Tasers or deadly force?

[eaglenrider 0]

Some say it is the same thing and certainly
* Tasers* have killed!

Here is something which is interesting to me;
Recently in the UK the police went to take down some who were suspected of being involved in the terrorist bombings of the tube.
They deployed a Taser weapon during the arrest.

Just a few days earlier they shot an innocent man at least 5 times after he was already subdued.

Why didn't they use a Taser?
Anyone?

Might I suggest that the "Brazilian" had information which MI5 and the Israelis didn't want made public?

Could the Brazilian have known who was actually responsible for the 7/7 bombings?

Blues,
Cliff

[AggieDave 6]

Tasers and such aren't really a non-deadly force, they're just generally considered less-lethal. Literally every less than lethal weapon used currently can still kill.

Since I wasn't there with the LEOs who made the decision to use the weapons they decided was needed for that situation, who am I to judge what they used and why?

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[eaglenrider 0]

Literally every less than lethal weapon used currently can still kill.
_________________________________________________

Not exactly true ,Aggie Dave.
But you do ehibit the mindset of so many in law enforcement and the military.

As an exercise,
can you name one ,just one,"less than lethal weapon" that doesn't kill?

Blues,
Cliff

[AggieDave 6]

They all have the capacity to not kill, although they all have the capacity to kill.

Quote

But you do ehibit the mindset of so many in law enforcement and the military.

Their lives depend on factors such as these, lord help us if perhaps their opinion has grown from experience. That's sort of like saying "gee, your opinion on downsizing sounds like those of S&TA's and instructors, but they're wrong..."

You were going to say netting or the such? Or maybe pepper spray? They both have the ability to take a life. Or how about a bean bag? Words won't kill you, but "stop!" doesn't always make people stop now does it.

Well, if you'll excuse me, I'm gonna go hug some trees and feel good about everything. HA!

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[eaglenrider 0]

Quote

They all have the capacity to not kill, although they all have the capacity to kill.

You were going to say netting or the such? Or maybe pepper spray? They both have the ability to take a life. Or how about a bean bag? Words won't kill you, but "stop!" doesn't always make people stop now does it.

Well, if you'll excuse me, I'm gonna go hug some trees and feel good about everything. HA!

__________________________________________________

Very sad.., that an educated man can't think of just one weapon, just one "less than lethal weapon" which doesn't kill.

Would you like to try again ,Aggie Dave?

Blues,
Cliff

[AggieDave 6]

Quote

Very sad.., that an educated man can't think of just one weapon, just one "less than lethal weapon" which doesn't kill.

Would you like to try again ,Aggie Dave?

Nope, gave it a half-assed try and that's all you'll get. Thinly, veiled personal attacks from you aside, perhaps if you would have choosen to give an example and then shown some sort of documented proof I may have cared about your opinion.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[eaglenrider 0]

Thinly, veiled personal attacks from you aside,
__________________________________________________

Uhmmm,uhumm.., .
Hey Dave.., Ya think you may be just a *tad bit* paranoid"?
Maybe ,ya think.., a bit thin skinned?

Blues,
Cliff

[fenceline 0]

Maybe the thought of using an electricity based weapon on someone possibly wearing explosive that use electricity to detonate was a contributing factor the first time..... just a thought. Maybe they felt the second guy wasn't wearing any. No scenario ever plays out the same.

[eaglenrider 0]

Quote

Maybe the thought of using an electricity based weapon on someone possibly wearing explosive that use electricity to detonate was a contributing factor the first time..... just a thought. Maybe they felt the second guy wasn't wearing any. No scenario ever plays out the same.

__________________________________________________

Could be that way, fenceline.

I'm leaning more toward the "they had to make sure he wasn't able to talk" scenario.

I mean why did they tell us these lies about"padded bulky jacket" "jumping the turnstile " etc.?
Something stinks in Denmark .
In London too!

Blues,
Cliff

[fenceline 0]

"""I mean why did they tell us these lies about"padded bulky jacket" "jumping the turnstile " etc.?"""

You were there, I take it...

[eaglenrider 0]

Quote

"""I mean why did they tell us these lies about"padded bulky jacket" "jumping the turnstile " etc.?"""

You were there, I take it...

__________________________________________________

No, I wasn't there.
I was here when the media reported that the explosives were of such high quality that they were definetly military origin.
I was here when they said they were cooked up in a basement

I've been here whenever the story has changed.

Where have you been?
Under the covers with your head tucked between your legs?
Do you not expect your government to be truthful and accountable?

What's the deal.my Freind?

The government has provided two diametrically opposed versions of the bombing materials.
Does that not make you wonder about the credibility of the gov't version of the story?

Blues.
Cliff



a

[fenceline 0]

I don't usually subscribe to the conspiracy side of arguements. Just like to review facts. If you know of any independant media releases, either by two seperate sources, or better yet from the same source, showing a contradiction, I would most eagerly read them.

