]

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My kids go to public school.

So, generally, 'public schools' are not hotbeds of religious fervor. Just the opposite. What makes you think your 'specific' local school is out of the ordinary.

1 - the frequent requests to raise property taxes? Especially in off election years when no one but the teachers show up at the polls?
2 - the enforced social projects on the curriculum in lieu of math, science and grammar?
3 - intense references to earthday, save the rainforests, everybody wins, etc in your kidss daily lessons?
4 - the requests for families to contribute extra to field trips $$$ requests to give "scholarship" support to the poor kids in class?
5 - the constant sales and bids and fundraisers?
6 - excessive special ed programs and breakfast programs and health reviews and home visits and social workers and specialty teachers and counselors?
7 - the very softspoken, non-direct way the people talk and avoid making any decisive statements?
8 - the intense liberal indoctrination the staff receives in college and then through to their hiring selection process?

just wondering

edit: perhaps the 'moment of silence' is a veiled attempt by the principal to get a slight moment of worship to mother earth with the goal of nature rising up and protecting the dolphins and the ozone from the 2 legged predators............. Won't someone PLEASE think of the children....of the trees

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants