Kris 0 #26 May 9, 2005 QuoteI do not believe a plane hit the Pentagon. I have seen two different videos and neither look like a plane. And too, I have never spotted anything that looks like plane wreckage in the pics. If a jumbo jet crashed, bits a pieces of the plane would be there. Oh yea, and those big ass wings too! You may want to read this, then... Popular Mechanics: Debunking the 9/11 Myths Also, there's test video out on the net of an F-4 Phantom being driven into a reinforced concrete wall at over 300kts. It was a test done to see what would happen if a plane crashed into the containment vessel of a nuclear reactor. The plane disintegrated. Any part that hit the concrete was pretty much vaporized. The concrete walls at the Pentagon are also heavily reinforced, and the windows are blastproof as well. This wasn't like a plane crash, where the pilot trys to hit as slow as possible and wreckage gets strewn all over creation. The plane that hit the Pentagon was going full cruise. Fast aluminium vs concrete....hmmm.Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #27 May 9, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuoteJake Jacoby was the COO of Metrocall. He died on Flight 77. He was a regular shooter at my range - many there went to the funeral. I'd met him many times it happened That's what I wanted to know. Sorry to hear about your friend... I read about that person. He may have died in that plane, but probably not because it slammed into the Pentagon. Have you any idea what would happen to a plane traveling that fast, carrying that much fuel and hitting a solid wall like the Pentagon? Did you see what was left of the plane that crashed in Pa. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
br0k3n 0 #28 May 9, 2005 We all know Pearl Harbour was staged by the US, so is it really any suprise that 9/11 was...... ----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #29 May 9, 2005 QuoteWe all know Pearl Harbour was staged by the US, so is it really any suprise that 9/11 was...... I thought Israel was responsible for Sept. 11? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
br0k3n 0 #30 May 9, 2005 Quote You may want to read this, then... Popular Mechanics: Debunking the 9/11 Myths Interestingly Ben Chertoff, the chief editor of the popular science piece, is cousins with Michael Chertoff, the new Secretery of Homeland Security, an agency which owes its very existence to the establishment version of the 9/11 attack. QuoteAlso, there's test video out on the net of an F-4 Phantom being driven into a reinforced concrete wall at over 300kts. It was a test done to see what would happen if a plane crashed into the containment vessel of a nuclear reactor. An F4 is considerable smaller then a 757....----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kris 0 #31 May 9, 2005 QuoteAn F4 is considerable smaller then a 757.... And the wall the 757 hit was considerably larger than the test section the F-4 hit. Sigh, I guess some people have to see conspiracy whereve they go.Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #32 May 9, 2005 QuoteQuoteAn F4 is considerable smaller then a 757.... And the wall the 757 hit was considerably larger than the test section the F-4 hit. Sigh, I guess some people have to see conspiracy whereve they go. Wasn't the entire 9/11 conspiracy the brainchild of Lee Harvey Oswald? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
br0k3n 0 #33 May 9, 2005 Quote Sigh, I guess some people have to see conspiracy whereve they go. Im not trying to call conspiracy here, im just stating that if you are going argue the fact at least use information, or facts that are relavent. Comparing an F4 to a 757 is not proving anything..----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #34 May 9, 2005 I think it was all a plot by the US government, (in league with the Zionist protocols), who killed JFK AND Marilyn Monroe, and are in league with the aliens who are creating crop circles & sticking electronic probes up people butts & are running the CIA & sending mind-controlling rays down from sattelites & fluoridating our drinking water so that the Mafia can continue to sell black trenchcoats to our teenagers, along with heavy metal music that has Satanic messages recorded backwards in it (so that anytime they do something bad we're not really responsible for how they were raised) and Elvis & Bigfoot are having an orgie with Jacko and Jackie-O. But of course some would say that's just my opinion. But they have been duped by the government, or they are in on the whole conspiracy. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrunkMonkey 0 #35 May 9, 2005 QuoteIm not trying to call conspiracy here, im just stating that if you are going argue the fact at least use information, or facts that are relavent. Comparing an F4 to a 757 is not proving anything.. No, not proving anything, but presenting an analagous situation, and the theory that it shows. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
