Trent 0 #1 December 20, 2005 Fire their asses and give the starting salary ($47,000) jobs to people who WANT to work and don't think they deserve more just because they're in a union. These guys make respectable wages and are pissed that they'll only get a 10% raise over 3 years, and new guys will have to wait till they're 60 or 65 to collect pension. Ridiculous.Oh, hello again! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #2 December 20, 2005 QuoteFire their asses and give the starting salary ($47,000) jobs to people who WANT to work and don't think they deserve more just because they're in a union. These guys make respectable wages and are pissed that they'll only get a 10% raise over 3 years, and new guys will have to wait till they're 60 or 65 to collect pension. Ridiculous. I'm a far cry from being pro-union, but in all fairness I doubt they think they deserve more money just because they're in a union. I suspect it's more likely that they think they deserve more money and can get it because they're in a union. Honest question - is $47,000 a decent wage in New York? I'm under the impression that's like poverty level...one couldn't possibly ever afford to buy a house or anything like that. As for firing them, I'm down with that. I think all workers should have the right to strike, and all employers should have the right to replace them for doing so...unless the contract that they signed specifically states otherwise (either way). Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tcnelson 1 #3 December 20, 2005 agreed. i think that unions once served a useful purpose but unions are now one of the leading causes of companies and corps. being brought to their knees. look at gm."Don't talk to me like that assface...I don't work for you yet." - Fletch NBFT, Deseoso Rodriguez RB#1329 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,426 #4 December 20, 2005 >Fire their asses and give the starting salary ($47,000) jobs to people who WANT to work . . . I'm with you there. The reason this won't happen is that they know it will take a week just to get new people trained enough to run the system - and the people who have been fired will sabotage the system before they let that happen. (For an example of what operators need to know - check out the link below. That's why it will take a week to get even minimally trained operators back on trains.) http://www.nycsubway.org/tech/signals/homesig.html#aspects Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trent 0 #5 December 20, 2005 When I was in NY last week, this was the talk of the town... I said to my friends, "Make a statement that says any striking workers will be fired. If you want to keep your job, work and we'll work with you. Otherwise, we'll hire people who want to work." It's NY, they can bring in retired workers or managers to run the trains... sure, it'd suck for a week, but it's better than letting the union gain more power. As for $47,000 being a living wage. Sure it is, even in NY. You don't have to live in Manhattan. Now if you have 7 kids, it might not be enough. I know a lot of people at or below that salary level and they're making it fine in NY, some even in Manhattan. By the way, it IS illegal for these guys to strike, just like the ATC people back in the 80's. Fire 'em.Oh, hello again! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #6 December 20, 2005 Rental for a single bedroom in someones house even in the other 4 boroughs is not cheap. My GF's old roommate just rented a room for either $700 or $800 a month in Queens and she considered it a smoking deal. A married couple or even a parent could not find something sub $1000 a month. Unless you happen to be in a rent controlled housing unit prices are just at nose bleed levels. Even hotel rooms are stupidly expensive.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,426 #7 December 20, 2005 >Rental for a single bedroom in someones house even in the other 4 >boroughs is not cheap. All depends where you live and how lucky you are. An old girlfriend of mine has a two bedroom, two bath apartment in Chelsea (downtown Manhattan, near Greenwich Village) for $620 a month. Of course she's been there for 20 years and it's rent-controlled. She sublets the other room out for $700 a month. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trent 0 #8 December 20, 2005 You CAN make it on $47,000 a year in NY. You can find good, cheaper apartments... it just requires a commute. Trust me, I did it for years. These guys are NOT in a position to DEMAND a bigger raise than they're getting.Oh, hello again! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
claneshark 0 #9 December 20, 2005 Am I the only one here who is pro-union? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GTAVercetti 0 #10 December 20, 2005 QuoteRental for a single bedroom in someones house even in the other 4 boroughs is not cheap. My GF's old roommate just rented a room for either $700 or $800 a month in Queens and she considered it a smoking deal. A married couple or even a parent could not find something sub $1000 a month. Unless you happen to be in a rent controlled housing unit prices are just at nose bleed levels. Even hotel rooms are stupidly expensive. I just did a cursory search for apartments in NY. Found one in Manhattan for $401-$655. $47,000 is plenty with that rent...the rent could even be a little higher. I have done it in my area AND started skydiving at the same time. There were also some that require a small commute, but that is what you have to deal with sometimes -- I do. Let's also remember that the $47,000 is the STARTING figure. Not necessarily what they actually make.Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Channman 2 #11 December 20, 2005 Trent, with you Bro, fire their asses. Unions are now known more for cost overruns poor workmenship and driving corportations into the ground. General Motors union saw the writing on the wall and were compelled to comply or face even larger layoffs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #12 December 20, 2005 I spent a week commutting in from JFK to Jamacia to Midtown to save a few bucks on a hotel. Not really something I'd do again if I was to move to the area.. but it was interesting to see how far some people are willing to travel to have affordable housing. The E train sucks since its the longest length of track in the subway system and if a rail breaks it has to go local the whole way and is an hour trip from Jamaca in to 53rd. I know.. it broke when I was there. I can understand some of their requests like the increased security training, better equipment and things like that. What would the reaction have been if the airlines said to the pilots that they would not reenforce the doors or provide any security training to pilots asking for it? Some of the trains in useage are from the 70's and have been retrofitted as well as can be to comply with the increased standerds that are now required. The MTA had a surplus last year of 1 billion dollars. putting just some of that money towards security training can assist in stopping the next terror threat. Is'nt that what we should all be worried about anyways is the terrorists? Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterblaster72 0 #13 December 20, 2005 QuoteFire their asses and give the starting salary ($47,000) jobs to people who WANT to work and don't think they deserve more just because they're in a union. I can bet you the majority of the people on strike don't even want to be on strike -- they want and need to work, but since they're stuck under the terms of the union they have no choice. Oftentimes in these cases it's about the higher-ups in the unions playing their games and not about the thousands of workers all being greedy people. Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trent 0 #14 December 20, 2005 QuoteI spent a week commutting in from JFK to Jamacia to Midtown to save a few bucks on a hotel. Not really something I'd do again if I was to move to the area.. but it was interesting to see how far some people are willing to travel to have affordable housing. The E train sucks since its the longest length of track in the subway system and if a rail breaks it has to go local the whole way and is an hour trip from Jamaca in to 53rd. I know.. it broke when I was there. I bet the people in LA hate getting stuck in traffic too. What's the point? You live in NY, you deal with what you have to do. I lived in Jersey, 4 MILES from Manhattan, it ALWAYS took 45 minutes to an hour to get to work. It's just what I did to save some cash. It's not a big deal, and millions of people in NY do it every day. Lots of them even make less than $47,000. QuoteI can understand some of their requests like the increased security training, better equipment and things like that. What would the reaction have been if the airlines said to the pilots that they would not reenforce the doors or provide any security training to pilots asking for it? Some of the trains in useage are from the 70's and have been retrofitted as well as can be to comply with the increased standerds that are now required. The MTA had a surplus last year of 1 billion dollars. putting just some of that money towards security training can assist in stopping the next terror threat. Is'nt that what we should all be worried about anyways is the terrorists? You REALLY think this issue is about "security training"? The drivers are already locked in a metal room. Were they going to get hand-to-hand combat training? This is about the 1 billion dollar surplus that didn't translate into the workers getting more money and bonuses. Follow the money. And as for the top-union-dogs forcing people who want to work to strike... well, that's just one of MANY reasons that unions suck. That's why I think the MTA should give people the opportunity to work through the strike and keep their jobs. If enough people did it, it just might destroy the union to the benefit of EVERYONE.Oh, hello again! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #15 December 20, 2005 I don’t know man I have lived in NY my whole life. Nothing in NY is cheep. Do we want to survive or have a normal life? An apartment for two people in an ok neighborhood is more then a 1000 a month a lot more and no I am not talking about Manhattan. 47000 you take home 30000-35000 if you’re lucky. Take at least 1500 a month out for decent apartment that’s 18000 now you have 17K left if you have 35000 after taxes witch you won’t. Is a 100 a week for food (certainly is not going out EVER) ok that’s another 5200. We have 11800.00. Add up car insurance, and other supplies you need to SURVIVE not live just survive you really don’t have shit left.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
claneshark 0 #16 December 20, 2005 Don't you all understand that the truly lazy, corrupt class in this society is the management class of which you seem to be such a proud member? From CEOs of multinational corporations down to owner/managers of small city businesses, the American excecutive and manager is the laughingstock of the world. With their golden parachutes and corrupt financing on the high end to their inept competition against foreign suppliers on the low end, the American executive/management class has shown itself to be the most bungling, selfish segment of this society. From Enron all the way down to the garment factory that makes inferior socks for twice the price of those made in China, they're too dim to commit successful fraud and too unacquainted with real work to succeed even when honest. And you have the gall to insult union workers, in particular union workers who make a vast 100 year old system operate safely and smoothly? Pleeeease. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,426 #17 December 20, 2005 >Do we want to survive or have a normal life? What's a normal life? Steak every night? A big SUV? An HDTV? You do what you choose to do. You can survive in NY on $47,000 a year. If you want to make more, you get a second job, or do well and get promoted, and then move to a nicer apartment. Buy that HDTV. Get a car. Or not; up to you. >Add up car insurance . . . If you live in NYC and get free transportation on the subway, you need a car . . . why? I know a lot of people who live in NYC for years without a car. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdhill 0 #18 December 20, 2005 QuoteDo we want to survive or have a normal life? You want better than that? Don't be a bus driver. JAll that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
