Hillary Clinton vs. Jeb Bush 2008

[likearock 1]

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Are you serious? She's a Bush clone; are you going to tell me 4 or 8 more years of Bush is a good thing?

She's got a brain, and she's extremely articulate -- how can she be a clone?

She's shown very little other than she's a Bush yes man, and without someone to kowtow to, what would she do?

Hasn't she presented herself as pro-choice? That definitely would put her at odds with Bush.

[masterrig 1]

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Third party, please!!

Hopefully the Libs won't try to run Nader, again...

________________________________________

Good Lord! I sure hope not! Nader was totally wrong about the Corvair in the 60's and he's still wron in so many ways. I would really like to see Rudy Guiliani run for president!


Chuck

[mnealtx 0]

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At the end of this term, Ms. Rice will have 8 years of experience - coincidently, the same amount of experience Mrs. Clinton will have.

And coincidently 8 years more than Bush had.

Bush was a state governor, as you well know. Neither Mmes Rice or Clinton had that.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[narcimund 0]

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Bush was a state governor, as you well know. Neither Mmes Rice or Clinton had that.

Absolutely right! And what a fine resume item too.

So THAT'S where he became a renowned expert in the workings of the federal legislative process, strategic warfare, macro economics, international diplomacy, and international law, right?

Neither Rice nor Clinton have ever owned a sports team either. Forget them!

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[mnealtx 0]

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Bush was a state governor, as you well know. Neither Mmes Rice or Clinton had that.

Absolutely right! And what a fine resume item too.

So THAT'S where he became a renowned expert in the workings of the federal legislative process, strategic warfare, macro economics, international diplomacy, and international law, right?

Neither Rice nor Clinton have ever owned a sports team either. Forget them!

I guess that's where Clinton became such an expert too, hmm?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Richards 0]

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I'd like to see the next POTUS not be a Clinton, Bush, Kennedy, Cheney, etc. How about a new last name for a change?

Rice is a new last name.

She is worth considering.

Richards

My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.

[narcimund 0]

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I guess that's where Clinton became such an expert too, hmm?

Nice of you to assume I'm an advocate for a candidate. Please keep assuming things about me. It amuses me to no end.

But regardless, I'll take the bait 'cause it's so easy.

If -I- spent 8 years married to a president, I know I'd learn a hell of a lot about the job. More than anyone could learn being a ceremonial figurehead in a landlocked rural state.

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[kelpdiver 2]

Nearly every President in the modern era has been some combination of governor, senator, and vice-president. Rarely was the VP not one of the other two first.

These are leadership roles, showing at least some proof that the person can take charge. Bush did Texas, Bush Sr was VP and former head of the CIA, Reagan did California, Hillary did NY (carpetbagging aside), Clinton did Arkansas, Gore did Tennessee, even ole Jeb did Florida...and so on.

Rice...while she's shown loyalty to her President no matter how stupid, has been in charge of nothing, ever. Sorry, Stanford doesn't count. Making her as qualified to be President as that person Bush first nominated for the Supreme Court, the one had never been a judge. She's an advisor, not a leader.

[mnealtx 0]

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I guess that's where Clinton became such an expert too, hmm?

Nice of you to assume I'm an advocate for a candidate. Please keep assuming things about me. It amuses me to no end.

But regardless, I'll take the bait 'cause it's so easy.

If -I- spent 8 years married to a president, I know I'd learn a hell of a lot about the job. More than anyone could learn being a ceremonial figurehead in a landlocked rural state.

Well, we know we can count on you to bash anything non-liberal, so I figured I'd give you a liberal example.

As for learning anything about the job... look up Hil's performance on nat'l health care....

Figurehead describes her perfectly...

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[miked10270 0]

Y'All missed an option out on your poll:

5: "This election's gonna be funnier than The Simpsons meets South Park!" (Furrin' DZ.Commers only).

Hils should recruit that French election team... Chirac's... The ones that came up with the election winning slogan:

"Vote for the Criminal to keep the Fascist out"!

Mike.

Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable.

Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

[narcimund 0]

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Well, we know we can count on you to bash anything non-liberal,

Ah! Got it. Now I know exactly how little you know about me. I was wondering.

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[mnealtx 0]

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Well, we know we can count on you to bash anything non-liberal,

Ah! Got it. Now I know exactly how little you know about me. I was wondering.

Not that I make a habit of tracking your posts, but I don't recall you having any good to say about the current administration... "a rose by any other name", so to speak.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[narcimund 0]

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Well, we know we can count on you to bash anything non-liberal,

Ah! Got it. Now I know exactly how little you know about me. I was wondering.

Not that I make a habit of tracking your posts, but I don't recall you having any good to say about the current administration... "a rose by any other name", so to speak.

You're right. I've never had anything good to say about the current administration.

That makes me liberal?

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[mnealtx 0]

A case could be made for some flavor of libertarian, I suppose....

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Hayfield 0]

I have very little, if any, good to say about the current administration. I dont consider myself a liberal. But if being a republican means i have to surrender a civil liberty or two to "be more secure" then I am the polar opposite. Ben Franklin would agree, for those who would give up liberty for security deserve neither.
That bein said, I would want to hear more from McCain, Giulianni or other centrist type repubs. As for Dems, maybe Wes Clark or some other pissed off old general might be the way to go. I just dont see anybody on the horizon.

"Remember the First Commandment: Don't Fuck Up!"
-Crusty Old Pete

[kelpdiver 2]

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Ben Franklin would agree, for those who would give up liberty for security deserve neither.
That bein said, I would want to hear more from McCain, Giulianni or other centrist type repubs.

