Oregon Schools Ban Hugging

[mailin 0]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,156620,00.html

Oregon Schools Ban Hugging
Monday, May 16, 2005

BEND, Ore. — Public displays of affection are against the rules at Sky View Middle School (search) in Bend, and 14-year-old Cazz Altomare found that out the hard way.

She got detention earlier this year after hugging her boyfriend in the hallway as he headed to lunch and she went to gym class.

Her mother, Leslee Swanson, was infuriated by the punishment — in fact, when she went to pick her daughter up from detention, she gave her a good, hard hug.

"I'm trying to understand what's wrong with a hug," said Swanson, 42.

But administrators said such policies are standard-issue at middle schools across the country.

"Really, all we're trying to do is create an environment that's focused on learning, and learning proper manners is part of that," said Dave Haack, the principal of Cascade Middle School (search), also in Bend. "This is not us being the romance police."

Students only end up with detention after repeated warnings, he said.

Outside Pilot Butte Middle School (search) on a recent lunch break, two seventh-grade girls said they disagreed with the school's policies.

"I think we should be able to hold hands or hug at least," Annie Wilson, 12, told The Bulletin in Bend. "Because it's not doing anything bad."

Others are more in favor of the rule, like Christina Barackman, 13, also a Pilot Butte seventh-grader.

"I think they're nice to keep boundaries for kids," she said.

Schools need to define and actively teach what they do want to see in student behavior, said Rob Horner, a University of Oregon (search) professor who works with schools across the nation on "building social culture that supports effective learning."

"To say 'no hugging' really blows it," Horner said. "That's exactly the sort of trap that, as soon as you say that, what is the first thing everyone is going to want to do?"

At home after school on a recent afternoon, Cazz, the Sky View student, described the no-hug rule as "dumb."

"Hugging is like a sign of affection," she said.

Her mother has told her that if she likes Sky View and wants to stay at the school, she'll have to abide by the rules.

But Swanson, the mother, said she wonders if a hugging ban would fly in a more metropolitan place.

For her, this is a politically charged issue.

"The more people blindly accept these fundamental rights being taken away from them, the easier it becomes for them to be taken away," Swanson said.

Arianna Frances

[Rebecca 0]

Whew! Good thing they did that, otherwise kids might be able to comfort one another, greet each other joyfully, say thanks with physical contact and basically experience all the many benfits of positive physical touch.

Asshats. This is exacty the sort of thing they'd have done at my high school.

you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' -- well do you, punk?

[AlexCrowley 0]

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"The more people blindly accept these fundamental rights being taken away from them, the easier it becomes for them to be taken away," Swanson said.

I'm sorry, but thats gotta be the funniest thing I've read so far today.

Well, I dont read enough humor I guess.

This is an incredibly complex problem that sits out in the open pretending to be incredibly simple. Of course kids should be able to hug!

From talking to friends who've worked in the education system in NH and MA over the last 20 years, it would seem that while parents have passed more and more of the onus on teachers to raise their children for them, they have managed to reduce a teachers ability to both teach effectively and, far more importantly, made it almost impossible for a teacher to instill discipline without them getting fired or sued for attempting to do so.

At which point should a school cut off public shows of physical affection? At 12 + where both children and their parents are thinking about sexual issues (from the 'i wonder if I will' to the 'i bloody hope they dont' perspectives) it doesnt surprise me that a zero tolerance policy would be put in place. When does hugging become more than that? Is it a hug if it lasts more than 5 minutes? How does one police hugging? do staff time each hug that they happen to notice while walking by? It's just such a sticky place to be for the teachers.

It's a little like the recent report suggesting doctors recommending more and more tests to heart patients who dont need them, in some cases tests which can cause further damage. Why? because these doctors are concerned that in the case of something going wrong they will be sued.

The US has become a litigious society, where anyone seems to be able to shout 'physical/mental/emotional damage! $$$$' at any point. While these claims rarely have any merit, it is the firestorm of publicity which will damage the schools reputation and future.

So, stupid rule? perhaps. Do I understand it? absolutely. Do I still think "blindly accept these fundamental rights being taken away from them" is the funniest damn thing I've read so far today? you betcha.

TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

[mailin 0]

Seeing as I'm a product of the MA school systems and studied to be a teacher, the responsability to discipline is not on the teachers any longer. If there is a problem then the parents are called - has been since the early 80s when I entered the school systems (at a catholic school no doubt). The story doesn't go deep enough into what the school did - perhaps it was repeat hugging that was a problem? I walk up to people at the DZ and give them a hug all the time. I give people I know hugs in stores and out in the open - why is this viewed as a negative thing? Why do the schools feel the need to impose their feelings on hugs onto children who's disipline they are not responsible for?

If people think that its fine that something as basic as interaction with people (through a hug) is a right to be taken away, it will be even easier to take away other basic rights.

