Gee... I wonder if obesity is becoming a problem.

[lawrocket 3]

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Perhaps rather than saying "It's difficult" a better message would "Look I did it, so can you!"

I disagree. Trust me. I used to weigh 245. I got down to 165. I'm now at 180-185.

It wasn't easy. It is HARD to lose weight. It is difficult. And if you let people know from the start that "This is gonna be tough but it will get easier as your changes become your lifestyle" then they have realistic expectations.

Saying, "If I can do it you can" is not usually successful, because a person who wants to make a lifestyle change is having self-esteem issues. If they were happy with themselves, then they wouldn't be seeking that change, now would they?

Honesty seems to be lost. Making people think it's easier than it is is a recipe for disaster. Let people know that it is really difficult.

"Kids, don't do drugs. They are bad." This is not as effective as, "Kids. People do drugs because they make you feel fucking great! But the problem is, you can't find anyone who said, 'Work got better, I made more money, my life got better after I started smoking meth.' Because 'feeling good' means that you don't handle problems like you should." A little honesty makes things easier to comprehend - they know you aren't bullshitting.

Losing weight is the same way. Telling someone who has probably failed at losing weight ten times that it's easy makes them feel like, "Well, then, I just am weak, and there is no use."

I can put myself in the shoes of an obese person. I've been obese.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[NWFlyer 2]

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Saying, "If I can do it you can" is not usually successful, because a person who wants to make a lifestyle change is having self-esteem issues. If they were happy with themselves, then they wouldn't be seeking that change, now would they?

Sooooo true. Before I figured out how to make the changes I needed, I resented the HELL out of people who had successfully lost weight. They didn't inspire me, they angered me. I wasn't really angry at them, I was self-aware enough to know that, I was angry at myself. Why could they do it and I couldn't? Why was I so weak?

A year or so ago, I thought I'd laid my demons to rest for good. I know now that I will fight this battle for the rest of my life. And sometimes, I will not win. Right now, as my weight's crept back up a bit over the last few months, I'm losing the battle. I'm still winning the overall war, but I've lost a little ground.

That's the other problem with weight loss. Maintaining it. Lots of people figure out how to take it off. Very few figure out how to keep it off. The entire diet industry is geared towards quick fixes, a "diet" that you can use for a few months to lose weight then you can "go off." Not a solution.

[wmw999 2,175]

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My point was that if you have "deal" mentality in a physical state that requires others to modify interaction parameters to cater to your unhealthy lifestyle, you're expecting people to assist you in remaining at least as unhealthy as you currently are.

Would that include alcoholics, smokers, and people who talk on cell phones while driving?

I'm far more impacted by them in my daily life.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[yardhippie 0]

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Actually, schools are starting to do something about it, at least in FL. A class called "Life Management" is one of the graduation requirements. They learn about nutrition, exercise and the food pyramid in that class among other things. I've also been reading about schools taking out the soda machines (it's about damn time) and changing the lunch offernings to have more healthy selections. It isn't much, of course, but it's a start. The only bad part is they still only need 1 year of PE to graduate. It's the only exercise that some of the kids get.

but that falls back on the parents. Which falls back on education, which falls back on accountability, and back on to education...

I lot of what this conversation boils down to is social issues. If we just stop pointing fingers and do something instead. A difference can be made.

Goddam dirty hippies piss me off! ~GFD
"What do I get for closing your rig?" ~ me
"Anything you want." ~ female skydiver
Mohoso Rodriguez #865

[ccowden 0]

No, because we are not talking about them. Start a thread about those problems if you would like. If not, then try to make posts that are slightly more constuctiove to the discussion at hand.

[karenmeal 0]

So... let me get this straight (because contrary to your personal opinion, you're actually not being very clear.)

You think the solution is to make it hard to be obese?

So obese people shouldn't have medical equipment that is the proper size for them? I mean, cause that would really get them to shape up and lose weight right? Lets not size equipment so that morbidly obese people can go to the hospital. That is what is making everyone get so fat, that we accomodate people like that.

I guess obese people shouldn't have caskets the right size either. I mean, that is making it WAAAY too easy. What better way to instigate weight loss than to taunt someone with one final huge embarassment, a casket that isn't big enough for them! Chances are that this morbidly obese person who died and can't fit into a casket probably has friends and family that are also morbidly obese. They ought to see what happens when you get so obese that you can't fit into a normal-sized casket. Maybe that would help them lose weight and quit being so smug about being fat? You know, you could just dig a hole and dump their body in there. But don't accomodate the fat person, just dig a normal sized hole and let everyone at the funeral watch as they attempt to cram the deceased person in there.

