stoneycase 0 #101 February 9, 2006 hmmm...blinding flash of the obvious? muslims are people, like you or i, flesh and blood. imo, they are not innately better, or worse, than any other group of people. they're *just* people.Does whisky count as beer? - Homer There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #102 February 9, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteI haven’t slept with all Muslim women and don’t make a goal for my self to do so. I think it’s their personal choice... You should stick to the western woman for strippers they tend to take their cloths off much easier. Some will even show you their breasts for 1000 feet of altitude. You start out by respecting a woman's right to make personal choices for herself. But then at the end, you reverse direction, and suggest that there is something demeaning or improper for a female skydiver to make a personal choice to flash her breasts to a jump pilot. Did you and I read the same paragraph? I didn't get anything "demeaning or improper" out of his words. It was implied, and coupled with his previous expressions in this forum about how Muslims treat their women better than Americans do theirs, I knew that is what he meant. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #103 February 9, 2006 QuoteThe people who attack my posts John... are the best example others can see of a totally one sided view that some in this country hold. They have no problem with the posts that are degrading to Muslims if there is a smiley but mine and a few other who do not agree with them they take the time to attack. It is a great example of the blindness and lack of perspective that many suffer from. Excuse me, but don't include me in that negative characterization. I have made no anti-Muslim postings here. Your own blindness is causing you to lump everyone together, deserving or not. All I did was challenge you on your idea that American women are somehow less respected than Muslim women, because we give them the freedom to make their own choices in life. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,141 #104 February 9, 2006 I ams till hoping that you will answer my earlier question. Why the rule simposed on women by the US are any better than the rules imposed on women by Islam, or Islamic regimes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #105 February 9, 2006 QuoteI am amazed at your knowledge of the Islamic legal system. If the Islamic legal system is so great, how come you and your Dad ran away from Iran and came to live in America? Perhaps it is time for you to tell your story once again, to those who haven't heard it before. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #106 February 9, 2006 QuoteQuoteThese days, Islam and muslims are getting a pretty bad rap. Let's use this thread to mention some good things about Islam and Muslims. I'll start: Muslims don't drink and drive. I actually took a religion class and learned about Muslims. The true Muslims would never be violent and if you were a complete stranger that showed up at their door. They would be so curtious and feed you as if you were on of their own. I knew guy that imediatly converted to Mulsim because while he was in Turkey, he experienced this. He said he was hooked! The Muslim religion is like any other (except Buddism), they are always going to have their radicals that give them a bad name. Oh, you think? http://www.hindu.com/2002/05/23/stories/2002052301301500.htmWhen an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sneaky 0 #107 February 10, 2006 They get up early to watch a sunrise come rain wind shine or snow !!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #108 February 10, 2006 QuoteQuoteAgain, the silence is deafening, as they say. It isn't. Plenty of Muslim leaders have publicly criticised the violence. Besides, millions of people world wide DID stand up and march in protest of the US invasion of Iraq. Did any of you listen? Like fuck you did. Let's talk about muslims dancing in the streets after the hijacked airliners crashed on 9/11/01. And I suppose that the millions of peaceful friendly muslims who are publicly criticizing the current violence were sitting in their homes watching t.v. while it was only the minute handful of evil violent ones out in the streets doing the dancing... --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #109 February 10, 2006 QuoteI've travelled and stayed in several muslim countries and I've always been treated with respect and politeness. I've also had good experiences in Israel, Africa and a whole bunch of other places... the average guy (or girl) on the street is generally a good person regardless of thier religion. It's a shame that the loudest most extreme and obnoxious people of each religion, society or culture are the ones that people tend to remember... most muslims aren't extremists, most christians aren't out to convert you, most americans aren't redneck bigots and not all brits have bad teeth We're all people... can't we just respect each other a little?? C'mmon guys... play nicely??? This is a good post, and I agree with it in principle. The only problem is that YES, we DO have to focus on that tiny fringe of a given group that causes WORLDWIDE-LEVEL problems for everyone else. To ignore it is to ignore the smallpox virus just because it's a teeny tiny little microscopic thing so how could it possibly hurt us? --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #110 February 10, 2006 QuoteQuoteMuslims do us the kindness of keeping their hideous womenfolk fully shrouded in garments. And you call me a bigot... I don't know what impression you have of Muslim women, but I see some pretty attractive ones fairly often where I'm at. You have GOT to be fucking kidding me. You really sayin' that you couldn't tell that was a JOKE, like most of the rest of the posts in this thread were meant in humor? If you couldn't tell that, man... you got probs. --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #111 February 10, 2006 QuoteQuoteSo which is it? Do you respect the freedom of personal choice for women such as they have in America, That is just too funny. So, when did women in America become free to sunbath topless on the beach? I know that at least in New York, women have obtained that right. It happened in court, on the grounds that