br0k3n 0 #36 May 9, 2005 QuoteQuoteIm not trying to call conspiracy here, im just stating that if you are going argue the fact at least use information, or facts that are relavent. Comparing an F4 to a 757 is not proving anything.. No, not proving anything, but presenting an analagous situation, and the theory that it shows. ok so if we replace the F4 with say a paper airplane, then we still present a "analagous situation" but can you see how ridiculous it gets... The argument was that because an F4 flown into a reinforced container at high speed totally disintigrated, then the same should apply for a 757....----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #37 May 9, 2005 QuoteI think it was all a plot by the US government, (in league with the Zionist protocols), who killed JFK AND Marilyn Monroe, and are in league with the aliens who are creating crop circles & sticking electronic probes up people butts & are running the CIA & sending mind-controlling rays down from sattelites & fluoridating our drinking water so that the Mafia can continue to sell black trenchcoats to our teenagers, along with heavy metal music that has Satanic messages recorded backwards in it (so that anytime they do something bad we're not really responsible for how they were raised) and Elvis & Bigfoot are having an orgie with Jacko and Jackie-O. But of course some would say that's just my opinion. But they have been duped by the government, or they are in on the whole conspiracy. Aaahaa.... ... and they think I'm weird when I wear my tin-foil helmet. http://zapatopi.net/afdb.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Flygurl 0 #38 May 9, 2005 I was a member of the FEMA search and rescue operation and was at ground zero for 15 days. The experience is one that is still difficult for me to talk about and I rarely do. It's not possible for me to even begin to describe to you the horrors of the 9/11 attack. The pictures you saw on the news, the film you watched on television did not convey even a fraction of what it was to be there among the debris of twisted metal, glass, concrete, and pieces of flesh that were once people. In the fourteen days I spent working the site my dogs recovered hundreds of human pieces and many bodies. It was a life changing experience, the scenes of which are etched permanently on the surface of my mind. That all being said, I realize I have a rather different view. It makes me both sad and angry that people would prefer to argue over details they don't understand or have access to. It only serves to divide us by turning the reality of the attack into a political battle. This was not an attack on our politics. It was an attack on our way of life. To all the American troops and allied forces I give you my thanks. My thoughts are with you.________________________________________ "One out of every four American's are suffering from some form of mental illness. Think of your three best friends. If they're okay, then it's you." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alias 0 #39 May 9, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuoteJake Jacoby was the COO of Metrocall. He died on Flight 77. He was a regular shooter at my range - many there went to the funeral. I'd met him many times it happened That's what I wanted to know. Sorry to hear about your friend... I read about that person. He may have died in that plane, but probably not because it slammed into the Pentagon. Care to elaborate on how he died in your opinion. And I'm still curious on why there are no video's, or stills of the flight coming in.....plenty of sources to have documented it. Very interesting to me Carpe Diem Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #40 May 9, 2005 QuoteCare to elaborate on how he died in your opinion. And I'm still curious on why there are no video's, or stills of the flight coming in.....plenty of sources to have documented it. Very interesting to me Because there were no video cameras in the area. The only cameras war a time lapse camera set up on the Pentagon. Contrary to popular belief, there are no Hotels near the Pentagon except for the Sheridan up the hill from Arlington Cemetary at Ft. Meyers (iirc) and only one gas station. Everything else is over in Crystal City. Why would any hotel or gas station have their cameras pointed into the air? I have seen many pictures of the Pentagon after the crash and their is debris from any airplane everywhere. You also have to remember, the Pentagon isn't built like a standard office building. Even the windows are designed to hold up to an explosion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alias 0 #41 May 9, 2005 Quote QuoteCare to elaborate on how he died in your opinion. And I'm still curious on why there are no video's, or stills of the flight coming in.....plenty of sources to have documented it. Very interesting to me Because there were no video cameras in the area. The only cameras war a time lapse camera set up on the Pentagon. Contrary to popular belief, there are no Hotels near the Pentagon except for the Sheridan up the hill from Arlington Cemetary at Ft. Meyers (iirc) and only one gas station. Everything else is over in Crystal City. Why