Is that your idea of a solution?

"Life is a temporary victory over the causes which induce death." - Sylvester Graham

[ccowden 0]

EXACTLY. Stop blaming the assholes who are mean, the people who don't treat you well, and all the other things we have been discussing, and start being accountable. AMERICA needs to start being accountable and stop enabling.

[NWFlyer 2]

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but that falls back on the parents.

Hmmm.... my parents had me in sports leagues from the time I was old enough to play.

... my dad used to coach all my teams.

... one or both parents would take me to practices/games and there was always someone cheering me on at a game.

... my mom didn't keep junk food in the house

... we were limited in the amount of TV we could watch

... I walked to school or the bus stop, no matter the weather.

And I still managed to have a problem as a teen/adult.

I'm not totally discounting your ideas, though, there is a lot that is learned behavior, and a lot that parents *can* do to encourage a healthier environment, and personal responsibility. Personal responsibility was the most important thing I learned in my house growing up, and I've never blamed anyone else. My personal demons are mine, they weren't caused by my parents, or society, or anything else, and I don't expect anyone else to "fix" my problems for me, either.

But I still haven't figured out why they need to hate me (not saying that you or anyone else here does, but there's plenty of people that do or did).

[ccowden 0]

Forget it. You obviously would rather be argumentative than try AT ALL to see my point.

[mnealtx 0]

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Obesity does affect others, but the solution is all on the obese person's shoulders....and it's a problem that's really damn difficult to solve.

Hmmm, difficult you say...

I read this story about a hiker who got trapped under a huge bolder in a canyon in Utah, he had no water and his chances of survival where slim. In order to free himself, this guy took out his penknife and CUT HIS OWN FRIGGIN' ARM OFF!!

Now where were we... oh yes, you were telling us all how difficult it is to eat sensibly and do 30mins of walking a day.

I tell you what, partner... strap on an extra 200 lbs or more of weight and go walk for 30 minutes... then do it again tomorrow, and the next day, and the next day.

Let us know how well your hips hold out, m'kay?

Yes, addictive behavior and eating patterns ARE part of it...and the bad eating habits and food addictions are every bit as hard to kick as nicotine or any other addiction - haven't you been reading the same thread the rest of us have??

Luckily, the rest of us mere mortals have you to look up to and guide us...

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[lawrocket 3]

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Why do highschools make kids take calculus and physics, but not a nutrition class?

This is interesting. Most kids in high school DO NOT take calculus or physics. Algebra, trig, etc.? Yes. Calculus? It's for the nerds who want AP credit for it.

Physics? Some take it. Most don't. Most don't take calculus or physics because it's hard. It's usually not fun. It's a hard thing to choose taking calculus over taking a school newspaper class. We usually decide to do what's easiest and face the consequences later.

It's easier to be obese than it is to be thin, karen. It's easier to get out of shape than it is to be in shape. It's easier to continue bad habits than to start new ones.

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Perhaps you misinterpret a hopeless and depressed attitude as someone saying, "Fuck it" and not caring.

We often do. It's human nature. Why are they hopeless and depressed? What caused that? Repeated failures? Lack of self-esteem to believe that they CAN do it?

"Fuck it" is the expected response from a hopeless and depressed person, is it not? Without hope, there is no effort. "Fuck it, no matter what I do, it won't work anyway." It is not a stretch to believe that. I've been there, and I've been hopeless. I thought it was easier. I found out later that I was wrong. Fuck hopelessness. Fuck depression. Fuck crutches. Fuck all of it.

Something bothers you about yourself? Fix it. Make a plan and stick to it. Rest along the way, but stay the course. I have learned through my innumerable failures in life that not staying the course and quitting, change really wasn't that important to me. Once the desire to change is worht the effort, then change will be made.

Oversimplification? Prove me wrong.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[NWFlyer 2]

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Oversimplification? Prove me wrong.

Ultimately, no. You're not wrong.

Change is hard.
Overcoming addiction is hard.
Overcoming depression is hard.

It takes courage.
It takes discipline.
It takes believing that it's worth it.
It takes hope.
It takes the right information and knowing the right approach.

