kelpdiver 2 #51 December 12, 2005 Quote 3. For some idiotic reason he has become the "cause of the week" for the left-wingers, who don't seem to give a damn about his victims. 4. Somehow, some people have gotten the idea that he's a great guy for saying that kids should not join the gangs he helped establish and proliferate. These people who are calling for commutation to life in prison are not arguing it based on the idea that the death penalty is wrong. I could respect that if they did. They are arguing that he is somehow a changed man who will make the world a better place. Don't be mistaken, it's all about the belief that the death penalty is wrong. Usually they'll protest on the notion that the evidence isn't solid, but in this case that's a weaker case than usual, so they've siezed on the unique angle that he's a new man, doing good for the world. I wonder how different the process would be each time if San Quentin weren't here in the Bay Area, where opposition to the death penalty is much higher than for the rest of the state. If it were at Folson instead, how many people would show up for the vigil? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #52 December 12, 2005 Quote>Without a doubt they meet the definition of terrorist. And thus we see how the Patriot Act provisions creep into mainstream law. Hey, if we can imprison terrorists without a trial, why not domestic terrorists? After all - why wait until they actually burn the city down before we take action? Why not protect the law-abiding citizens and take action BEFORE they do something like this? It only makes sense. Sorry, Bill, we don't even need the Patriot Act to do this. We've already held anti abortionists accountable for encouraging the killing of doctors. Anyone *encouraging* rioting in response to the execution is on shaky ground as well. 1st Amendment doesn't protect such speech. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorbie 0 #53 December 12, 2005 QuoteQuoteDon't worry this is opening a few people's eyes. Let the activists rail against justice. If they were smart they'd find a better cause than this. What part of my post did you not understand? rl When I'm talking to you you'll know. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waltappel 1 #54 December 13, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuoteSilly negroes. Walt Tricks are for kids! mh . ... that's digusting, disgusting and sad. there are so many issues that surround this "topic" (racial, political, judicial, etc..) that the only way for you to cope with your inability to interpret what actually is going on is slander. However, it's my fault for being nieve enough to expect somewhat of a higher caliber of class and character within in the skydiving community more than the rest of the world. and if your going to say it's a joke.... THATS NOT A JOKE!!! (((THAT!!!))) is a severe! behavioral disorder... that shits not funny! *bitch-smack* Look at it any way you want. Anything I could possibly say pales in comparison to the dumbass media circus that is surrounding this scumbag. It's difficult to say anything intelligent about it because it seems like one big sick joke. The guy deserves NO sympathy. Anyone who sympathizes with him is very misguided (at best) IMO. Anyone who commits or threatens to commit vandalism or violent crime in response to his execution is hardly any better than he is. I didn't mean my post to be funny. I wasn't laughing when I posted it. I was disgusted that *anyone* could get behind such a scumball, claiming he had turned into some sort of hero. He's not anywhere close to being a hero, IMO. When I posted that it was one of those moments where you throw up your hands and wonder just how much lower people can sink. That was not even a little bit clear in my post and I apologize if I offended you. I'm still disgusted, though. If you are wondering why the reference to "Negroes", it was pretty much a reference to the Rodney King riots. I understand the situations are nowhere near the same, but the whole idea of rioting in response to a perceived injustice just strikes me as something pissed off people do because they think they will be able to get away with it. Screw that. And truth be told, I don't think any white guy who committed the same crimes would become such a media darling. Walt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RhondaLea 3 #55 December 13, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuoteDon't worry this is opening a few people's eyes. Let the activists rail against justice. If they were smart they'd find a better cause than this. What part of my post did you not understand? rl When I'm talking to you you'll know. Gee, my name was in the subject line and everything, and the "in reply to" link took me back to my post. Silly me. I must be confused. rlIf you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorbie 0 #56 December 13, 2005 QuoteQuote When I'm talking to you you'll know. Gee, my name was in the subject line and everything, and the "in reply to" link took me back to my post. Nope, sorry I just didn't reply to you, but you made me do a double take. You are confused. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