likearock 1 #19 December 20, 2005 Quote Don't you all understand that the truly lazy, corrupt class in this society is the management class of which you seem to be such a proud member? Trent, a proud member of the management class? I'm searching the Internet to find a smiley that expresses how hilarious that is. But I'm sure he'll let you know better than I can. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rebecca 0 #20 December 20, 2005 Quote Don't you all understand that the truly lazy, corrupt class in this society is the management class of which you seem to be such a proud member? From CEOs of multinational corporations down to owner/managers of small city businesses, the American excecutive and manager is the laughingstock of the world. With their golden parachutes and corrupt financing on the high end to their inept competition against foreign suppliers on the low end, the American executive/management class has shown itself to be the most bungling, selfish segment of this society. From Enron all the way down to the garment factory that makes inferior socks for twice the price of those made in China, they're too dim to commit successful fraud and too unacquainted with real work to succeed even when honest. And you have the gall to insult union workers, in particular union workers who make a vast 100 year old system operate safely and smoothly? Pleeeease. He just called Trent management. Is that a bannable PA? you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' -- well do you, punk? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
likearock 1 #21 December 20, 2005 QuoteFire their asses and give the starting salary ($47,000) jobs to people who WANT to work and don't think they deserve more just because they're in a union. These guys make respectable wages and are pissed that they'll only get a 10% raise over 3 years, and new guys will have to wait till they're 60 or 65 to collect pension. Ridiculous. Don't forget completely free healthcare. You don't find that anywhere in the private sector. I guess I picked a good time to go to Eloy! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rebecca 0 #22 December 20, 2005 QuoteQuote Don't you all understand that the truly lazy, corrupt class in this society is the management class of which you seem to be such a proud member? Trent, a proud member of the management class? I'm searching the Internet to find a smiley that expresses how hilarious that is. But I'm sure he'll let you know better than I can. Actually, the funny thing is, except for Trent = management, I don't entirely disagree... you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' -- well do you, punk? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdhill 0 #23 December 20, 2005 Can you be management and oppressed worker at the same time?All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rebecca 0 #24 December 20, 2005 QuoteCan you be management and oppressed worker at the same time? Yep, happens all the time. That way, the shit flies at you from all directions instead of just from on high... I think you had to have been a really really really nasty person in a former life to get karma-slapped like that... well, that or masochistic... you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' -- well do you, punk? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tcnelson 1 #25 December 20, 2005 Quote Don't you all understand that the truly lazy, corrupt class in this society is the management class of which you seem to be such a proud member? From CEOs of multinational corporations down to owner/managers of small city businesses, the American excecutive and manager is the laughingstock of the world. With their golden parachutes and corrupt financing on the high end to their inept competition against foreign suppliers on the low end, the American executive/management class has shown itself to be the most bungling, selfish segment of this society. From Enron all the way down to the garment factory that makes inferior socks for twice the price of those made in China, they're too dim to commit successful fraud and too unacquainted with real work to succeed even when honest. And you have the gall to insult union workers, in particular union workers who make a vast 100 year old system operate safely and smoothly? Pleeeease. i think you've been listening to your own press for some time now. you can't seriously be lumping all of the management/business owners into that description...can you? the fact is that unions are now businesses all of their own accord. their mission used to be making sure that employees weren't screwed by their employers; now, they're in business to make money and they seem to do quite well in that task through exorbitant union dues all the while crippling the very businesses that provide a pseudo-need for their existance."Don't talk to me like that assface...I don't work for you yet." - Fletch NBFT, Deseoso Rodriguez RB#1329 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