Unfortunately, far too many people lack one or all of those.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[stallboy 0]

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Shall we reconvene the discussion when the country reaches 70%, 80% or 90% obesity levels?

No. Read my post. I discuss a solution. What do you do to help? Nothing.

Well I take my kids to the park, we only occasionally go to fast food places, we don't eat in front of the tv and we enjoy sports together.

Ah, this might not fit your view of me, hmm ok if it helps; I eat babies, whip orphans, molest goats and hide old peoples teeth.

One day, I'm gonna grow wings, a chemical reaction, hysterical and useless...

[lawrocket 3]

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Oversimplification? Prove me wrong.

Ultimately, no. You're not wrong.

Change is hard.
Overcoming addiction is hard.
Overcoming depression is hard.

It takes courage.
It takes discipline.
It takes believing that it's worth it.
It takes hope.
It takes the right information and knowing the right approach.

Unfortunately, far too many people lack one or all of those.

Above all, it takes and understanding that the road is long and hard. It takes the KNOWLEDGE that there will be failures, setbacks, and breakdowns along the way. Too many people give up after the first or second setback. If you expect them to happen, then you are fine so long as you don't ENCOURAGE the setback.

You'll lose battles, but you'll win the war. People get down on themselves too easily. They get depressed. Depression is merely anger without enthusiasm.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[kelpdiver 2]

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There is a lot of "blah blah" about this debate, on both sides. The truth is that this is (in virtually every case) a self inflicted condition.

I can't help but think that the environment doesn't play a role though. Otherwise, why is this more so a problem in America than in other countries?

well, in part because you not seeing it. It certainly is there. America is leading the way, but Australia and England are right behind, and the rest of the Western world is following. The invasion by KFC of Asia ia also making quite a change, at least among the affluent portion of society.

We've had this conversation before and again the presumptions made have been a bit absurd. Very few people consciously 'eat themselves to an early grave,' as has been frequently suggested. On a daily calorie surplus of a mere 100 calories, which is in the neighborhood of 5% in excess, one gains 10lbs in a year. 5 years of that and you have someone that isn't missing the mark by much, but is now definitely very overweight.

More than the rest of the world, Americans are at greater risk because of a lack of time, and a lack of walking. On average we log more hours than any other nation on the planet, and on top of that we spend another hour sitting in the car. Most of the solutions to the 100 cal surplus involve spending time over a long sustained basis. And we don't have it. So it's not an easy problem to fix.

The lowest hanging fruit to me is the return of PE to the school. A return where you fire people like my 4th grade teacher who cancelled it 170 of the 180 days to punish the class. And high schoolers that aren't in a team sport get 4 years of it, not 1 or 2. This won't stop what happens to adults as work grows and metabolism shrinks, but at least they're more likely to leave childhood at a good weight, and have played sports on an actual field rather than a TV screen.

[karenmeal 0]

I've tried several times to address different aspects of what I perceived to be your point, apparently I'm continuing to fail.

You're not being clear on what your point is.

"Life is a temporary victory over the causes which induce death." - Sylvester Graham

[stallboy 0]

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You're not being clear on what your point is.

Ok, let me see if I get Chris' points

1) There are a lot of obese people who simply do not care that their lifestyle choice means that they're sharing 1/2 of your seat on a plane etc
2) There are assholes out there but he is not one of them and anyway that's not the problem we're discussing
3) That he admires people who try to do something about their obesity, but unfortunately many do not
4) He thinks that obese people are ruthlessly targeted by companies who exploit their problem
5) He probabily feels a little surprised at the backlash of bringing up what are rational valid opinions

Now does that help you Karenmeal? because I'm a busy person, I do have puppies to strangle.

Chris, if I have missed your point then please let me know.

Mike

One day, I'm gonna grow wings, a chemical reaction, hysterical and useless...

[lawrocket 3]

His point has been pretty clear to me:

My abstract of his first post is: "due to obesity, many more accommodations are becoming necessary at high cost to business and government, and larger products are making their way into the marketplace."

His first opinion post (post #50 in this thread) started with the introduction:

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"II don't think the ones who are fighting the weight problem, or "come in all shapes and sizes" are the problem here. Of course there are people with different body types and weight issues who try very hard to fight it and we should all be compasionate to them, becuase it is a hard thing to deal with. The problem comes from the people who say "Fuck it, I am going to eat whatever I want and get as heavy as I want and the rest of the world can just deal with it cuz it is my right," who are the root of the problem."

