President Bush Fires Back Against Critics

[TheAnvil 0]

You call that a timetable? Interesting. If, indeed, we do set a timetable, then the U.S. is making a mistake. Withdrawal should be based upon conditions in the country - not arbitrary time periods.

What's the DNC's plan for withdrawal from Germany, Japan, and Korea, since we're on the subject?

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[billvon 2,435]

> If, indeed, we do set a timetable, then the U.S. is making a mistake.

We will indeed set a timetable, and if it's successful, it will have been Bush's plan all along. If not, it will be the democrat's fault. Nothing new there.

[TheAnvil 0]

I don't think so. Setting an arbitrary timetable and expecting political events on the ground to conform to said timetable is absurd by any standard.

Still waiting on a timetable from the left for our withdrawal from the Korean peninsula, Japan, and Germany. Won't be holding my breath, but I am still waiting with an amused smile on my face everytime a timetable for an Iraqi withdrawal is mentioned.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[kallend 1,649]

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I don't think so. Setting an arbitrary timetable and expecting political events on the ground to conform to said timetable is absurd by any standard.

Still waiting on a timetable from the left for our withdrawal from the Korean peninsula, Japan, and Germany. Won't be holding my breath, but I am still waiting with an amused smile on my face everytime a timetable for an Iraqi withdrawal is mentioned.

What would be the problem withdrawing all US troops from Germany and Japan right now?

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 2,435]

>What's the DNC's plan for withdrawal from Germany, Japan, and Korea,
>since we're on the subject?

No plan exists, nor do we need one. Do you feel that too many US soldiers are getting killed in Germany?

[nacmacfeegle 0]

I don't really believe there will be a complete withdrawal from Iraq or Afghanistan by the coalition.

I believe that a large military presence in the middle East is part of a long term scheme to bring stability/control to the area, for whatever reason, or altruistic purpose.

Doesn't the PNAC require a continued presence in Europe, Asia, and the middle East?

Anyone who thinks there will be a large scale withdrawal from the Middle East is kidding themselves.

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He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[mnealtx 0]

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> If, indeed, we do set a timetable, then the U.S. is making a mistake.

We will indeed set a timetable, and if it's successful, it will have been Bush's plan all along. If not, it will be the democrat's fault. Nothing new there.

And the Left will say it's Bush's fault if it's NOT successful, and try to claim all the credit if it works....your point is?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[SkyDekker 1,147]

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What would be the problem withdrawing all US troops from Germany and Japan right now?

The funny thing is, the US would really only hurt themselves if they withdraw, specially from Germany. They need those bases to support ongoing operations....

[TheAnvil 0]

Not very many at all, as you well know. Now please, Bill, riddle me this. If you're in favor of withdrawing troops from Iraq, which we've only recently invaded and begun to stabilize, how can you not be in favor of withdrawing our troops from Germany, South Korea, and Japan - all three of which have been peaceful (relatively in S.K.'s case, but I'm sure you get my meaning here) and stable for quite some time?

Perhaps you WANT the U.S. invasion to be a dismal failure. After all - we withdrew from Vietnam and our venture there in support of Kennan-esque foreign policy has been deemed an utter failure in almost every regard. We have not withdrawn in S.K., Deutschland, and Japan and our efforts in all three places are considered successful by nearly all. Is the left's hatred of GWB so deep that they WANT us to fail as a nation?

If not, your timetables for withdrawal from the aforementioned countries should be forthcoming. Or perhaps a reason for not withdrawing there and why Iraq is so unique in nature that a withdrawal is mandated.

Again - I won't hold my breath.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[Zenister 0]

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>What's the DNC's plan for withdrawal from Germany, Japan, and Korea,
>since we're on the subject?

No plan exists, nor do we need one. Do you feel that too many US soldiers are getting killed in Germany?

actually one does exist.. several divisions currently in Germany will not remain there post realignment...

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[billvon 2,435]

> Or perhaps a reason for not withdrawing there and why Iraq is so
> unique in nature that a withdrawal is mandated.

Our presence in Iraq is causing some of the very problems (increased terrorist attacks, growth of Al Qaeda, deaths of many innocent civilians) that we went there to stop. Thus, to accomplish our goals, we must leave. None of those things are happening in Germany, Japan etc thus we do not have the same need to leave.

[rehmwa 2]

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>Our presence in Iraq is causing

How are you to decide the difference between cause, effect, or correlation here?

Or even better, 'original' cause, a lot the posters like to backtrack through history to allow anyone younger than 300 years old to to be blameless. Only Kallend is that old.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[billvon 2,435]

>How are you to decide the difference between cause, effect, or
>correlation here?

