SkyDekker 1,150 #101 November 16, 2004 QuoteSimpler due to the lawsuit culture here in the US? The lawsuit culture is fucking bullshit, there are some honest to god lawsuits that should happen, but most of them I've seen/heard about are total bullshit. Awarding millions of dollars for stupidity, destroying companies and people's lives simply because you can sue them and take EVERYthing they have. Its bullshit. That is part of it yes. we have previously argued enough about other reasons related to gun ownership Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #102 November 16, 2004 QuoteThat is part of it yes. we have previously argued enough about other reasons related to gun ownership Yeah, I'm really tired of that arguement here. No one will convence another on DZ.com to change their stance, so it comes down to mental masterbation, a waste of time. I'm right and you're wrong anyways. j/k We both have our opinions.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Botellines 0 #103 November 17, 2004 To be honest i think it is impossible to answer that question till you are in the moment. However, i think that if i did, i would aim at non-lethal parts of the body. I know, not very wise. There is some other questions that are worth taking into consideration, such as: Would i be able to restrain mayself from using it in the middle of a non life threatening arguement? Could i, in the middle of an adrenaline rush, make a 100% accurate analisys of when a perceived threat is worth of being dealt with my gun? Do i want to commit myself to take care of a tool that in the wrong hands could hurt other people, even my own family? I cannot answer 100% sure to any of those questions, so i don´t want a gun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhillyKev 0 #104 November 17, 2004 QuoteQuoteThat is part of it yes. we have previously argued enough about other reasons related to gun ownership Yeah, I'm really tired of that arguement here. No one will convence another on DZ.com to change their stance, so it comes down to mental masterbation, a waste of time. I'm right and you're wrong anyways. j/k We both have our opinions. Actually, a couple of people on here admitted that they changed their stance about the AWB based on the info they got here. However, I generally stay out of the gun threads now because they are generally a couple of specific posters, making multiple posts in a row saying the same thing over and over. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #105 November 17, 2004 QuoteHowever, I generally stay out of the gun threads now because they are generally a couple of specific posters, making multiple posts in a row saying the same thing over and over. I guess I've been one of those posters off and on the past few years. *shrug* Ohwell. I was going to reply with something witty and sarcastic, but I really don't care anymore. The only positive thing I can see from my postings is that people may have learned that people who take steps to defend themselves aren't crazed gun nuts like certain aspects of the media try to say and that we take it very very seriously. We understand the concequences of our actions and understand what will happen in the aftermath of a shooting. We also understand that we would rather have to live through that ordeal then have our lives or the lives of our families threatened. That and I know of a certain individual that bought a Glock on my recommendation and is very happy with the weapon.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites peacefuljeffrey 0 #106 November 17, 2004 QuoteIt pissed me off. I was really glad that the neighbor caught the perpetrators in the first one and held them (yes, at gunpoint) until the police came. He said he'd've let them leave rather than shoot in a neighborhood, though, and I'm glad he thought that way, too. I'd've felt terrible to have even some punk shot over a damn bicycle and some (admittedly nice) jewelry. The issue, if he had been forced to justifiably shoot, would not have been your bicycle but YOUR NEIGHBOR'S LIFE. Would you have felt terrible if, during the course of trying to take your bicycle with your neighbor watching, he tried to attack your neighbor who was trying to protect your property for you? That's the real measure, here. The "stuff" would be irrelevant; the issue would be the attack on your neighbor just for trying to do what's right and prevent or stop a theft. QuoteIt's pretty much all stuff. Yes, my jewelry, the videos of our son when he was a baby, the camera, my bicycle (lots more) -- it's all stuff. It could have been a fire, it could have been a flood, and it would probably have been far more devastating. I can get more stuff. Better stuff. Different stuff. The time I spend acquiring that was not wasted; it was time spent in fruitful and sometimes enjoyable activities. Just as I don't regret most things I've done that didn't turn out well; they're part of my experience, and what makes me who I am. And that's not wasted. You seem awfully forgiving of people who would steal from you parts of that which give your life meaning. Of course photos of your son, his first baby shoes, the lock of his hair from infancy... those things are just "stuff" and you have your son himself and the memories of him too, to make up your life. But if those things did not mean a lot to you, you wouldn't be keeping them. Therefore, to claim you wouldn't be bothered to have them stolen by some scumbag rings false. I think it sounds like you're trying too hard to forgive the crime. I could almost believe you think a thief does his victim some sort of favor! -Jeffrey-Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites peacefuljeffrey 0 #107 November 17, 2004 QuoteQuote I'm not going to stand there and as him if he's there only to take my TV or to come back and rape my soon to be wife. I would be the same, but I guess most burglars run when they are confronted... if they are staying to argue the toss - fair game. As for PJ's statement on shooting someone going to burn the house... with no one in it... a step too far in my book. I am not saying I definitely would. But I could fill the scenario with "what ifs" like, "What if shooting the guy to prevent the torching was destined to save the lives of three firefighters who would have perished while fighting the blaze?" You could never know... I'm sorry, there is too much meaningful "stuff" in my house to forgive -- and allow --- someone to burn it up all in one night. There's a big difference between having a bicycle stolen and having other very personal belongings taken or destroyed. And when they are ALL of your belongings... I know that people are able to move on after a plain old house fire takes that stuff away -- but don't pretend they are not excruciatingly traumatized, either! My understanding is that that is a very hard thing to get over. And to have it be due to a violation like arson would make it worse. Let's not pretend it would be so easy to replace your entire life's "stuff." -Jeffrey-Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites peacefuljeffrey 0 #108 November 17, 2004 QuoteI mean get real...people are suing McDonalds over hot coffee, You think Mr. RobberRapist guy's wife-kids-mom, isn't going to try to in court, go after some of the marbles you were trying to protect? There is something called "summary judgment," by which the judge can say that there is no justifiable reason for a case to proceed. If the cops say that yours was a clear-cut case of self defense in one's home, they won't have standing to sue because the guy was committing a criminal act. You really don't want to show up in court ... You will become familiar with terms like intent and excessive force. You will be accused of 'laying in wait' because you were prepared. Your background will be closely examined, criminal activities, bank and phone and travel records... Attempts will be made to twist everything ... I think this is an unfounded claim. Don't forget that courts use RULES to govern what is relevant as evidence in a trial. If it can't be shown to be directly relevant, they're not going to let the plaintiff's counsel introduce how many times you went to the range last year, or how many gun magazines you subscribe to. Those things do not prejudice your right to defend yourself. -Jeffrey-Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #102 November 16, 2004 QuoteThat is part of it yes. we have previously argued enough about other reasons related to gun ownership Yeah, I'm really tired of that arguement here. No one will convence another on DZ.com to change their stance, so it comes down to mental masterbation, a waste of time. I'm right and you're wrong anyways. j/k We both have our opinions.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Botellines 0 #103 November 17, 2004 To be honest i think it is impossible to answer that question till you are in the moment. However, i think that if i did, i would aim at non-lethal parts of the body. I know, not very wise. There is some other questions that are worth taking into consideration, such as: Would i be able to restrain mayself from using it in the middle of a non life threatening arguement? Could i, in the middle of an adrenaline rush, make a 100% accurate analisys of when a perceived threat is worth of being dealt with my gun? Do i want to commit myself to take care of a tool that in the wrong hands could hurt other people, even my own family? I cannot answer 100% sure to any of those questions, so i don´t want a gun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #104 November 17, 2004 QuoteQuoteThat is part of it yes. we have previously argued enough about other reasons related to gun ownership Yeah, I'm really tired of that arguement here. No one will convence another on DZ.com to change their stance, so it comes down to mental masterbation, a waste of time. I'm right and you're wrong anyways. j/k We both have our opinions. Actually, a couple of people on here admitted that they changed their stance about the AWB based on the info they got here. However, I generally stay out of the gun threads now because they are generally a couple of specific posters, making multiple posts in a row saying the same thing over and over. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #105 November 17, 2004 QuoteHowever, I generally stay out of the gun threads now because they are generally a couple of specific posters, making multiple posts in a row saying the same thing over and over. I guess I've been one of those posters off and on the past few years. *shrug* Ohwell. I was going to reply with something witty and sarcastic, but I really don't care anymore. The only positive thing I can see from my postings is that people may have learned that people who take steps to defend themselves aren't crazed gun nuts like certain aspects of the media try to say and that we take it very very seriously. We understand the concequences of our actions and understand what will happen in the aftermath of a shooting. We also understand that we would rather have to live through that ordeal then have our lives or the lives of our families threatened. That and I know of a certain individual that bought a Glock on my recommendation and is very happy with the weapon.