Hooknswoop 19 #1 November 28, 2005 I know the US is far from perfect, but it is awesome that the citizens can openly criticize the government without fear of reprisal. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,651 #2 November 28, 2005 QuoteI know the US is far from perfect, but it is awesome that the citizens can openly criticize the government without fear of reprisal. Derek Kent State, May 4, 1970.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,260 #3 November 28, 2005 QuoteI know the US is far from perfect, but it is awesome that the citizens can openly criticize the government without fear of reprisal. Except from the large band of people that seem to take it on themselves to protect the state. Anyone for a flag burning?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #4 November 28, 2005 QuoteQuoteI know the US is far from perfect, but it is awesome that the citizens can openly criticize the government without fear of reprisal. Derek Kent State, May 4, 1970. You really do hate the US don't you?"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #5 November 28, 2005 QuoteI know the US is far from perfect, but it is awesome that the citizens can openly criticize the government without fear of reprisal. You say that now. I'd bet you money their is a "when the shit hits the fan, round up the nay sayers" list... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,651 #6 November 28, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuoteI know the US is far from perfect, but it is awesome that the citizens can openly criticize the government without fear of reprisal. Derek Kent State, May 4, 1970. You really do hate the US don't you? Are you claiming it didn't happen? Are you claiming that troops did not shoot and kill children who were criticizing US government policies. You seem to prefer Pollyanna's view of the country.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,651 #7 November 28, 2005 QuoteI know the US is far from perfect, but it is awesome that the citizens can openly criticize the government without fear of reprisal. Derek Another example.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,651 #8 November 28, 2005 The White House Plumbers: The group was formed in an almost direct response to the release of The Pentagon Papers in the New York Times beginning June 13, 1971. The papers contained documents detailing America's involvement in Vietnam. Initially White House Chief of Staff H.R. Haldeman downplayed the event to Nixon, stating the information mainly made the Kennedy and Johnson Administrations look bad. However, National Security Advisor Henry Kissinger and special counsel Charles Colson advocated a severe response to the act in the form of publicly discrediting the leaker of the papers, former State Department and Defense Department employee Daniel Ellsberg.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,651 #9 November 28, 2005 www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/opinion/13160955.htm The affair that began with the exposure of CIA agent Valerie Plame Wilson by columnist Robert Novak nearly 2 ½ years ago is shaping up as a landmark in contemporary journalism. Running through it are unusually rich veins, from the global to the interpersonal: world politics at its most momentous, with war and peace in the balance; use of the media as instruments of state power to quell political opposition; the questionable independence of the press and its right to stand up to the courts; the status of a journalist's promise to an informant and whether it is a covenant that the reporter is duty-bound to honor; and where, in this food fight among politicians, lawyers and journalists, is the public interest?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #10 November 28, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteI know the US is far from perfect, but it is awesome that the citizens can openly criticize the government without fear of reprisal. Derek Kent State, May 4, 1970. You really do hate the US don't you? Are you claiming it didn't happen? Are you claiming that troops did not shoot and kill children who were criticizing US government policies. You seem to prefer Pollyanna's view of the country. Once again you use your favorite tactic of avoiding the point or topic and try to put words into someone's mouth............... Am I claiming that it did not happen?? WTF Where did you get that myopic come back......"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,651 #11 November 28, 2005 Mon August, 29 2005 @ 04:33 GMT Bunantine Greenhouse, a 60 year old black woman and the Pentagon's highest ranking civilian employee, has been demoted from her job as the chief overseer of contracts for the Army Corps of Engineers after questioning large no-bid contracts awarded to Halliburton for work in Iraq. Greenhouse, with twenty years of military procurement experience and high performance ratings prior to the war, was given a poor performance review and offered a much lower civil works position, or early retirement. She is fighting the decision as whistleblower retaliation.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,651 #12 November 28, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteI know the US is far from perfect, but it is awesome that the citizens can openly criticize the government without fear of reprisal. Derek Kent State, May 4, 1970. You really do hate the US don't you? Are you claiming it didn't happen? Are you claiming that troops did not shoot and kill children who were criticizing US government policies. You seem to prefer Pollyanna's view of the country. Once again you use your favorite tactic of avoiding the point or topic and try to put words into someone's mouth............... Am I claiming that it did not happen?? WTF Where did you get that myopic come back...... Kindly explain how providing actual examples of reprisals against critics of the government, up to and including shooting them, is not relevant to this thread.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lefty 0 #13 November 28, 2005 Not that the examples you've cited aren't valid (although the Kent State one was asinine), but the fact you are here on these boards regularly criticizing the U.S. without being spirited away by secret police must count for something, wouldn't you say?Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful. -Calvin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #14 November 28, 2005 Baghdad Blogger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,651 #15 November 28, 2005 QuoteNot that the examples you've cited aren't valid (although the Kent State one was asinine), but the fact you are here on these boards regularly criticizing the U.S. without being spirited away by secret police must count for something, wouldn't you say? Being shot dead seems a fairly severe punishment for demonstrating against the government. How is it different from Tiananmen Square except in scale? And how do you know who is or is not being held in the CIA's secret prisons? "You are either with us or against us", G. W. Bush, 2001 In all fairness, I believe the McCarthy era and the Nixon and Bush(43) administrations to be aberrations, and the USA will get over Bush just like it got over McCarthy and Nixon.