When US troops open fire on a minivan and wipe out an entire family, they are causing the very deaths we went there to create. Now, you could put a million caveats on that - they wouldn't have fired if the van had stopped instantly, they had every right to protect themselves, that family might have been blown away later by some other terrorists - but the fact remains that that family would not have been killed by US troops if there were no US troops there.

>Or even better, 'original' cause . . .

I'm not trying to establish original cause. Just the cause of what's happening right now. Withdrawing is not a perfect solution; there are no perfect solutions. But it will get us much closer to a solution than staying there forever.

[rehmwa 2]

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>Now, you could put a million caveats on that -

You confuse the tactical with the strategic - again. And make conclusive statements on subjective issues. "the fact remains" that you have a good theory and want to validate it (and likely have good reason to go that way), but it's a long way from calling it fact.

Withdrawing may be a 'better' solution - that would explain the subjective assessment by congress voting 403 vs 3 against. But you might be right and they might be wrong.

I'd be willing to give it a shot, I have friend and relatives I'd like home, but I think there are better odds by defining the milestones/achievement needed and then letting the Iraqi people note when THEY think they can meet those objectives.

My position is that this is the Iraqi's country and they can assess their readiness or anticipate their readiness, best. I'm sure yours is the same, but you still come across as the US is their babysitter instead of their ally, and that we should TELL them when they are ready. Just because they look different than us doesn't mean they aren't as smart as us (I just threw that in there for fun, it seems to be considered a valid tactic by some on these boards to push the discrimination button.)

It's not a real disagreement, just a matter of flavor I think. I am willing to discuss pros and cons, but you act like it's all PRO and zero con. You can't know that until after the fact.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[TheAnvil 0]

Surrender to the terrorists, eh? You ARE on the 'we should fail' track then...

tsk tsk tsk.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[ReBirth 0]

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Surrender to the terrorists, eh?

Nice propaganda.

tsk tsk tsk

[billvon 2,435]

>Surrender to the terrorists, eh?

Right! I'm surrendering to the terrorists. And I want all our troops to die, and the US to fail, and Bush to get AIDS.

Does it always have to devolve to that? Surely you can think of something more intelligent, given that tequila time has not yet arrived.

[EricTheRed 0]

But Bill,

it's always tequila time somewhere...

illegible usually

[rehmwa 2]

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it's always tequila time somewhere...

I think that is the best position taken in the history of Speaker's Corner. Certainly in this thread.

Can use that?

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[EricTheRed 0]

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it's always tequila time somewhere...

I think that is the best position taken in the history of Speaker's Corner. Certainly in this thread.

Can use that?

With great pleasure, I grant you unlimited use of the phrase.

ITTSW

illegible usually

[TheAnvil 0]

I can always come up with something more intelligent, but not nearly as funny. I got off early today - tequila time will come soon after my evening run in all likelihood.

I heard GWB speaking on his Iraq policy in a waiting room today. The phrase 'condition based withdrawal' was used, which brought a smile to my face. Conditions, and not time will dictate any withdrawal of troops. I like that.

I'm off to stretch my hooves so tequila time can come sooner rather than later.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[SkyDekker 1,147]

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I can always come up with something more intelligent, but not nearly as funny. I got off early today - tequila time will come soon after my evening run in all likelihood.

I heard GWB speaking on his Iraq policy in a waiting room today. The phrase 'condition based withdrawal' was used, which brought a smile to my face. Conditions, and not time will dictate any withdrawal of troops. I like that.

What if teh condition is that it has to be within a certain time frame? Condition based means fuck all...

[billvon 2,435]

>The phrase 'condition based withdrawal' was used . . .

See? That's progress. Both sides are getting closer together. A little while back, anyone who talked about withdrawal was a terrorist-loving traitor. And (assuming GWB does not consider himself a terrorist-loving traitor) now it's being discussed. Hopefully they will compromise on a schedule with enough structure in it that we actually have goals to meet (instead of "some day, somehow, when X happens, maybe in 2050") but with enough flexibility to meet the demands of the real world.

[rushmc 18]

Our presence in Iraq is causing some of the very problems (increased terrorist attacks, growth of Al Qaeda, deaths of many innocent civilians) that we went there to stop. .

[billvon 2,435]

>You either have data or you are a soothsayer I guess

We kill innocent civilians in Iraq - accidentally, of course. But if we weren't there we wouldn't be accidentally shooting civilians. Simple fact, not prediction.