You already know enough about McCain. McCain-Feingold showed how much he respects the 1st, and his involvment with the AGS shows his respect for the 2nd.

[Lucky... 0]

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Nightngale's post was very good.

I've always thought the libertarian party has some interesting ideas, but they fail to make a case against some reasonable objections that people might have. And there is also the fact that any political idea or tendency, no matter how good, can be taken to an unhealthy extreme. Historically, the most successful governments have been an amalgam of different, & often opposing, political tendencies.

I'm interested in libetarianism but some things I read from say, the Rand institute, just don't sound right to me.


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I have yet to see real answers to social issues from the Libertarians, but I am not an expert on them.

Lucky has a good point. Libertarians really need to get out there and make a case for themselves, addressing the issue of how to replace certain government services with alternatives.

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another problem with Libertarians is that they generally just don't like politicians very much, so they're not really up on getting out there and, well, polticking for their own position.

Couldn't have written it better

I have read the Libertarian doctrine and in fact, did so last night after posting the message about Libertarians. ..... it furthered my stance on them. I took a test which I will post later, that confirmed I'm a moderate Democrat.

Again, they have this, "wave a majic wand for social disorders" mentality that would leave litterally millions w/o room, food, medicine and many other basics. If the Libertaians were elected and stood by their platform we would have to get dump trucks to pick up the bodies out of the streets. It's noble and idealistic to think these *CHARITIES*, aka church groups, could raise enough public money to take care of teh sick and old, but it is fantasy island.....

[Lucky... 0]

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Are you serious? She's a Bush clone; are you going to tell me 4 or 8 more years of Bush is a good thing?

She's got a brain, and she's extremely articulate -- how can she be a clone?

Becuae she follows whatever orders Bush barks.....care to differ???

[matthewcline 0]

I would vote for Colin Powell.
He (like Me) doesn't care for either the RNC or DNC and wants to see the country run by the people not school trained polititcians.

But I think this time he will keep his promis to his wife and stay home. Damn it!

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[skydyvr 0]

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Becuae she follows whatever orders Bush barks.....care to differ???

It's her job to follow the orders of the president.

On her own, one could only guess how she'd do.

. . =(_8^(1)

[rushmc 18]

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The problem with allowing the government to fund social programs and medicine is that the government tends to do things poorly and inefficiently. Libertarians advocate a dollar for dollar tax credit for donations to certain classes of charitable organizations, because the charities are already in the community, are aware of local needs, and don't have the huge amount of red tape that the government does.

Honestly, I don't think it's the job of the government to provide social programs or medical care. That's our own responsibility. The government exists to protect our lives, liberty and property from criminals and outside forces. I don't have a problem with the government making it easier for private organizations to provide certain services, but whenever the government tries to do more than that, it usually messes up royally and wastes huge amounts of money on things that don't work. We've had a welfare system in place for decades now, and it doesn't work. Throwing more money at a system that doesn't work isn't going to make it work. It's just going to waste more money that could be spent actually helping people.

I find it interesting how you make a sweeping generalization about libertarians (that we're disgruntled republicans), and then go on to say that you're not an expert on libertarians. I've never, ever been a republican. I was a registered democrat for the majority of time I've been able to vote. Democrats often claim that libertarians don't care about the poor, and that's not the case at all. Libertarians aren't heartless and saying that the government shouldn't help people, just that the government shouldn't do it directly, because it doesn't do a very good job and there are other organizations in a much better position to actually accomplish something. Read the libertarian platform. You might find yourself pleasantly surprised.

What You Said!!!! If ever a canidate close to this (that has a chance) I will vote for them!!

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Nightingale 0]

Right now, people pay about 1/3 of their salary, on average, in taxes. If a dollar for dollar tax credit was given for up to 50 or 60 percent of total taxes for contributions to charities that provide food, shelter, job training, day care, or medical care to lower income people, you bet those charities would get money. Most of us would rather our money go to charity than to uncle sam, and if it's a simple matter of a few check boxes on the tax form, people would do it, especially since it's money they wouldn't be keeping anyway. It would either go to uncle sam or to a charity, not back in their pocket.


Edited to add: You show me a government program that helps the poor with a similar percentage to a well run charity of funds in to funds actually helping the poor rather than helping to line bureaucrats pockets, and I'll take another look at my point of view.

[Nightingale 0]

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What You Said!!!! If ever a canidate close to this (that has a chance) I will vote for them!!

Well, if nobody votes for third party candidates because they believe those candidates don't have a chance, those candidates will NEVER have a chance. It may be necessary to vote for candidates that have a slim chance of victory at this time to convince the rest of the public that third party candidates can be viable options. A small sacrifice now to perhaps alter the political spectrum in the future. Before the last presidential election, I made a decision to vote my conscience rather than to vote for someone who I thought could "win". I picked the candidate I thought could best lead the country. Isn't that what we're supposed to do?

[Shotgun 1]

I think that it would encourage people to vote for a third party if we had proportional representation - where the legislative seats would be allocated to each party by the percentage of votes that they won. I think that this is the only way that a third party candidate will ever have a chance of winning a presidential election, because it's the only way to stop people from thinking that they are "wasting their vote" if they vote for anyone other than the two main party candidates.

[shortkid422 0]

Honestly, I would vote for Barack Obama. Haven't had a problem with him yet in Illinois and that means alot in this state (just check out our governors and the Chicago government to see what I mean).