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #106 November 17, 2004 QuoteIt pissed me off. I was really glad that the neighbor caught the perpetrators in the first one and held them (yes, at gunpoint) until the police came. He said he'd've let them leave rather than shoot in a neighborhood, though, and I'm glad he thought that way, too. I'd've felt terrible to have even some punk shot over a damn bicycle and some (admittedly nice) jewelry. The issue, if he had been forced to justifiably shoot, would not have been your bicycle but YOUR NEIGHBOR'S LIFE. Would you have felt terrible if, during the course of trying to take your bicycle with your neighbor watching, he tried to attack your neighbor who was trying to protect your property for you? That's the real measure, here. The "stuff" would be irrelevant; the issue would be the attack on your neighbor just for trying to do what's right and prevent or stop a theft. QuoteIt's pretty much all stuff. Yes, my jewelry, the videos of our son when he was a baby, the camera, my bicycle (lots more) -- it's all stuff. It could have been a fire, it could have been a flood, and it would probably have been far more devastating. I can get more stuff. Better stuff. Different stuff. The time I spend acquiring that was not wasted; it was time spent in fruitful and sometimes enjoyable activities. Just as I don't regret most things I've done that didn't turn out well; they're part of my experience, and what makes me who I am. And that's not wasted. You seem awfully forgiving of people who would steal from you parts of that which give your life meaning. Of course photos of your son, his first baby shoes, the lock of his hair from infancy... those things are just "stuff" and you have your son himself and the memories of him too, to make up your life. But if those things did not mean a lot to you, you wouldn't be keeping them. Therefore, to claim you wouldn't be bothered to have them stolen by some scumbag rings false. I think it sounds like you're trying too hard to forgive the crime. I could almost believe you think a thief does his victim some sort of favor! -Jeffrey-Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #107 November 17, 2004 QuoteQuote I'm not going to stand there and as him if he's there only to take my TV or to come back and rape my soon to be wife. I would be the same, but I guess most burglars run when they are confronted... if they are staying to argue the toss - fair game. As for PJ's statement on shooting someone going to burn the house... with no one in it... a step too far in my book. I am not saying I definitely would. But I could fill the scenario with "what ifs" like, "What if shooting the guy to prevent the torching was destined to save the lives of three firefighters who would have perished while fighting the blaze?" You could never know... I'm sorry, there is too much meaningful "stuff" in my house to forgive -- and allow --- someone to burn it up all in one night. There's a big difference between having a bicycle stolen and having other very personal belongings taken or destroyed. And when they are ALL of your belongings... I know that people are able to move on after a plain old house fire takes that stuff away -- but don't pretend they are not excruciatingly traumatized, either! My understanding is that that is a very hard thing to get over. And to have it be due to a violation like arson would make it worse. Let's not pretend it would be so easy to replace your entire life's "stuff." -Jeffrey-Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #108 November 17, 2004 QuoteI mean get real...people are suing McDonalds over hot coffee, You think Mr. RobberRapist guy's wife-kids-mom, isn't going to try to in court, go after some of the marbles you were trying to protect? There is something called "summary judgment," by which the judge can say that there is no justifiable reason for a case to proceed. If the cops say that yours was a clear-cut case of self defense in one's home, they won't have standing to sue because the guy was committing a criminal act. You really don't want to show up in court ... You will become familiar with terms like intent and excessive force. You will be accused of 'laying in wait' because you were prepared. Your background will be closely examined, criminal activities, bank and phone and travel records... Attempts will be made to twist everything ... I think this is an unfounded claim. Don't forget that courts use RULES to govern what is relevant as evidence in a trial. If it can't be shown to be directly relevant, they're not going to let the plaintiff's counsel introduce how many times you went to the range last year, or how many gun magazines you subscribe to. Those things do not prejudice your right to defend yourself. -Jeffrey-Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #109 November 17, 2004 When the time comes, you'll know. Same as a malfunction. You have the training and the equipment, and you'll do the right thing if and when the time comes. tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #110 November 17, 2004 QuoteTo be honest i think it is impossible to answer that question till you are in the moment. However, i think that if i did, i would aim at non-lethal parts of the body. I know, not very wise. There is some other questions that are worth taking into consideration, such as: Would i be able to restrain mayself from using it in the middle of a non life threatening arguement? JEEEEZ! If that is a potential issue for you, by all means, NEVER PURCHASE A GUN FOR YOURSELF. PLEASE don't. I think you could poll all of the gun owners here taking part in this thread and ask them if they feel they have even a 1% possibility of using their