Kid uses real-looking fake gun to take hostage in school; is shot by police

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

Student takes hostage with pellet gun, is shot by police

Okay, this link has the CNN story about this. They have a photo with a caption that says, "The Seminole County sheriff said his deputies thought this pellet gun was a 9 mm handgun."

That fuckin' gun looks REAL. I mean, you can see the takedown lever, the hammer is back, the slide stop lever looks real, the magazine release looks real... You can see up into the magazine well, for cripes sake!

I cannot and will not blame a cop for mistaking that for a real gun, and therefore a major deadly threat, and shooting the kid.

What kind of idiot kid pulls such a dumb stunt, anyway? If kids weren't so dumb, and cracked open a newspaper once in a friggin' while, they'd read about similar situations and they'd learn that COPS WILL SHOOT YOU REGARDLESS OF WHETHER YOUR GUN IS A FAKE OR NOT BECAUSE THEY CAN'T RISK THE CHANCE THAT IT'S REAL.

But kids don't bother to read or pay attention to the news, so they never learn stuff like that. And I don't think the schools spend time teaching, "How not to do something stupid enough that the cops'll shoot you for it," because knowing that is taken for granted.

(I've attached the jpg photo from the website.)

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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[shropshire 0]

And they say that you're not s'posed to teach Darwin in schools........

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Shotgun 1]

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What kind of idiot kid pulls such a dumb stunt, anyway?

A suicidal one, apparently.

[RhondaLea 3]

This is just sad...for the kid, his family, the cop.

I feel bad for all of them.

rl

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

[micro 0]

I can't imagine what these folks are going through right now.

I miss Lee.
And JP.
And Chris. And...

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

I look at that photo of the "pellet gun" and I think that CNN screwed up and posted a picture of a REAL handgun -- as in "firearm."

I have never seen such a realistic-looking pellet gun. As I said, that magazine well, those control levers... I really think that's a picture of a real gun, not the pellet gun allegedly taken from the teenager.


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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[lisamariewillbe 1]

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But kids don't bother to read or pay attention to the news, so they never learn stuff like that. And I don't think the schools spend time teaching

If you were to have researched more into the article, you would have noticed that the child was suicidal and stated several times he was not leaving there alive. Its suicide by cop. He wasnt being stupid, he planned it quite well. I feel for his parents and for the pain that child went through to reach the point of suicide.

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[yamtx73 0]

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I look at that photo of the "pellet gun" and I think that CNN screwed up and posted a picture of a REAL handgun -- as in "firearm."

I have never seen such a realistic-looking pellet gun. As I said, that magazine well, those control levers... I really think that's a picture of a real gun, not the pellet gun allegedly taken from the teenager.


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CNN has a video interview showing both the pellet gun next to a real 9mm, it looked identical to the real thing.
Of course you can see for yourself...
http://www.speedytoys.com/shop/item.asp?itemid=216 Hell, it even has all the Beretta trademarks stamped into it....

The only naturals in this sport shit thru feathers...

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

I am not able to watch such videos on the computer I'm using. I'll have to take your word for it.

lmwb, you're right, this matter doesn't really concern "being stupid" -- that would be more of an issue if the kid were just trying to use a fake gun to rob people.

Why does a suicide have to involve innocent people at a school? Forget about stupid, this kid is just SELFISH. HE wants to die, so he is going to endanger the hostage and others by introducing the notion of necessitated police gunfire in the school? He forced the cops' hand: what if the cop's shot had missed the hostage taker and hit the hostage.

Here's an idea: There are plenty of tall-ish buildings around. If you want to kill yourself, forget about guns -- just jump off a roof.

Save others the trouble, and don't put your death on someone else's head because you forced him to kill you.


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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[lisamariewillbe 1]

Thats all good and well, and I admit there are better ways to commit suicide then by cops. However, there were deep issues that gave him this idea in the first place, at this point he was thinking about his own pain and I will not act as if he deserved it. To imagine a child to be so depressed and sad to that point and feel that his only way is to end his life is a very sad event.