artistcalledian 0 #57 December 13, 2005 Burn Hollywoord, burn ________________________________________ drive it like you stole it and f*ck the police Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RhondaLea 3 #58 December 13, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuote When I'm talking to you you'll know. Gee, my name was in the subject line and everything, and the "in reply to" link took me back to my post. Nope, sorry I just didn't reply to you, but you made me do a double take. You are confused. You're right, I am. I thought you had replied to my post, but you were actually replying to Walt's reply to me...yada, yada, yada. Sorry. rlIf you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorbie 0 #59 December 13, 2005 No worries. You made me look. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dorbie 0 #60 December 13, 2005 STATEMENT OF DECISION FROM GOV. ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER ON REQUEST FOR CLEMENCY BY STANLEY WILLIAMS Stanley Williams has been convicted of brutally murdering four people during two separate armed robberies in February and March 1979. A California jury sentenced him to death, and he is scheduled for execution on December 13, 2005. During the early morning hours of February 28, 1979, Williams and three others went on a robbery spree. Around 4 a.m., they entered a 7-Eleven store where Albert Owens was working by himself. Here, Williams, armed with his pumpaction shotgun, ordered Owens to a backroom and shot him twice in the back while he lay face down on the floor. Williams and his accomplices made off with about $120 from the store's cash register. After leaving the 7-Eleven store, Williams told the others that he killed Albert Owens because he did not want any witnesses. Later that morning, Williams recounted shooting Albert Owens, saying "You should have heard the way he sounded when I shot him." Williams then made a growling noise and laughed for five to six minutes. On March 11, 1979, less than two weeks later, Williams, again armed with his shotgun, robbed a family-operated motel and shot and killed three members of the family: (1) the father, Yen-I Yang, who was shot once in the torso and once in the arm while he was laying on a sofa; (2) the mother, Tsai-Shai Lin, who was shot once in the abdomen and once in the back; and (3) the daughter, Yee-Chen Lin, who was shot once in her face. For these murders, Williams made away with approximately $100 in cash. Williams also told others about the details of these murders and referred to the victims as "Buddha-heads." Now, his appeals exhausted, Williams seeks mercy in the form of a petition for clemency. He claims that he deserves clemency because he has undergone a personal transformation and is redeemed, and because there were problems with his trial that undermine the fairness of the jury's verdict. Williams' case has been thoroughly reviewed in the 24 years since his convictions and death sentence. In addition to his direct appeal to the California Supreme Court, Williams has filed five state habeas corpus petitions, each of which has been rejected. The federal courts have also reviewed his convictions and death sentence. Williams filed a federal habeas corpus petition, and the U.S. District Court denied it. The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals confirmed this decision. In all, Williams' case has been the subject of at least eight substantive judicial opinions. The claim that Williams received an unfair trial was the subject of this extensive litigation in the state and federal courts. The courts considered the sufficiency of his counsel, the strategic nature of counsel's decisions during the penalty phase of Williams' trial, the adequacy and reliability of testimony from informants, whether Williams was prejudiced by security measures employed during his trial, whether he was competent to stand trial, whether the prosecutor impermissibly challenged potential jurors on the basis of race, and whether his jury was improperly influenced by Williams' threats made against them. There is no need to rehash or second guess the myriad findings of the courts over 24 years of litigation. The possible irregularities in Williams' trial have been thoroughly and carefully reviewed by the courts, and there is no reason to disturb the judicial decisions that uphold the jury's decisions that he is guilty of these four murders and should pay with his life. The basis of Williams' clemency request is not innocence. Rather, the basis of the request is the "personal redemption Stanley Williams has experienced and the positive impact of the message he sends." But Williams' claim of innocence remains a key factor to evaluating his claim of personal redemption. It is impossible to separate Williams' claim of innocence from his claim of redemption. Cumulatively, the evidence demonstrating Williams is guilty of these murders is strong and compelling. It includes: (1) eyewitness testimony of Alfred Coward, who was one of Williams' accomplices in the 7-Eleven shooting; (2) ballistics evidence proving that the shotgun casing found at the scene of the motel murders was fired from Williams' shotgun; (3) testimony from Samuel Coleman that Williams confessed that he had robbed and killed some people on Vermont Street (where the motel was located); (4) testimony from James and Esther Garrett that Williams admitted to them that he committed both sets of murders; and (5) testimony from jailhouse informant George Oglesby that Williams confessed to the motel murders and conspired with Oglesby to escape from county jail. The trial evidence is bolstered by information from Tony Sims, who has admitted to being an accomplice in the 7-Eleven murder. Sims did not testify against Williams at trial, but he was later convicted of murder for his role in Albert Owens' death. During his trial and subsequent parole hearings, Sims has repeatedly stated under oath that Williams was the shooter. Based on the cumulative weight of the evidence, there is no reason to second guess the