it's a sexist policy to have one standard for men's tops and another for women's. QuoteI doubt that a woman is free to flash the pilot in the US. As a matter of fact, I think it would be illegal in most states. Men are just as un-free to flash their sexual parts. What's your point? QuoteMany states in the US do. Men are allowed to be topless in public, women are not. How they have sex and with what implements is stipulated in certain states. Why is it that your rules for women are better than their rules for women? Mostly because our "rules" are long-ago archaic things that are 99.99999% ignored; and they don't forbid things like getting an EDUCATION or getting a JOB, or going out FREE IN PUBLIC. --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #112 February 10, 2006 QuoteIf there were such an anti-extremist ad/protest like the one you're looking for, you'd still find fault with them anyway. Why should I ever bother doing anything? You already know what I'm going to do. --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #113 February 10, 2006 QuoteQuoteAnother good thing about Muslims is their very strict Sharia legal system. Thieves lose a hand. Rape victims are dismissed and publicly humilated.I'm thinking that would be very popular with some folks -- public beheadings, where you can really rain invective down on the guilty-guilty-guilty and really KNOW that they're dead. Wendy W. Why did you skip right over the big elephant in the middle of the post you quoted? Briguy was mocking islam's utter shitting on women. It's what no one wants to talk about. Why? Because it makes islam look as bad as islam should look for being an utterly misogynist religion -- in practice as it is done in islamic countries. (Some of you are going to challenge me to show where in the koran it tells muslims to treat women the way they do, and in point of fact I do not know -- but I do know that they treat women as second-class persons. Is that in dispute?) --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverborg 0 #114 February 10, 2006 Quote(Some of you are going to challenge me to show where in the koran it tells muslims to treat women the way they do, and in point of fact I do not know -- but I do know that they treat women as second-class persons. Is that in dispute?) Not trying to pick a fight with anyone, but the Koran is pretty clear about the treatment of women, and its pretty consistent if not worse than what you would see in Muslim theocracies. Of course I don't have a Koran on me to quote verses, but I have read some of it, and in the small portion I've read, I was pretty astonished by the parts I just stumbled upon. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #115 February 10, 2006 QuoteI actually took a religion class and learned about Muslims. The true Muslims would never be violent and if you were a complete stranger that showed up at their door. They would be so curtious and feed you as if you were on of their own. I knew guy that imediatly converted to Mulsim because while he was in Turkey, he experienced this. He said he was hooked! I don't understand why a person would convert to the religion just because he experienced good treatment by people of that religion. Why not just BE the way they were, ACT the way they did? Do you have to suddenly adopt belief in their GOD and their religious customs? Isn't treating others hospitably just a humanist thing to do? --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ragnarok 0 #116 February 10, 2006 Good things about muslims: Fun to shoot They actually run when they are on fire Pee their pants when confronted with deadly force Can't shoot for shit Most of the time, they blow up the IED while setting them up, hastening their visit with Allah Did I mention they are fun to shoot? (yea, I am in a bad mood. So what? Found out a firend was killed today in Iraq - by an IED. Sue me)_________________________________________ Twin Otter N203-Echo,29 July 2006 Cessna P206 N2537X, 19 April 2008 Blue Skies Forever Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
unformed 0 #117 February 10, 2006 Quote Mostly because our "rules" are long-ago archaic things that are 99.99999% ignored; and they don't forbid things like getting an EDUCATION or getting a JOB, or going out FREE IN PUBLIC. - Just like there are different levels of Christianity with different ideas (ie: some still refuse to believe in evolution), there are different Muslim countries with different ideas on how to do things. Bosnia, for example, I know (for a fact as I was there a few months ago) allows their Muslim women to work, to study, to go out alone. We asked the locals about it, as we saw a Muslim girl working, and they said that different countries have different levels of strictness. Imagine that.This ad space for sale. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
unformed 0 #118 February 10, 2006 Quote (Some of you are going to challenge me to show where in the koran it tells muslims to treat women the way they do, and in point of fact I do not know -- but I do know that they treat women as second-class persons. Is that in dispute?) - The Muslims I've talked would tend to disagree would you.This ad space for sale. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
unformed 0 #119 February 10, 2006 QuoteQuoteI actually took a religion class and learned about Muslims. The true Muslims would never be violent and if you were a complete stranger that showed up at their door. They would be so curtious and feed you as if you were on of their own. I knew guy that imediatly converted to Mulsim because while he was in Turkey, he experienced this. He said he was hooked! I don't understand why a person would convert to the religion just because he experienced good treatment by people of that religion. Why not just BE the way they were, ACT the way they did? Do you have to suddenly adopt belief in their GOD and their religious customs? Isn't treating others hospitably just a humanist thing to do? - It's not just Islam. People do the same thing for Christianity, Hinduism, Judaism, or whatever religion they are into about when they have a major life-changing event. I know a lady who's husband almost died, and when he recovered, she decided to become a Christian, as well as aggressively try to convert everybody she knew. Does that incident have any bearing on what Christianity is as a whole?This ad space for sale. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #120 February 10, 2006 QuoteQuote (Some of you are going to challenge me to show where in the koran it tells muslims to treat women the way they do, and in point of fact I do not know -- but I do know that they treat women as second-class persons. Is that in dispute?) - The Muslims I've talked would tend to disagree would you. I thought it was obvious that I was not talking about the U.S., where they could not legally get away with imposing their religious views on women overall. But in Saudi Arabia? What's the rule there? How about other muslim countries? --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