As a matter a fact, I feel more for him then I do his parents. I can not imagine a child being so depressed without the parents knowledge of an issue. I hold children to different standards then adults... I am glad that no one else got hurt in this, and that people will heal, however it would have been easier if steps had been taken in his life to prevent such despair.

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[christelsabine 1]

Your are talking about a kid, a 15 y/o.

But did I really expect some witty post from you?
No.

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[Falko 0]

There was a similar case just recently in Moers, Germany. (german article here)

A 52-year old mentally disturbed man was messing around with a real looking softair gun in a schoolyard. Of the 10 LEO's who arrived at the scene one shot him in the fib after giving two warning shots. So I guess he got away lucky. Would have been fine with me if they'd shot him directly, but he didn't appear to have taken hostages. He did point his gun at the LEO though.

Attached is a picture of the softair gun and the original gun it resembles. You cannot tell which is which.

The problem is that in 2002 a certain paragraph of the german weapon law was dropped. That made it legal to sell toy weapons in Germany who resemble original guns in detail. But the trouble with fake weapons is on the rise... now they're talking about reenacting that paragraph.

Ich betrachte die Religion als Krankheit, als Quelle unnennbaren Elends für die menschliche Rasse.
(Bertrand Russell, engl. Philosoph, 1872-1970)

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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To imagine a child to be so depressed and sad to that point and feel that his only way is to end his life is a very sad event.

I must just be really really cynical, because I think that so many kids are so maladjusted and poorly raised that they could get "so depressed and sad to that point" over having their X-Box taken away for misbehavior or bad grades in school.

I don't really put a lot of faith in the idea that every suicidal kid is suicidal for a truly compelling, truly depressing reason worth ending one's life over.

And that's because so many kids these days are so hyper-overindulged that they think the world owes them a living and 24/7 entertainment with zero work expected of them. "Spoiled," I think, is the term I'm thinking of.

I don't know this kid; all of this might not even apply to him; but I have my suspicions.

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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[Falko 0]

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Your are talking about a kid, a 15 y/o.

So what?
I mean, the kid was either fucking stupid or deliberately trying to kill himself. I would never blame the cops!
There's no cure for stupid, at least not in the short term.

Ich betrachte die Religion als Krankheit, als Quelle unnennbaren Elends für die menschliche Rasse.
(Bertrand Russell, engl. Philosoph, 1872-1970)

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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Your are talking about a kid, a 15 y/o.

But did I really expect some witty post from you?
No.

Keep taking your cheap shots at me.

You demonstrate an utter inability to stick with the subject being discussed, in thread after thread. Is your grudge against me really that severe? It might warrant professional intervention.

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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[yamtx73 0]

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There was a similar case just recently in Moers, Germany. (german article here)

A 52-year old mentally disturbed man was messing around with a real looking softair gun in a schoolyard. Of the 10 LEO's who arrived at the scene one shot him in the fib after giving two warning shots. So I guess he got away lucky. Would have been fine with me if they'd shot him directly, but he didn't appear to have taken hostages. He did point his gun at the LEO though.

Attached is a picture of the softair gun and the original gun it resembles. You cannot tell which is which.

The problem is that in 2002 a certain paragraph of the german weapon law was dropped. That made it legal to sell toy weapons in Germany who resemble original guns in detail. But the trouble with fake weapons is on the rise... now they're talking about reenacting that paragraph.

Thanks Falko, that's a much better image of the type of gun used by the boy, you have to look very closely to identify the real gun from the toy.... a cop having one pointed at him doesn't have the time to study it to see if it's a real 9mm or a pellet gun....

The only naturals in this sport shit thru feathers...

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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A 52-year old mentally disturbed man was messing around with a real looking softair gun in a schoolyard. Of the 10 LEO's who arrived at the scene one shot him in the fib after giving two warning shots.