How the hell do you find that funny??

Jen

Arianna Frances

[Rebecca 0]

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How the hell do you find that funny??

I was wondering that myself...


Remember that "sex" scene in Demolition Man? Where Sandra Bullock and Sly Stallone sit across from each other to "do it" without exchanging ANY fluids?

Stupid at first (like the whole movie), but now it's a little scary too.

What's next? No handshakes? No socialization? Mandatory body condoms?

you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' -- well do you, punk?

[mailin 0]

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Remember that "sex" scene in Demolition Man?

I'm gonna have those images stuck in my head all day now!



Jen

Arianna Frances

[masterrig 1]

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Whew! Good thing they did that, otherwise kids might be able to comfort one another, greet each other joyfully, say thanks with physical contact and basically experience all the many benfits of positive physical touch.

Asshats. This is exacty the sort of thing they'd have done at my high school.

________________________________

Seems like, there's 'asshats' in every aspect of our society. I don't care what it is. It'd be a damned shame if, those kids grew-up to be caring, feeling people. I don't mean 'feeling' in any other sense than 'inner' feelings. (I know dz.com.)


Chuck

[AlexCrowley 0]

Hi Jen, interesting point. But I'm not sure I understand you correctly. Are you saying you trained to be a teacher and started teaching in the 80s, or that you started going to school in the 80s and have trained to be a teacher but do not yet have any long term experience within the MA school system.

I'm a big hug person too, I think it's an essential part of being human. At the least I'll greet people with a handshake at the dropzone, and I generally try to catch everyone I can (of course, I've just started at Jumptown, so maybe I'll check out your theory on hugging people this weekend).

The four teachers with whom I've spoken most often. One is a high school english teacher who has been teaching in the NH public school system for 25 years. Another are a married couple, one a director of music, the other an comp sci teacher at a prestigious school in North MA now, and with 16 years in the system. The other is a junior high music teacher out of Southern MA for 6. Along the way I've also had the opportunity to discuss the situation with other teachers (including my childs over the last few years) to find out their views of their jobs (not just hugging but standardized testing, discipline, parental involvement, career support from government, funding issues and grants etc). The initial conversation started with the English teacher, and it's been something I try to ask all teachers about.

So while I dont claim to speak as someone involved in the system I do base my opinion on first hand information from multiple parties. Neither was I commenting on the rule being stupid, only that the school itself must be in a difficult position.

With regards to teachers calling parents, it helps if the parents care and this seems to be based mostly on demographics. The couple who work in the private sector deal with pupils from moderately affluent areas, who's parents are involved in their child's development and are supportive, mostly educated professionals. The english and music teachers both teach in areas that are poorer and have a higher crime rate, their schools less funding and more overcrowded and their pupils are, on the whole, the sons and daughters of people who work blue collar jobs and are less likely to have had any college time, their experience in the public system is that a large segment of the parents display little to no guidance to their children and can both give several personal accounts of both being verbally abused by parents who refused to hear that their son/daughter might have actually done something wrong; and stories of parents who they've never spoken too and appear to provide zero support to their kids.

You're right that it may have been a repeat hug, without details its tough to say. My initial post was simply trying to understand why a school might implement a zero tolerance policy and issues that might have contributed.

As for me finding it funny? I guess being off-kilter lets you view things from a different angle, it just read funny to me, if asked what I felt my inalienable rights were I can't imagine at which point I'd consider hugging to be one of them.

Plus it's school. It's supposed to suck!!!

TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

[Fast 0]

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As for me finding it funny? I guess being off-kilter lets you view things from a different angle, it just read funny to me, if asked what I felt my inalienable rights were I can't imagine at which point I'd consider hugging to be one of them.

Plus it's school. It's supposed to suck!!!

At every point you should consider that your right. If you start to give up the simple basic things such as hugging and such you begin to lose sight of what is really important. Overall personal freedom.

I know its hard to belive but thats why we have this nice country of ours. It sure has gone down the tubes as of late though. I mean from every corner we are constantly being asked to "give up" something. Patriot Act, Hugging, Income, free speech in college... The list goes on.

Most people don't know about, don't care about, or think its worth it, to give up the things that we are losing. Its pretty stupid to me.

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[AlexCrowley 0]

Fast, I'm in full agreement. I discussed issues about giving up rights for the illusion of freedom in the Iran/Iraq thread - feel free to check it out.

Perhaps we should have a Hugging constitutional amendment. ;)

TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

[kallend 1,679]

At what point does a display of affection become inappropriate in school? Passing notes, holding hands, hugging, kissing, groping, blow job....?

If you think a line should be drawn somewhere, you can't fault those who choose to draw it differently than you do?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kelpdiver 2]

We have clear standardsthat remove groping (assault) and blowjobs from the equation. Same for passing notes during class.