unformed 0 #121 February 10, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuote (Some of you are going to challenge me to show where in the koran it tells muslims to treat women the way they do, and in point of fact I do not know -- but I do know that they treat women as second-class persons. Is that in dispute?) - The Muslims I've talked would tend to disagree would you. I thought it was obvious that I was not talking about the U.S., where they could not legally get away with imposing their religious views on women overall. But in Saudi Arabia? What's the rule there? How about other muslim countries? - I'm not talking about Muslims in the US. I've been to Bosnia, and see how what rights their womenfolk have, and I've talked to Muslims from Tanzania. For your information, just as people here say that those who blow up abortion clinics in the name of God aren't Christian, the Muslim priest we talked to in Sarajevo made it absolutely clear that the terrorists were not Muslim. Muslim women are supposed to be treated with the highest regard, and in most Muslim countries, are done so. What Iran does, does not necessarily reflect upon anything. How about this: Have you ever been to Saudi Arabia or Iran or Iraq or Turkey or Bosnia or Pakistan or any of the other countries such that you make claims from actual experience, or are you just saying what that you believe from to what the television tells you?This ad space for sale. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,147 #122 February 10, 2006 Several Muslim countries have had woman presidents. We haven't managed that yet (and we have people asking if "Commander in Chief" is a ploy to get folks to accept the possibility of a woman president). The Koran actually does not require a lot of the stuff that folks say it does. It does ascribe a specific value to a woman's testimony (half that of a man's), but in context, at the time the Koran was written a woman's testimony had no value whatsoever. There are women who like wearing the scarf, because they don't end up having that "please talk to me not to my tits" feeling. There are women who don't like wearing it. In most countries, they are free to do whichever, except for that whole parental disapproval thing. Orthodox Jewish women, and some sects of Christians, also cover their hair, but you don't hear about them as much, do you? Edit to add: there is a lot of room between "completely right" and "completely wrong." I can defend that which I don't entirely agree with, and I can attack that which I nearly entirely agree with. But the idea is to end up with more information and better-defined opinions, not just another hook to hang my feelings/thoughts on. No, Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan are not the same. Imagine the US ruled by Pat Robertson and Fred Phelps -- we'd be the same. Read Heinlein's "If This Goes On". Of course, Switzerland didn't give women the right to vote until 1972. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RhondaLea 3 #123 February 10, 2006 No, Wendy, no!! Not facts and logic! Not that! Pleasssssssssssssssseeeeee... If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goofyjumper 0 #124 February 10, 2006 QuoteQuoteI haven’t slept with all Muslim women and don’t make a goal for my self to do so. I think it’s their personal choice... You should stick to the western woman for strippers they tend to take their cloths off much easier. Some will even show you their breasts for 1000 feet of altitude. You start out by respecting a woman's right to make personal choices for herself. But then at the end, you reverse direction, and suggest that there is something demeaning or improper for a female skydiver to make a personal choice to flash her breasts to a jump pilot. So which is it? Do you respect the freedom of personal choice for women such as they have in America, or do you want to keep all women as virtual slaves like in the Middle East so that they don't have any personal choice? And who the heck are you to judge what free women choose to do? Finally, it's a lot easier for a woman to make a personal choice to "take her clothes off", when she won't be stoned to death for the act. Yeah, that's another difference in freedom between them and us. Amen to that! Thanks for pointing that out. I was afraid if I said something then he woud turn me into the angry American that all men hate!----------------- I love and Miss you so much Honey! Orfun #3 ~ Darla Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goofyjumper 0 #125 February 10, 2006 QuoteQuoteI actually took a religion class and learned about Muslims. The true Muslims would never be violent and if you were a complete stranger that showed up at their door. They would be so curtious and feed you as if you were on of their own. I knew guy that imediatly converted to Mulsim because while he was in Turkey, he experienced this. He said he was hooked! I don't understand why a person would convert to the religion just because he experienced good treatment by people of that religion. Why not just BE the way they were, ACT the way they did? Do you have to suddenly adopt belief in their GOD and their religious customs? Isn't treating others hospitably just a humanist thing to do? - Right, but how often does that happen in this country? If I showed up at someone's door here and asked for some hospitality, they would either call the cops or slam the door in my face! Real Christian of them....huh?----------------- I love and Miss you so much Honey! Orfun #3 ~ Darla Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