[eaglenrider 0]

Quote

I don't usually subscribe to the conspiracy side of arguements. Just like to review facts. If you know of any independant media releases, either by two seperate sources, or better yet from the same source, showing a contradiction, I would most eagerly read them.

_________________________________________________)

WTF ,Fenceline???
Were you breathing just after the 7/7 bombings?

Did you not read the reports that the explosives were definately military?
Did you read a few days later that they were mixed up by an Egyptian and then that the Egyptian wasn't involved at all?

Look ,Guy,
I'm not here to inform the lazy people .

I'm here to inform the "misinformed" and those bowled over by government propaganda.
Get a library card , Dude.
Don't register it!

Blues,
Cliff

[fenceline 0]

I'm here to inform the "misinformed"


Oh thats good

[CornishChris 5]

Clearly the news you get in the US about our country is much better than that which we receive here in the UK. Maybe the British police should just watch the threads on this subject you seem to start - then they would have these crimes nailed for sure.

CJP

Gods don't kill people. People with Gods kill people

[eaglenrider 0]

Quote

Clearly the news you get in the US about our country is much better than that which we receive here in the UK. Maybe the British police should just watch the threads on this subject you seem to start - then they would have these crimes nailed for sure.

__________________________________________________

Do you have any news which would discredit anything I have written? Because your post here just doesn't say much.
Blues,
Cliff

[Newbie 0]

Excuse my french, but what the fuck are you on about? You accuse AggieDave of being a tad paranoid - have you actually reread your original post?

They shot an innocent BRAZILIAN (and as well all know, there are many Brazilians who are commited to the Al Quaeda regime) beause they thought he had a bomb strapped to his body. That's why he was shot 7 times in the head, because police are shooting to kill with head shots (google Operation Kratos).

Sir Ian Blair, Commisioner of the Met Police, and largely, the most influential and powerful policeman in the UK, said this about the taser incident....

"He told a BBC television programme on the security crisis: “It is incredibly risky to use a Taser on a suicide bomber because it may have set it off. I can’t imagine why it was used. They are used regularly in London but it sends an electric current into the body. If there is a bomb on the body it sets it off.” "

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,22989-1713141,00.html

My thoughts on why a taser was used was as a direct result of the mistake the police made by shooting the Brazilian guy, who was innocent, and they didn't want to take a chance of the same thing happening in Birmingham - a risk balanced up by the fact the taser may have activated a bomb if he had one strapped to him (something the police there may or may not have weighed up, we probably won't ever know).

Although with your transparent hatred of Israel and twisted viewpoint of world affairs through second rate conspiracy theories means you probably won't accept any of the above will you?

"Skydiving is a door"
Happythoughts

[justinb138 0]

Can you please spare us all the trouble of listening to you and hurry up and get banned or something?

[lawrocket 3]

Quote

Just a few days earlier they shot an innocent man at least 5 times after he was already subdued.

Why didn't they use a Taser?

Hmmm. Pumping electricity through someone believed to be wearing a bomb.

Yeah, that makes sense..

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[waltappel 1]

Quote

Can you please spare us all the trouble of listening to you and hurry up and get banned or something?

C'mon!!! He is one of my favorite posters, and I don't mean that in any kind of sarcastic way. Granted, I would very much like to see him cite actual sources for what he says, but his often outrageous posts usually get some lively discussions going.

Walt

[gmanpilot 0]

Quote

"""I mean why did they tell us these lies about"padded bulky jacket" "jumping the turnstile " etc?"""

It's all a misinformation campaign to throw you off their trail. You're getting too close dude, maybe you should disappear for a while...for your own safety.

_________________________________________
-There's always free cheese in a mouse trap.

[Channman 2]

Bean Bag, delivered by shot gun. Hurt like hell, but then 5 bullets to the brain is far more effective when stopping someone running from you after repeated attempts being told to stop.

[Botellines 0]

Quote

I don't usually subscribe to the conspiracy side of arguements.

I don´t usually think automatically about conspiration neither, and i don´t know all the details about this particular incident. However, when AQ put the bombs in the trains here in Madrid, the first thing the government did was to lie to the public to mislead us and make us think it was ETA, rather than AQ. Which was much more convenient towards the upcoming election. They said it was the same explosive than ETA always use and some other lies like that. The lie was found out before the election and they lost.
So i wouldn´t trust the government too much. The only thing is that i don´t see here how lieing would benefit the government anyhow.

[Botellines 0]

Quote

Bean Bag, delivered by shot gun. Hurt like hell, but then 5 bullets to the brain is far more effective when stopping someone running from you after repeated attempts being told to stop.

That will only work the first time. I don´t think it would be too complicated to make a bomb that once armed (just before they leave the house), will go off when they stop pressing a button or something similar.

[Gawain 0]

Quote

Very sad.., that an educated man can't think of just one weapon, just one "less than lethal weapon" which doesn't kill.

My M249 SAW has the potential to be less than lethal if I really tried to shoot it that way, but that's not its purpose -- it was designed as a lethal weapon, in fact, its sole purpose is to be a casualty producting weapon.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!