I hate to think how much more messed up the kids will get when any sort of physical touch is forbidden. Makes for a really lame graduation - you go around shaking each other's hands?

Isn't there a bumper sticker - Hugs, not Handguns? Whatever will they do now?

[Skyrad 0]

So whats the big deal? In England it is illegal to hug at school, the work place or indeed any public place. Its an offence under the Public indecency Act of 1947 (Section 2 subsection 9 clause 4.7) It was introduced to stop promiscuity after WWII and is still enforced throughout the country and is punishable by a £1000 fine or seven days imprisonment. Don't worry though if you are a forigener the Police will normally let you off with a warning or turn a blind eye.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[kelpdiver 2]

I'm speechless.

[Rebecca 0]

Hugging in England is illegal in public????



I had no idea.



That's retarded.

you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' -- well do you, punk?

[Skyrad 0]

You had no idea???? Are you kidding? I thought everyone knew that. Is it really unusual in America?

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[christelsabine 1]

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So whats the big deal? In England it is illegal to hug at school, the work place or indeed any public place. Its an offence under the Public indecency Act of 1947 (Section 2 subsection 9 clause 4.7) It was introduced to stop promiscuity after WWII and is still enforced throughout the country and is punishable by a £1000 fine or seven days imprisonment. Don't worry though if you are a forigener the Police will normally let you off with a warning or turn a blind eye.

With that fine, they pay all the cameras which are installed at every corner. I once saw a video showing a young couple somewhere in a corner..... no, no, not hugging..... as that's forbidden! No, making noisy monkey love....

LMAO..LMAO....


Bwahahaha

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[Skyrad 0]

Mmmmm.....Monkey love, my faviourite! Second only to a good hot mug of monkey tea!

Well, I am suprised that people didn't know tht its illegal to hug in public, Scotland has changed their law on this slightly. in England until 1985 it was illegal for a man and a woman who were not married to hold hands in public on a Sunday.

It is also illegal to have a pigsty outside your house in London.

Did you know that it is illegal to enter the Houses of Parliament in a suit of armour or that until 1976 cab drivers were required by law to carry a bale of hay to feed a horse?

And it is still illegal for cabbies to carry rabid dogs or corpses and by law they must ask all passengers if they have small pox or the plague.


It is law that requires Royal Navy ships which enter the Port of London to provide a barrel of rum to the Constable of the Tower of London.

And it is still an offence to beat or shake any carpet rug or mat in any street in the Metropolitan Police District, although you are allowed to shake a doormat before 8am.
Also until recent trading laws came into effect you could sell a newspaper on a Sunday but not fish and chips.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[kelpdiver 2]

It's a bit surprising. Don't French men kiss each other in greeting? Would Lance be in jail for his repeated violations at the TdF?

[Skyrad 0]

Yes Frenchmen do go around kissing each other damn bizare behaviour if you ask me. But they also eat horses,boiled Lambs brain, snails and frogs legs then have the cheek to comment on our food!
For reasons of being kind to the Frenchys Waterloo Train Station has a partial exculsion order to the Act which allows them Frenchys to say good bye to each other before they get on the Eurostar to go through the tunnel back to France.
Personaly I think its an errosion of our way of life and we should make the buggers shake hands like respectable Englishmen.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[gringito 0]

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But they also eat horses,boiled Lambs brain, snails and frogs legs then have the cheek to comment on our food!

Good point on the the French President's comment about British food! That was out of line. However, I've come to expect nothing more from that man but arrogance and smugness!

Green Grass and High Tides under Blue Skies

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[christelsabine 1]

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Good point on the the French President's comment about British food! That was out of line. However, I've come to expect nothing more from that man but arrogance and smugness!

Could you kindly explain what in detail you mean? You aren't defending British food, are you? Or you are a huge Chirac fan, perhaps?

I feel confused, please enlighten me. Thx. My poor english, you know...

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[gringito 0]

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Could you kindly explain what in detail you mean? You aren't defending British food, are you? Or you are a huge Chirac fan, perhaps?

I feel confused, please enlighten me. Thx. My poor english, you know...


I can't rightly defend British food because I've never been truly introduced to it. However, what gives President Chirac the right to bastardize another countries food! It obviously gave the Brits enough strength to help liberate France, not once- but twice! And as for Chirac, sorry sweatheart, but I don't hold that high of an opinion of him!

Green Grass and High Tides under Blue Skies

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[kelpdiver 2]

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Could you kindly explain what in detail you mean? You aren't defending British food, are you? Or you are a huge Chirac fan, perhaps?

Chirac was pretty right - what British cuisine? But better kept to oneself.

I feel an urge to quote Arthur Dent on the 'qualities' of a proper English sandwich.

[TomAiello 25]

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Chirac was pretty right - what British cuisine? But better kept to oneself.

The British invented Fish and Chips, which is one of my personal favorites.

-- Tom Aiello

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