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ChasingBlueSky

Fears of Troops Spread Thin, Specter of the Draft

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-a solder who believes in what he is fighting for will kill 10 of his enimies. indentured servants won't give that same fight.

Exactly. It has been proven many times in history that the passionate individual will always make a better soldier. Look at the people that choose the risk of being convicted of treason when the fought against the British in both America and Ireland to fight for independence.

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- people who invigorate the economy of a country are the ones serving their country thr most.

I wouldn't go that far. Everyone gives back in their own way and all parts are good for the country. You are being counter productive by trying to measure which is better or best.

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- people who can't or won't be a part of the economy end up on welfare, in the army, working for the government, in gangs, homeless,as cops, etc etc.



Even with the intentions you may have had with that statement, it really is an insult to those that have served to compare it to a gang member or to say they had no choice. Yes, the military does seem to target lower income neighborhoods - but that is just a good marketing and business plan that many corporations follow (ie going for a target audience that is willing to "buy" what you are selling). But all walks of life can and do end up in civil service. That is the great thing - they can make the choice if they want to serve as a cop, gov't worker, or in the military.
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you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

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After the fall of communism, a comparison of defense budgets revealed that America spent more on defense relative to a "perceived" threat, while Russia's defense spending remained constant based on their perception of an "actual" threat to balance their economy. In other words, U.S. defense spending bounced around when scared.
The perception in most every conflict is that "troops are spread too thin." The issue coming to fore are the upcoming elections to form the "official" Iraqi government. Troops are spread too thin for that--there's a very real fear the Iraqi govt. could be destabilized during this transition. In terms of global security, our two-front strategy as well as our status as being the "world's police force" backed us into that corner.
The draft terrifies politicians and citizens. During the Vietnam war politicians routinely sought deferments or preferential assignments for their children. The priviledged class always finds a way to save their young. The largest anti-war riots occurred prior to the Civil War and World War I. Should everyone serve? No. Why? It would be an unnecessary and absurd drain on our economy. Each and every American already owes over $25,000 to the national debt!!! Our next crisis isn't terrorism, it will be the lack of social security due to our failure of fiscal restraint!
I served. Everyone who pays taxes and is a lawful citizen also serves the nation. I think the highest service one can give to their country is one towards helping others and peace. Don't attack liberals. They gave you social security, welfare, desegregation, FMLA to keep your job when you or a loved one is ill, No Child Left Behind, etc., etc. Liberals simply prefer examining peaceful options before war. Conservatives would rather kill them all and let God sort 'em out. From what I gather, when it comes to terrorists, the only solution is: until you can find and destroy the sources that fund terrorism, you must use terror against the terrorists. In Jessica Stern's "Terror in the Name of God," she points out that terrorist organizations recruit the disenfranchised to commit (self) destruction for the furtherment of their organization both politically and economically. This may strike some as surprising, but the FBI didn't kill the mob. Big business (accounting regulations) killed the mob in Vegas. The FBI mopped up. The same is true for most forms of organized terrorism. We need to dry up the mosquito pits--their sources for $$. If it takes getting medieval on 'em, then that's what civilized society must do.

You're always the starter in your own life!

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it might be a little easier if the people who VOLUNTEERED to serve would have the balls to live up to their commitment and not try and duck out of it when they are asked to do their job in a place outside of the US, what did the expect when they joined the military.



Didn't you know? They didn't join up to serve their country, they joined up for the free college money, they don't owe their country shit... :S:P
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

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Is anyone here from a country with such a policy? What is the general attitude WRT it in your neck of the woods?

Elvisio "DB cooper ain't got nothin' on me" Rodriguez



In Spain we had to do military service until just 5 years ago. I am not sure why they stoped it. I do remember that was extremely unfair and almost to the point of unconstitutional, because only guys had to do it, leaving the woman and the guys who had connections in the government with one more year than the rest to advance in their professional career.

Also it pretty much worked this way, the first 3 months you had to do boot camp, and the rest 6-8 months you had to work for the military, as military police, driver, admin, whatever for free. I think they paid you like 15$ a month plus public transportation.

I kept studying and putting excuses not to go (as most people), now i prefer to support my country by working hard and paying taxes so the really motivated military type guy is well prepared for whatever mission he has to do.

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There would be no need to discuss any of this if Bush and Rumsfeld had been remotely competent in their decision making process before and during this war.

They dug the US into this quagmire.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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Before the government goes to the draft, I think they should start taking the people who WANT to be in the military, but the military won't let them.

Examples:
Gays and Lesbians who are open about it.
People with minor medical problems

I took the AFOQT to join the air force. I scored through the roof on everything. They still call me, six years later, saying "do you want to fly?" What they forget is that they rejected me because I get heartburn and take a little pill every day. It's not life-threatening if I don't get my medicine, just inconvenient. But, because I take a daily medication, I am not allowed to serve. Period. Because "you might not always have access to your medicine." There's probably a ton of jobs in that I could do in the military that wouldn't put me at risk for not having access to my medicine.

It seems silly to me that they reject so many people who are able to serve, because they can't guarantee them access to medicine or medical treatment if they need it. If someone wants to serve, and is able to serve in some capacity, let them. Just guarantee them a position where access to medicine wouldn't be a problem. If we have the people with minor medical issues serving in the positions where medical access and treatment are guaranteed, that frees up more people without medical problems to do other things.