jury's decision of guilt or raise significant doubts or serious reservations about Williams' convictions and death sentence. He murdered Albert Owens and Yen-I Yang, Yee-Chen Lin and Tsai-Shai Lin in cold blood in two separate incidents that were just weeks apart. But Williams claims that he is particularly deserving of clemency because he has reformed and been redeemed for his violent past. Williams' claim of redemption triggers an inquiry into his atonement for all his transgressions. Williams protests that he has no reason to apologize for these murders because he did not commit them. But he is guilty and a close look at Williams' post-arrest and postconviction conduct tells a story that is different from redemption. After Williams was arrested for these crimes, and while he was awaiting trial, he conspired to escape from custody by blowing up a jail transportation bus and killing the deputies guarding the bus. There are detailed escape plans in Williams' own handwriting. Williams never executed this plan, but his co-conspirator implicated Williams in the scheme. The fact that Williams conspired to murder several others to effectuate his escape from jail while awaiting his murder trial is consistent with guilt, not innocence. And the timing of the motel murders--less than two weeks after the murder of Albert Owens--shows a callous disregard for human life. Williams has written books that instruct readers to avoid the gang lifestyle and to stay out of prison. In 1996, a Tookie Speaks Out Against Gang Violence children's book series was published. In 1998, "Life in Prison" was published. In 2004, Williams published a memoir entitled "Blue Rage, Black Redemption." He has also recently (since 1995) tried to preach a message of gang avoidance and peacemaking, including a protocol for street peace to be used by opposing gangs. It is hard to assess the effect of such efforts in concrete terms, but the continued pervasiveness of gang violence leads one to question the efficacy of Williams' message. Williams co-founded the Crips, a notorious street gang that has contributed and continues to contribute to predatory and exploitative violence. The dedication of Williams' book "Life in Prison" casts significant doubt on his personal redemption. This book was published in 1998, several years after Williams' claimed redemptive experience. Specifically, the book is dedicated to "Nelson Mandela, Angela Davis, Malcolm X, Assata Shakur, Geronimo Ji Jaga Pratt, Ramona Africa, John Africa, Leonard Peltier, Dhoruba Al-Mujahid, George Jackson, Mumia Abu-Jamal, and the countless other men, women, and youths who have to endure the hellish oppression of living behind bars." The mix of individuals on this list is curious. Most have violent pasts and some have been convicted of committing heinous murders, including the killing of law enforcement. But the inclusion of George Jackson on this list defies reason and is a significant indicator that Williams is not reformed and that he still sees violence and lawlessness as a legitimate means to address societal problems. There is also little mention or atonement in his writings and his plea for clemency of the countless murders committed by the Crips following the lifestyle Williams once espoused. The senseless killing that has ruined many families, particularly in African-American communities, in the name of the Crips and gang warfare is a tragedy of our modern culture. One would expect more explicit and direct reference to this byproduct of his former lifestyle in Williams' writings and apology for this tragedy, but it exists only through innuendo and inference. Is Williams' redemption complete and sincere, or is it just a hollow promise? Stanley Williams insists he is innocent, and that he will not and should not apologize or otherwise atone for the murders of the four victims in this case. Without an apology and atonement for these senseless and brutal killings there can be no redemption. In this case, the one thing that would be the clearest indication of complete remorse and full redemption is the one thing Williams will not do. Clemency decisions are always difficult, and this one is no exception. After reviewing and weighing the showing Williams has made in support of his clemency request, there is nothing that compels me to nullify the jury's decision of guilt and sentence and the many court decisions during the last 24 years upholding the jury's decision with a grant of clemency. Therefore, based on the totality of circumstances in this case, Williams' request for clemency is denied. DATED: December 12, 2005 ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER Governor of the State of California Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SudsyFist 0 #61 December 13, 2005 QuoteBurn Hollywoord, burn Taking down Tinseltown... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites gravityizsexy 0 #62 December 13, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteSilly negroes. Walt Tricks are for kids! mh . ... that's digusting, disgusting and sad. there are so many issues that surround this "topic" (racial, political, judicial, etc..) that the only way for you to cope with your inability to interpret what actually is going on is slander. However, it's my fault for being nieve enough to expect somewhat of a higher caliber of class and character within in the skydiving community more than the rest of the world. and if your going to say it's a joke.... THATS NOT A JOKE!!! (((THAT!!!))) is a severe! behavioral disorder... that shits not funny! *bitch-smack* Look at it any way you want. Anything I could possibly say pales in comparison to the dumbass media circus that is surrounding this scumbag. It's difficult to say anything intelligent about it because it seems like one big sick joke. The guy deserves NO sympathy. Anyone who sympathizes with him is very misguided (at best) IMO. Anyone who commits or threatens to commit vandalism or violent crime in response to his execution is hardly any better than he is. I didn't mean my post to be funny. I wasn't laughing when I posted it. I was disgusted that *anyone* could get behind such a scumball, claiming he had turned into some sort of hero. He's not anywhere close to being a hero, IMO. When I posted that it was one of those moments where you throw up your hands and wonder just how much lower people can sink. That was not even a little bit clear in my post and I apologize if I offended you. I'm still disgusted, though. If you are wondering why the reference to "Negroes", it was pretty much a reference to the Rodney King riots. I understand the situations are nowhere near the same, but the whole idea of rioting in response to a perceived injustice just strikes me as something pissed off people do because they think they will be able to get away with it. Screw that. And truth be told, I don't think any white guy who committed the same crimes would become such a media darling. Walt replying goes against my better judgement... but with regards to your last statements I have a feel of where your comming from. (We wouldn't see a mob of angry whites hounding the streets for revenge or revocation)...or are they? IMHO alot have been... demonstrated by the 2nd and 3rd post of this topic.. Reguardless of how you break it down, how you placed your words in commune says alot. And as far as this tookie williams character... fuck him, he's no more than a reformed murderer like there have been many times before. Some live, some die... From my methods of thinking which are unorthodox as hell and I let a lot of truth out about my person when I say this... that, things could not be going better for the associated networks working overtime to make sure this sorry excuse for news gets maximum coverage. Let's say tookie williams get executed and riots ensue... Property damage amongst a huge amount of variables generate finance aid that literally funnels into the exhausted state that the fucking TERMINATOR governs.. felony arrests are made in bulk overfilling the already overfilled prisons thus capping out the supply and demand peak on prisons and prisoners... prisons cost money... guess who pays for that? SOooooooo.... taxes get higher, by the time your money makes it's way through the federal and state programs to the actual contracts that build the damaged property, prisons, etc.. 3-11 cents out of your dollar would have made its way the cause that could have prevented these practices in the first place. I mean honestly 42 YEARS!!!!... shiiiieeeeetttttt..... So If I was one to profit of these potential contracts.. I would probably wants this to happen. But my point is... ahhhh fuck it... I love skydiving, I can't do this speaker's corner right now... I'm going out... but please, respect your FELLOW americans. It would benefit you in ways you never know.... ciao, I'm out Tony "'Someday is not a day in my week'" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites diablopilot 2 #63 December 13, 2005 QuoteThese people who are calling for commutation to life in prison are not arguing it based on the idea that the death penalty is wrong. I could respect that if they did. They are arguing that he is somehow a changed man who will make the world a better place. Bingo.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites diablopilot 2 #64 December 13, 2005 QuoteLet's say tookie williams get executed and riots ensue... Property damage amongst a huge amount of variables generate finance aid that literally funnels into the exhausted state that the fucking TERMINATOR governs.. felony arrests are made in bulk overfilling the already overfilled prisons thus capping out the supply and demand peak on prisons and prisoners... prisons cost money... guess who pays for that? SOooooooo.... taxes get higher, by the time your money makes it's way through the federal and state programs to the actual contracts that build the damaged property, prisons, etc.. 3-11 cents out of your dollar would have made its way the cause that could have prevented these practices in the first place. I mean honestly 42 YEARS!!!!... shiiiieeeeetttttt..... With logic like that, maybe you should be on the next flight hijacked by a terrorist organization. I'm sure they'd be happy to have you in the front seat playing a good, quiet, and obidient sheep to their demands.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,648 #65 December 13, 2005 Quote These people who are calling for commutation to life in prison are not arguing it based on the idea that the death penalty is wrong. I could respect that if they did. They are arguing that he is somehow a changed man who will make the world a better place. I think the death penalty is wrong. Always.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites micro 0 #66 December 13, 2005 QuoteI think the death penalty is wrong. Always. Why? I happen to agree w/ you, mostly, regarding this issue, but why do you believe thus? I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Erroll 49 #67 December 13, 2005 Quote (We wouldn't see a mob of angry whites hounding the streets for revenge or revocation) Really? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,435 #68 December 13, 2005 Your one warning. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites artistcalledian 0 #69 December 13, 2005 Has Hollywood gone up in smoke yet? are the apes of L.A running around torching everything?________________________________________ drive it like you stole it and f*ck the police Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RhondaLea 3 #70 December 13, 2005 QuoteWith logic like that... I think his point was that it's less expensive in the long run to alleviate the underlying social problem than to clean up in the aftermath when it blows. We apply an awful lot of bandaids to hemorrhages. It's a waste of bandaids. rlIf you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Michele 1 #71 December 13, 2005 Well, Tookie has been executed. And so far, there are no reports of violence. It's 6:20 am, so who knows what will happen. But I'm thinking maybe it's not going to be the full scale rioting we saw in '92 and '65. Maybe there won't be any rioting at all... Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites micro 0 #72 December 13, 2005 i thought that if rioting were to occur, it would happen in the middle of the night right after he died. if it hasn't happened yet, i don't think it will... I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Guest #73 December 13, 2005 QuoteWell, Tookie has been executed. And so far, there are no reports of violence. It's 6:20 am, so who knows what will happen. But I'm thinking maybe it's not going to be the full scale rioting we saw in '92 and '65. Maybe there won't be any rioting at all... Ciels- Michele It's only because it's the wrong time of year, and although there is an imbecilic perception of "injustice" among those who supported that now-dead beast, many recognize him for what he was - a rabid, brutal thug whose passing leaves the world no poorer a place; indeed, the air is a little cleaner now that he's not breathing it. This is a far cry from the Rodney King fiasco. mh ."The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites eflynn 0 #74 December 13, 2005 Nobody was ever going to riot regardless of what may have been written online or said on CNN. Think about it... He founded the crips over 30 years ago and has since renounced gang life and everything associated with it. In doing so he put himself at odds with everyone who continues to bang. Given this you have a few groups of people. 1. Young crips who have no idea who he is or really don't care AND look at him as being a traitor. They're definitely not going to riot. Why would they? 2. Bloods who would love to see him die based on the fact he created their enemy faction. 3. Non gang members who feel he should have been granted clemency for whatever reason. These folks aren't generally the types that riot when things don't go their way. Basically, there's a huge disconnect between anyone who might have rioted and the given conditions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites diablopilot 2 #75 December 13, 2005 What did I say?---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 Next Page 3 of 4 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. 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dorbie 0 #60 December 13, 2005 STATEMENT OF DECISION FROM GOV. ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER ON REQUEST FOR CLEMENCY BY STANLEY WILLIAMS Stanley Williams has been convicted of brutally murdering four people during two separate armed robberies in February and March 1979. A California jury sentenced him to death, and he is scheduled for execution on December 13, 2005. During the early morning hours of February 28, 1979, Williams and three others went on a robbery spree. Around 4 a.m., they entered a 7-Eleven store where Albert Owens was working by himself. Here, Williams, armed with his pumpaction shotgun, ordered Owens to a backroom and shot him twice in the back while he lay face down on the floor. Williams and his accomplices made off with about $120 from the store's cash register. After leaving the 7-Eleven store, Williams told the others that he killed Albert Owens because he did not want any witnesses. Later that morning, Williams recounted shooting Albert Owens, saying "You should have heard the way he sounded when I shot him." Williams then made a growling noise and laughed for five to six minutes. On March 11, 1979, less than two weeks later, Williams, again armed with his shotgun, robbed a family-operated motel and shot and killed three members of the family: (1) the father, Yen-I Yang, who was shot once in the torso and once in the arm while he was laying on a sofa; (2) the mother, Tsai-Shai Lin, who was shot once in the abdomen and once in the back; and (3) the daughter, Yee-Chen Lin, who was shot once in her face. For these murders, Williams made away with approximately $100 in cash. Williams also told others about the details of these murders and referred to the victims as "Buddha-heads." Now, his appeals exhausted, Williams seeks mercy in the form of a petition for clemency. He claims that he deserves clemency because he has undergone a personal transformation and is redeemed, and because there were problems with his trial that undermine the fairness of the jury's verdict. Williams' case has been thoroughly reviewed in the 24 years since his convictions and death sentence. In addition to his direct appeal to the California Supreme Court, Williams has filed five state habeas corpus petitions, each of which has been rejected. The federal courts have also reviewed his convictions and death sentence. Williams filed a federal habeas corpus petition, and the U.S. District Court denied it. The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals confirmed this decision. In all, Williams' case has been the subject of at least eight substantive judicial opinions. The claim that Williams received an unfair trial was the subject of this extensive litigation in the state and federal courts. The courts considered the sufficiency of his counsel, the strategic nature of counsel's decisions during the penalty phase of Williams' trial, the adequacy and reliability of testimony from informants, whether Williams was prejudiced by security measures employed during his trial, whether he was competent to stand trial, whether the prosecutor impermissibly challenged potential jurors on the basis of race, and whether his jury was improperly influenced by Williams' threats made against them. There is no need to rehash or second guess the myriad findings of the courts over 24 years of litigation. The possible irregularities in Williams' trial have been thoroughly and carefully reviewed by the courts, and there is no reason to disturb the judicial decisions that uphold the jury's decisions that he is guilty of these four murders and should pay with his life. The basis of Williams' clemency request is not innocence. Rather, the basis of the request is the "personal redemption Stanley Williams has experienced and the positive impact of the message he sends." But Williams' claim of innocence remains a key factor to evaluating his claim of personal redemption. It is impossible to separate Williams' claim of innocence from his claim of redemption. Cumulatively, the evidence demonstrating Williams is guilty of these murders is strong and compelling. It includes: (1) eyewitness testimony of Alfred Coward, who was one of Williams' accomplices in the 7-Eleven shooting; (2) ballistics evidence proving that the shotgun casing found at the scene of the motel murders was fired from Williams' shotgun; (3) testimony from Samuel Coleman that Williams confessed that he had robbed and killed some people on Vermont Street (where the motel was located); (4) testimony from James and Esther Garrett that Williams admitted to them that he committed both sets of murders; and (5) testimony from jailhouse informant George Oglesby that Williams confessed to the motel murders and conspired with Oglesby to escape from county jail. The trial evidence is bolstered by information from Tony Sims, who has admitted to being an accomplice in the 7-Eleven murder. Sims did not testify against Williams at trial, but he was later convicted of murder for his role in Albert Owens' death. During his trial and subsequent parole hearings, Sims has repeatedly stated under oath that Williams was the shooter. Based on the cumulative weight of the evidence, there is no reason to second guess the jury's decision of guilt or raise significant doubts or serious reservations about Williams' convictions and death sentence. He murdered Albert Owens and Yen-I Yang, Yee-Chen Lin and Tsai-Shai Lin in cold blood in two separate incidents that were just weeks apart. But Williams claims that he is particularly deserving of clemency because he has reformed and been redeemed for his violent past. Williams' claim of redemption triggers an inquiry into his atonement for all his transgressions. Williams protests that he has no reason to apologize for these murders because he did not commit them. But he is guilty and a close look at Williams' post-arrest and postconviction conduct tells a story that is different from redemption. After Williams was arrested for these crimes, and while he was awaiting trial, he conspired to escape from custody by blowing up a jail transportation bus and killing the deputies guarding the bus. There are detailed escape plans in Williams' own handwriting. Williams never executed this plan, but his co-conspirator implicated Williams in the scheme. The fact that Williams conspired to murder several others to effectuate his escape from jail while awaiting his murder trial is consistent with guilt, not innocence. And the timing of the motel murders--less than two weeks after the murder of Albert Owens--shows a callous disregard for human life. Williams has written books that instruct readers to avoid the gang lifestyle and to stay out of prison. In 1996, a Tookie Speaks Out Against Gang Violence children's book series was published. In 1998, "Life in Prison" was published. In 2004, Williams published a memoir entitled "Blue Rage, Black Redemption." He has also recently (since 1995) tried to preach a message of gang avoidance and peacemaking, including a protocol for street peace to be used by opposing gangs. It is hard to assess the effect of such efforts in concrete terms, but the continued pervasiveness of gang violence leads one to question the efficacy of Williams' message. Williams co-founded the Crips, a notorious street gang that has contributed and continues to contribute to predatory and exploitative violence. The dedication of Williams' book "Life in Prison" casts significant doubt on his personal redemption. This book was published in 1998, several years after Williams' claimed redemptive experience. Specifically, the book is dedicated to "Nelson Mandela, Angela Davis, Malcolm X, Assata Shakur, Geronimo Ji Jaga Pratt, Ramona Africa, John Africa, Leonard Peltier, Dhoruba Al-Mujahid, George Jackson, Mumia Abu-Jamal, and the countless other men, women, and youths who have to endure the hellish oppression of living behind bars." The mix of individuals on this list is curious. Most have violent pasts and some have been convicted of committing heinous murders, including the killing of law enforcement. But the inclusion of George Jackson on this list defies