would any hotel or gas station have their cameras pointed into the air? I have seen many pictures of the Pentagon after the crash and their is debris from any airplane everywhere. You also have to remember, the Pentagon isn't built like a standard office building. Even the windows are designed to hold up to an explosion. What about VDOT cams? Wash Blvd - 395? Crash was near the heliport which I would think would be under vid security, among other areas. Being the Pentagon, you would think there would be security cams all over the place.... But you points are valid to me Carpe Diem Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikkey 0 #42 May 10, 2005 I recently saw an interesting documentary about this. The camera issue has been explained - the plane went too fast to be caught by the low "frame rate" of the security camera. The documentary explained how the plane disintegrated after impact and how the design of the Pentagon saved many lives. It also showed that they actually found part of the left wing under the rubble in the ground outside the impact. The plane came in very shallow and fast on an angle and the left wing touched the ground and partly broke away just before impact. There is no reason for a conspiracy theory.--------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #43 May 10, 2005 QuoteI recently saw an interesting documentary about this. The camera issue has been explained - the plane went too fast to be caught by the low "frame rate" of the security camera. The documentary explained how the plane disintegrated after impact and how the design of the Pentagon saved many lives. It also showed that they actually found part of the left wing under the rubble in the ground outside the impact. The plane came in very shallow and fast on an angle and the left wing touched the ground and partly broke away just before impact. There is no reason for a conspiracy theory. You are correct. There is a hill towards the west of the Pentagon where the Sheridan sits, The plane came over that hill and came in low across Arlington Cemetary, crossed I-95 perpendicularly and slammed into the Pentagon. My guess is it was too low to be picked up by any cameras at the nearby hotels, even if they had cameras pointing towards Arlington Cemetary because of the interchange of I-95 and U.S. Rt. 1. Anybody who has actually been to the scene of the crash would understand what I'm describing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikkey 0 #44 May 10, 2005 QuoteYou are correct. BEER! This is a first... --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #45 May 10, 2005 QuoteQuoteYou are correct. BEER! This is a first... I must be getting old and soft in the head. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
03CLS 0 #46 May 11, 2005 I still trying to figure out why after the WTC's were hit, AFB didn't have planes in the air. Instead them came from the Virginia Beach area Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #47 May 11, 2005 QuoteI still trying to figure out why after the WTC's were hit, AFB didn't have planes in the air. Instead them came from the Virginia Beach area I don't remember the details, but I have heard an explaination of this. Here is a good site that debunks a lot of the misinformation about the Pentagon crasc. http://libertyboy.free.fr/misc/attack/2001_09_11_pentagon_plane/index.php Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vpozzoli 0 #48 May 13, 2005 QuoteFollwed this a while back on another site debate. I believe it happened - among othe reasons, I met a widow of one that perished on the flight in. But found it curious that there is no footage available. No security cams, no VDOT, no gas station cams, hotel cams etc. One point brought up on the other debate that my limited research on the web could not find at all. Just found that curious Here you go http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Pentagonfireball.jpg Vale Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alias 0 #49 May 13, 2005 Thanks - I've seen that. I speaking of specific footage catching the plane coming in. Just not out there for the public - if out there at all Carpe Diem Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vpozzoli 0 #50 May 13, 2005 QuoteThanks - I've seen that. I speaking of specific footage catching the plane coming in. Just not out there for the public - if out there at all Like somebody pointed out in previous posts, security cameras have a slow frame rate (aroung several seconds per frame), the chances of catching such a fast object are abismally slim. And even if you did all you'd have is basically a still image of a flying object. This lack of footage is probably due to a form of 'observational bias', such as "In NY at any time there is a high number of people carrying and using handycams, the surroundings of the Pentagon on the other hand are not so hot tourist-wise, hence the lack of people walking around it carrying handycams". This explains the lack of footage, which has nothing to do with the event itself. Cheers, Vale Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