What the hell are they teaching German cops?

Warning shots?!

Shooting in the FIBIA?!

If anything is proof that deadly force (i.e. shooting at all, period) was NOT justified, it was the fact that the cop saw fit to take a risky leg shot -- after firing warning shots.

Apparently he did not believe the gun was real in the first place. If I were a cop -- and I am pretty sure most cops are trained this way -- if someone pointed what I believed was a real gun at me, bullets would be going his way until he appeared utterly unable to continue the threat against my life.


edit: How did that one cop out of ten justify deciding to shoot this guy, anyway? Did they hold an impromptu vote to see, "Hey, vich vonne of uss iss goink to shoot ze nutter to sztop hiss vierdo rrrampage?"


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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[christelsabine 1]

It might warrant professional intervention.

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[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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It might warrant professional intervention.

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Surely not. Your post still are of same low quality like one year ago.

[Falko 0]

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And that's because so many kids these days are so hyper-overindulged that they think the world owes them a living and 24/7 entertainment with zero work expected of them. "Spoiled," I think, is the term I'm thinking of.

I don't believe I'm saying this, but I agree with PJ (at least in that quote).

But there's always a "but" :
The cause of the kid being spoiled is with the parents (major part) and with society (minor part). Well, we do live in a kind of community after all, best parenthood won't change the crap in the media. Is there a translation for "Zeitgeist"? It just sucks...

Ich betrachte die Religion als Krankheit, als Quelle unnennbaren Elends für die menschliche Rasse.
(Bertrand Russell, engl. Philosoph, 1872-1970)

[christelsabine 1]

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Your are talking about a kid, a 15 y/o.

So what?
I mean, the kid was either fucking stupid or deliberately trying to kill himself. I would never blame the cops!

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There's no cure for stupid, at least not in the short term.

Agreed. There are some adults which need longer termed cures.

No blame to the cops.

Just blame it on the parents of that poor kid.


Isch jonn schlofe, naach.

dudeist skydiver # 3105

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[lisamariewillbe 1]

Youd be quite surprised that the kids of today do more for the world through various means then any previous generation. You are being extremely judgemental of which you have little basis for.

How many teenagers have you been exposed to lately?

How petty for someone to assume that this child would commit suicide for "being grounded" because the world owes him 24/7 entertainment.

I have seen teens volunteer at zoos and soup kitchens. I have seen todays youth take a interest in protecting the enviroment, organize toy drives and other charitable actions to better man-kind. I have seen teen agers and kids take an active interest in the future of this world and for you to sit here and generalize a generation is just as bad as all the times you generalize old people, mexicans and drug users.

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[lisamariewillbe 1]

Falko, this kid was not trying to play a game, he was trying to commit suicide... much different then what is being discussed...

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[Falko 0]

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What the hell are they teaching German cops?
Warning shots?!

Generally: yes. But depends on the gravity of the situation.

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Shooting in the FIBIA?!

See above: it depends on the situation.

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If anything is proof that deadly force (i.e. shooting at all, period) was NOT justified, it was the fact that the cop saw fit to take a risky leg shot -- after firing warning shots.

You are guessing. You weren't there, so you cannot say whatever action was appropriate in the situation.

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edit: How did that one cop out of ten justify deciding to shoot this guy, anyway? Did they hold an impromptu vote to see, "Hey, vich vonne of uss iss goink to shoot ze nutter to sztop hiss vierdo rrrampage?"

Because she felt threatened. Your attempt to ricidule her action is pathetic. What's your beef with germans? Do we scare you becuzz off aurr accent antt blond hair?
Relax man...

Ich betrachte die Religion als Krankheit, als Quelle unnennbaren Elends für die menschliche Rasse.
(Bertrand Russell, engl. Philosoph, 1872-1970)

[christelsabine 1]

Zeitgeist?

Just call it spirit of the age, f.e.


TschöMitÖh

dudeist skydiver # 3105