reason and is a significant indicator that Williams is not reformed and that he still sees violence and lawlessness as a legitimate means to address societal problems. There is also little mention or atonement in his writings and his plea for clemency of the countless murders committed by the Crips following the lifestyle Williams once espoused. The senseless killing that has ruined many families, particularly in African-American communities, in the name of the Crips and gang warfare is a tragedy of our modern culture. One would expect more explicit and direct reference to this byproduct of his former lifestyle in Williams' writings and apology for this tragedy, but it exists only through innuendo and inference. Is Williams' redemption complete and sincere, or is it just a hollow promise? Stanley Williams insists he is innocent, and that he will not and should not apologize or otherwise atone for the murders of the four victims in this case. Without an apology and atonement for these senseless and brutal killings there can be no redemption. In this case, the one thing that would be the clearest indication of complete remorse and full redemption is the one thing Williams will not do. Clemency decisions are always difficult, and this one is no exception. After reviewing and weighing the showing Williams has made in support of his clemency request, there is nothing that compels me to nullify the jury's decision of guilt and sentence and the many court decisions during the last 24 years upholding the jury's decision with a grant of clemency. Therefore, based on the totality of circumstances in this case, Williams' request for clemency is denied. DATED: December 12, 2005 ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER Governor of the State of California Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SudsyFist 0 #61 December 13, 2005 QuoteBurn Hollywoord, burn Taking down Tinseltown... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gravityizsexy 0 #62 December 13, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteSilly negroes. Walt Tricks are for kids! mh . ... that's digusting, disgusting and sad. there are so many issues that surround this "topic" (racial, political, judicial, etc..) that the only way for you to cope with your inability to interpret what actually is going on is slander. However, it's my fault for being nieve enough to expect somewhat of a higher caliber of class and character within in the skydiving community more than the rest of the world. and if your going to say it's a joke.... THATS NOT A JOKE!!! (((THAT!!!))) is a severe! behavioral disorder... that shits not funny! *bitch-smack* Look at it any way you want. Anything I could possibly say pales in comparison to the dumbass media circus that is surrounding this scumbag. It's difficult to say anything intelligent about it because it seems like one big sick joke. The guy deserves NO sympathy. Anyone who sympathizes with him is very misguided (at best) IMO. Anyone who commits or threatens to commit vandalism or violent crime in response to his execution is hardly any better than he is. I didn't mean my post to be funny. I wasn't laughing when I posted it. I was disgusted that *anyone* could get behind such a scumball, claiming he had turned into some sort of hero. He's not anywhere close to being a hero, IMO. When I posted that it was one of those moments where you throw up your hands and wonder just how much lower people can sink. That was not even a little bit clear in my post and I apologize if I offended you. I'm still disgusted, though. If you are wondering why the reference to "Negroes", it was pretty much a reference to the Rodney King riots. I understand the situations are nowhere near the same, but the whole idea of rioting in response to a perceived injustice just strikes me as something pissed off people do because they think they will be able to get away with it. Screw that. And truth be told, I don't think any white guy who committed the same crimes would become such a media darling. Walt replying goes against my better judgement... but with regards to your last statements I have a feel of where your comming from. (We wouldn't see a mob of angry whites hounding the streets for revenge or revocation)...or are they? IMHO alot have been... demonstrated by the 2nd and 3rd post of this topic.. Reguardless of how you break it down, how you placed your words in commune says alot. And as far as this tookie williams character... fuck him, he's no more than a reformed murderer like there have been many times before. Some live, some die... From my methods of thinking which are unorthodox as hell and I let a lot of truth out about my person when I say this... that, things could not be going better for the associated networks working overtime to make sure this sorry excuse for news gets maximum coverage. Let's say tookie williams get executed and riots ensue... Property damage amongst a huge amount of variables generate finance aid that literally funnels into the exhausted state that the fucking TERMINATOR governs.. felony arrests are made in bulk overfilling the already overfilled prisons thus capping out the supply and demand peak on prisons and prisoners... prisons cost money... guess who pays for that? SOooooooo.... taxes get higher, by the time your money makes it's way through the federal and state programs to the actual contracts that build the damaged property, prisons, etc.. 3-11 cents out of your dollar would have made its way the cause that could have prevented these practices in the first place. I mean honestly 42 YEARS!!!!... shiiiieeeeetttttt..... So If I was one to profit of these potential contracts.. I would probably wants this to happen. But my point is... ahhhh fuck it... I love skydiving, I can't do this speaker's corner right now... I'm going out... but please, respect your FELLOW americans. It would benefit you in ways you never know.... ciao, I'm out Tony "'Someday is not a day in my week'" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #63 December 13, 2005 QuoteThese people who are calling for commutation to life in prison are not arguing it based on the idea that the death penalty is wrong. I could respect that if they did. They are arguing that he is somehow a changed man who will make the world a better place. Bingo.