All of his posts throughout have been cosistent with post #50. I think his point was pretty clear from the outset. Others have attempted to blur that. He believes he is being attacked unfairly for writing things he did not write.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[windcatcher 0]

I understand what you're trying to say Chris.
Anyway, I think it is just a matter of NOT catering to the obese so much that we accept it and show we support that lifestyle, and providing the right accomodations for the obese, because there is no other choice.
Maintaining that balance is where I think our society fails.

Mother to the cutest little thing in the world...

[ccowden 0]

Thank you to the last 3 posters. Yes, you all see my point and are correct in what I am trying to say. And further more, my point is we ALL as Americans need to stop coming up with excuses and ways to DEAL with obesity, and start changing the way we think to start putting an end to it.

[NWFlyer 2]

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Thank you to the last 3 posters. Yes, you all see my point and are correct in what I am trying to say. And further more, my point is we ALL as Americans need to stop coming up with excuses and ways to DEAL with obesity, and start changing the way we think to start putting an end to it.

I've heard "We need to fix it" a bunch of times from you and a lot of other posters.

I don't disagree with you on that point. But I also haven't seen any ideas. You posted on your personal experience with obesity, with your mother, and how you were unable to help her change. So you know how complex an issue it is.

So what are your ideas for dealing with it on a societal level, other than "don't make obesity acceptable"?

[stallboy 0]

Ok here are some ideas:

1) Make physical education a prominent part of education policy
2) Serve wholesome food in schools that is not freeze dried, deep fryed fat laden junk
3) Ban the advertising of junk foods on kids TV programs
4) Invest in after-school soccer/base ball/football clubs
5) Parents: eat at the table with you kids, talk to them make eating a social event
6) Tax high fat food

Top of my head stuff...

Mike

One day, I'm gonna grow wings, a chemical reaction, hysterical and useless...

[stallboy 0]

7) Form a "Gym" pact with some of your larger friends
8) Have a fun day out with the kids with a healthy packed lunch.
9) Walk to work, if its close... park further away if its not
10) Take the stairs
11) You and your partner take a evening stroll
12) Once a week turn the tv off and have an activity day
13) Play twister
14) Do a sponsered walk in aid of your favorite charity

One day, I'm gonna grow wings, a chemical reaction, hysterical and useless...

[ccowden 0]

I HAVE given my idea of how to address this problem as a society. It starts with each individual making the decision to be accountable for how they choose to live. Just because society makes it easy for us to live a very unhealthy lifestyle, doesn't mean we have to. Then we all have to stop enabling the problem by not going to fastfood joints, not using drive thru banks/ATMs/coffee and food places, refusing to buy into the idea that we need larger size sodas/popcorn/meal portions/candybars/etc, not buying the junk food that is forced in our faces, getting of our asses and doing something active instead of watching American Idol, telling our schools that we don't want our kids going off campus for lunch and instead serving a healthy lunch in school, not allowing schools to have candybars and soda and snack machines (they didn't when I was in school), teaching our children the importance of an active healthy lifestyle instead of letting them get lazier and lazier, promoting sports, teaching by example and showing our young people that we ourselves are leading an active healthy lifestyle, and on and on.

We need to strip the whole thing down and start over. This is a problem that has developed over many years and will not be fixed overnight or with diets or pills. We cannot continue to rack our brains for solutions on how to accommodate obese people, instead rack our brains to help those who are fighting it and find ways to improve te health and thought process of our young people so that the next generation can start the long process or turning it around. America needs to change it's attitude of how we are "dealing" with obesity and say no to the marketing of crap food, larger portions, and lazy inovations that all enable people to be obese and unhealthy. We ALL need to stop doing the things and using the products that hurt us all, even if you are not obese.

Start with yourself

Teach our children

Support others

Say no to the products that are being marketed

Get active

Get healthy

Pass it on

[livendive 8]

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IT'S ATTITUDE!!!!!!!!!

I don't know how much clearer I can be.

It is America catering to the problem.

It is accepting it as not a problem.

It is not practicing self-control.

It is what we are being taught.

It is what is made available to us.

To change this problem, we all need to put our foot down and stop what is happening. Everywhere you turn, it is becoming easier and easier to lead an unhealthy lifestyle and easier and easier to be obese and fit in. We have to stop that.

Why?

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)