I was turned down because of heartburn. My friend Julie was turned down because of moderate scoliosis...didn't need surgery or anything, just caused mild back pain once in a while. My dad was turned down because of flat feet, which didn't bother him in the least. My friend Mike was in the military, but given a medical discharge because he lost some hearing in one ear due to working in an artillery unit. My roommate's cousin wasn't allowed to serve because he's diabetic. A friend of mine wasn't allowed in because of a peanut allergy.

Take the people who want to serve, and are able to serve in some capacity, before you take people who want nothing to do with the military. A willing soldier is going to be a much better asset to a unit than someone who doesn't want to be there.

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***I want to be the first kid on my block with a confirmed kill.

Or the first on your block to come home in a box.

You should take a listen to Country Joe's anti-war anthem . And it's 1,2,3 what are we fighting for......
FYI, ole Country Joe is a Nam-Vetern himself not a draft dodger. The man had something to say about war. Why some would want to glorify war is beyond me. The Feds new angle to ensare those not fully aware of what they will get is to paint the war "effort" as doing the patriotic duty that you are obligated to do. Shame on you if you do not join. Join and be a "hero" admired by the world. Sounds much like tactics used all around the world to attract those easily accepted to fervorish propaganda. Truth is, as most know, they need bodies on the ground. If your kid, husband or wife dies so that Iraq can still be in turmoil 20 years from now I believe it is in vain. The history of the Mid East is the benchmark that predicts that true peace will never come to that region of the world. How do retreat? Can we ever retreat now that we are occupying Iraq as an invading force? The future of the US in Iraq will most likely be a long one.
"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

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"The increasing seriousness of the situation emboldened Democratic presidential nominee Sen. John Kerry (D-Mass.) to assert during the campaign that re-electing President Bush could mean bringing back the draft.

"With George Bush, the plan for Iraq is more of the same, and the potential is great for a return to the draft," he said in an interview with The Des Moines Register.

To rebut that assertion, House Republicans arranged an election-eve vote on a reinstatement of the draft that saw it defeated 402-2, sending a clear signal that the idea was politically unpalatable."

Same old shit, different day. Draft ain't gonna happen, kiddies.

mh

.

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Everyone knows the draft will never happen and that we are not remotely close to being spread too thin.



I'm almost certain that statement is 100% wrong.

I'd go so far as to say that there is a fairly large percentage of people that think the draft is a distinct possibility -- which is why we're having this discussion to begin with.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

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You're telling me that you actually believed there was no way, at all, that he could have lost?

Then how come you never took any of the bets I offered? It would have been a sure thing for you.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

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You're telling me that you actually believed there was no way, at all, that he could have lost?



Affirmative. Some people are able to make logical conclusions based on fasts and events. It also takes the ability to be unbiased and not a sheep to their party.



Forty-two

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You're telling me that you actually believed there was no way, at all, that he could have lost?



Affirmative. Some people are able to make logical conclusions based on fasts and events. It also takes the ability to be biased and not a sheep to their party.



Dude.... :S

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You're wasting your time. Sheep can't comprehend logic. They just follow their masters blindly. Everyone knows the draft will never happen and that we are not remotely close to being spread too thin.



Tuna

Lets try this again what is your source of info to your statement "we are not remotely close to being spread too thin."

You've made this statement 3 times:o we've asked for your source of info with no backup so is this just your opinion, something that came to you in a dream, a wish, or have you been talking with your friends at the highest level of the Gov't that you can't disclose.

Unless you reply with something better than "42"
I guess that makes you a aheep.If you disagree nod your head.

R.I.P.


R.I.P.

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Everyone knows the draft will never happen and that we are not remotely close to being spread too thin.



I'm almost certain that statement is 100% wrong.



It has to be, because it's clear that we're at least remotely close to being spread too thin. I heard on the radio that the national guard had to hire an extra thousand recruiters because they're not getting new blood. It's also clear that we were able to focus on Bin Laden or Iraq, but not both.

The first part of the statement is true so long as the current situation holds. There will never be a draft - the government will raise incentives. But should a more successful attack happen than the last one, say one where hundreds of thousands die, the draft could show up in a hurry.

It's worth noting that in such a circumstance, the membership of the USPA may be quite attractive.

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You're telling me that you actually believed there was no way, at all, that he could have lost?



Affirmative. Some people are able to make logical conclusions based on fasts and events. It also takes the ability to be biased and not a sheep to their party.



Dude.... :S



Glad I wasn't the only one that caught that!
_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

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It's also clear that we were able to focus on Bin Laden or Iraq, but not both.



Completely false. We focused on them both.


What part of Pakistan and GW giving up on OBL is maintaining a focus on both fronts?
_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

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You're telling me that you actually believed there was no way, at all, that he could have lost?



Affirmative. Some people are able to make logical conclusions based on fasts and events. It also takes the ability to be biased and not a sheep to their party.



Dude.... :S



Glad I wasn't the only one that caught that!



Me thinks everyone except "the 42 caught it" but what the point confusing the issue with the facts.:S

Bump:D:D

R.I.P.

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"The problem we have here is that the Pentagon has been reacting to initiatives of the enemy rather than taking initiatives from which the enemy has to react to," McCain said.


Well, what a surprise when the mission was ill conceived to begin with and the purpose of the mission changes monthly.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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BTW the military has lots of jobs besides killing people you could be a pilot, computer jocky, medic mechanic, supply clerk,



Just to be clear... all of the jobs you listed have the ability to, have been required to, and will be required to in the future, kill people in the course of their duties as a soldier, sailor, airman, or marine

If someone chooses to join the military, with any job except Chaplain, they should expect to have to go to war and have to kill someone. It may never happen, but it is part of the package.

J
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

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