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #64 December 13, 2005 QuoteLet's say tookie williams get executed and riots ensue... Property damage amongst a huge amount of variables generate finance aid that literally funnels into the exhausted state that the fucking TERMINATOR governs.. felony arrests are made in bulk overfilling the already overfilled prisons thus capping out the supply and demand peak on prisons and prisoners... prisons cost money... guess who pays for that? SOooooooo.... taxes get higher, by the time your money makes it's way through the federal and state programs to the actual contracts that build the damaged property, prisons, etc.. 3-11 cents out of your dollar would have made its way the cause that could have prevented these practices in the first place. I mean honestly 42 YEARS!!!!... shiiiieeeeetttttt..... With logic like that, maybe you should be on the next flight hijacked by a terrorist organization. I'm sure they'd be happy to have you in the front seat playing a good, quiet, and obidient sheep to their demands.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,648 #65 December 13, 2005 Quote These people who are calling for commutation to life in prison are not arguing it based on the idea that the death penalty is wrong. I could respect that if they did. They are arguing that he is somehow a changed man who will make the world a better place. I think the death penalty is wrong. Always.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
micro 0 #66 December 13, 2005 QuoteI think the death penalty is wrong. Always. Why? I happen to agree w/ you, mostly, regarding this issue, but why do you believe thus? I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Erroll 49 #67 December 13, 2005 Quote (We wouldn't see a mob of angry whites hounding the streets for revenge or revocation) Really? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,435 #68 December 13, 2005 Your one warning. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
artistcalledian 0 #69 December 13, 2005 Has Hollywood gone up in smoke yet? are the apes of L.A running around torching everything?________________________________________ drive it like you stole it and f*ck the police Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RhondaLea 3 #70 December 13, 2005 QuoteWith logic like that... I think his point was that it's less expensive in the long run to alleviate the underlying social problem than to clean up in the aftermath when it blows. We apply an awful lot of bandaids to hemorrhages. It's a waste of bandaids. rlIf you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #71 December 13, 2005 Well, Tookie has been executed. And so far, there are no reports of violence. It's 6:20 am, so who knows what will happen. But I'm thinking maybe it's not going to be the full scale rioting we saw in '92 and '65. Maybe there won't be any rioting at all... Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
micro 0 #72 December 13, 2005 i thought that if rioting were to occur, it would happen in the middle of the night right after he died. if it hasn't happened yet, i don't think it will... I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest #73 December 13, 2005 QuoteWell, Tookie has been executed. And so far, there are no reports of violence. It's 6:20 am, so who knows what will happen. But I'm thinking maybe it's not going to be the full scale rioting we saw in '92 and '65. Maybe there won't be any rioting at all... Ciels- Michele It's only because it's the wrong time of year, and although there is an imbecilic perception of "injustice" among those who supported that now-dead beast, many recognize him for what he was - a rabid, brutal thug whose passing leaves the world no poorer a place; indeed, the air is a little cleaner now that he's not breathing it. This is a far cry from the Rodney King fiasco. mh ."The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eflynn 0 #74 December 13, 2005 Nobody was ever going to riot regardless of what may have been written online or said on CNN. Think about it... He founded the crips over 30 years ago and has since renounced gang life and everything associated with it. In doing so he put himself at odds with everyone who continues to bang. Given this you have a few groups of people. 1. Young crips who have no idea who he is or really don't care AND look at him as being a traitor. They're definitely not going to riot. Why would they? 2. Bloods who would love to see him die based on the fact he created their enemy faction. 3. Non gang members who feel he should have been granted clemency for whatever reason. These folks aren't generally the types that riot when things don't go their way. Basically, there's a huge disconnect between anyone who might have rioted and the given conditions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #75 December 13, 2005 What did I say?---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