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lefty 0 #16 November 28, 2005 Well, I've always liked to believe, perhaps naiively, that Kent State was an accident. The soldiers who shot the students were no older than the students themselves. The students weren't shot because they were protesting against the government, it was just a situation that got out of hand. Check the history books. If you can't see the difference between that and Tiananmen Square, no amount of me trying to explain it will convince you. Back to my original point: I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume you are not "with us" in terms of the Bush quote which would put you in the "against us" category. However, you are still here, you haven't been shot or kidnapped, I figure you'll be posting more anti-US stuff in the future, and probably the only people who take the time to actively respond to you are the people on this forum. So, either you have to admit this country allows its citizens a certain degree of freedom, or you need to tell us that there are black helicopters and G-men knocking on your door right now. Which is it?Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful. -Calvin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumper03 0 #17 November 28, 2005 Quote I figure you'll be posting more anti-US stuff in the future, I've never seen Kallend post anti-US stuff. anti-Bush, yes - anti US NO. That is something over the past few years that has burned my toast - If you express a disliking and/or distrust of Bush - you're anti-US. What a load.Scars remind us that the past is real Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lefty 0 #18 November 28, 2005 Kent State had nothing to do with Bush. Moving right along...Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful. -Calvin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,651 #19 November 28, 2005 QuoteWell, I've always liked to believe, perhaps naiively, that Kent State was an accident. The soldiers who shot the students were no older than the students themselves. The students weren't shot because they were protesting against the government, it was just a situation that got out of hand. Check the history books. If you can't see the difference between that and Tiananmen Square, no amount of me trying to explain it will convince you. Back to my original point: I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume you are not "with us" in terms of the Bush quote which would put you in the "against us" category. However, you are still here, you haven't been shot or kidnapped, I figure you'll be posting more anti-US stuff in the future, and probably the only people who take the time to actively respond to you are the people on this forum. So, either you have to admit this country allows its citizens a certain degree of freedom, or you need to tell us that there are black helicopters and G-men knocking on your door right now. Which is it? Well, Joe McCarthy went after small fry with G-men but I think it was wasted effort and pissed off the public too much. So I don't think they bother with small fry like skydivers nowadays when they can go after high profile people like John Kerry (did you forget that two Bush campaign officials, Cordier and Ginsberg, had to resign after first denying, but finally admitting to helping the smear campaign to discredit Kerry last year). This too shall pass. The US got rid of McCarthy and Nixon.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lefty 0 #20 November 28, 2005 Quotethey can go after high profile people like John Kerry (did you forget that two Bush campaign officials, Cordier and Ginsberg, had to resign after first denying, but finally admitting to helping the smear campaign to discredit Kerry last year). Yeah, I think that's called "politics". It speaks volumes for the rights we have that small fry like skydivers aren't restricted in what they can say because it would piss off the public. Even if the government wanted to restrict our freedom of speech (which is very possible), it couldn't without fear of reprisal from the citizens. Edited for phrasing.Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful. -Calvin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,651 #21 November 28, 2005 QuoteQuote I figure you'll be posting more anti-US stuff in the future, I've never seen Kallend post anti-US stuff. anti-Bush, yes - anti US NO. That is something over the past few years that has burned my toast - If you express a disliking and/or distrust of Bush - you're anti-US. What a load. My comments have nothing to do with pro or anti anything. I have just provided abundant evidence that the statement in the first post of the thread was false. Many many people have been subject to reprisals for criticising the government. That is all.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #22 November 28, 2005 QuoteQuoteWell, I've always liked to believe, perhaps naiively, that Kent State was an accident. The soldiers who shot the students were no older than the students themselves. The students weren't shot because they were protesting against the government, it was just a situation that got out of hand. Check the history books. If you can't see the difference between that and Tiananmen Square, no amount of me trying to explain it will convince you. Back to my original point: I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume you are not "with us" in terms of the Bush quote which would put you in the "against us" category. However, you are still here, you haven't been shot or kidnapped, I figure you'll be posting more anti-US stuff in the future, and probably the only people who take the time to actively respond to you are the people on this forum. So, either you have to admit this country allows its citizens a certain degree of freedom, or you need to tell us that there are black helicopters and G-men knocking on your door right now. Which is it? Well, Joe McCarthy went after small fry with G-men but I think it was wasted effort and pissed off the public too much. So I don't think they bother with small fry like skydivers nowadays when they can go after high profile people like John Kerry (did you forget that two Bush campaign officials, Cordier and Ginsberg, had to resign after first denying, but finally admitting to helping the smear campaign to discredit Kerry last year). This too shall pass. The US got rid of McCarthy and Nixon. Or Rather having to resign after his smear campaign against Bush? I don't seem to recall Kerry making any waves about it in any speaches. Unfortunately, it DOES happen...on ALL sides.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #23 November 28, 2005 "Kent State, May 4, 1970." Och Prof, there's a lot of that sort of thing about... Bogside, Jan 30, 1972. The important thing is to learn from such mistakes and move on.-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #24 November 28, 2005 QuoteI have just provided abundant evidence that the statement in the first post of the thread was false. And at the same time, proved it to be true. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lefty 0 #25 November 28, 2005 QuoteAnd at the same time, proved it to be true. I believe that's checkmate...next topic please, hehe.Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful. -Calvin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