gun violently in a non-life-threatening "argument" and find NONE responds in the affirmative. I think it is telling that you express this specific kind of self-doubt, and you are one of the posters who has expressed anti-gun sentiment in the past. The reason I say that is because you are not the first person I have met who eschews guns because of such self-doubt about what he/she would do with one; and these people generally also oppose MY right to have guns -- I think they call that "projection." -Jeffrey-Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #111 November 17, 2004 QuoteQuoteWhich looks more Rambo, him with a that hand cannon, or me and and my small Lady Smith .357, or black Glock .40? That's why none of my carry weapons wonder around past stock (besides upgrading the sites or something trivial like that). No custom engraving, no custom engraved grips, nothing. Also, only off the shelf extremely popular defense ammo. No reloads for carry. All of those things can be used against you by a good lawyer for the "see, he was wanting to kill someone, not defend himself" bit. Been reading Ayoob again, Dave? It's a good point, but I don't recall any cases where that has been an issue, up to this point. Better safe than sorry, I guess. If it were in my instance, I would counter that the accuracy job and sight replacements on my pistol (once I get them done) allow me to be more accurate and thus prevent missed shots from endangering others. It can be argued both ways.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,166 #112 November 17, 2004 QuoteBut if those things did not mean a lot to you, you wouldn't be keeping them. Therefore, to claim you wouldn't be bothered to have them stolen by some scumbag rings false. I think it sounds like you're trying too hard to forgive the crime. I could almost believe you think a thief does his victim some sort of favor! Give me a fucking break. You have to really torture what I wrote to infer that from it. I was angry when it happened of course, but it's a lot more effort to maintain anger for very long; it's better to fix the house to make it more burglar-resistant, get a dog, and take other actions. Then move on to the next piece of your own life. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Botellines 0 #113 November 17, 2004 It has happened before. I can post plenty of links where a man shots another over a petty argument. It has happened, and it will happen again. Regarding that poll of yours... Of course no one will admit that there could be a situation when they don´t control their temper. But you don´t believe everything people sais here, right? Go figure, someone threatened to shoot me in this very same forum, yet if you ask him he will probably say he has his temper under control. Okay, i will admit maybe the question it is quite extreme. Few people would shoot someone over a non life threatening argument, but what about to let a petty argument scalate to a life threatening position because you feel safe with your gun, and then be forced to use it? Can you honestly tell me that if you are walking around with your girlfriend and two big bad guys insult her your reaction will be the same if you have a concealed gun than if you don´t? Words only hurt egos, yet some people instead of just walking away or take a defensive stance, they could put themselves in a position where a gun may be eventually drawn. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,150 #114 November 17, 2004 QuoteYou seem awfully forgiving of people who would steal from you parts of that which give your life meaning. Of course photos of your son, his first baby shoes, the lock of his hair from infancy... those things are just "stuff" and you have your son himself and the memories of him too, to make up your life. But if those things did not mean a lot to you, you wouldn't be keeping them. Therefore, to claim you wouldn't be bothered to have them stolen by some scumbag rings false. I think it sounds like you're trying too hard to forgive the crime. I could almost believe you think a thief does his victim some sort of favor! Dude, you must have some powerful crack cocaine at your disposal. At least some home grown mushrooms. Actually, that must have been some wild hallucination to get to those conclusions.....LSD it is. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Botellines 0 #115 November 17, 2004 QuoteLSD it is. Naaahh, i don´t think so, i usually get very mellow and love everybody with LSD. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #116 November 17, 2004 Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- However, I generally stay out of the gun threads now because they are generally a couple of specific posters, making multiple posts in a row saying the same thing over and over. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I guess I've been one of those posters off and on the past few years. *shrug* Nope, didn't mean you. I think what I was referring to is demonstrated right after your post. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #117 November 17, 2004 Quote I think this is an unfounded claim. Don't forget that courts use RULES to govern what is relevant as evidence in a trial. If it can't be shown to be directly relevant, they're not going to let the plaintiff's counsel introduce how many times you went to the range last year, or how many gun magazines you subscribe to. Those things do not prejudice your right to defend yourself. -Jeffrey QuoteI understand your point, I can see I wasn't clear on mine.... The point was... Having to GO to court! Punching a time clock...working overtime to make ends meet. A regular 'Joe Lunch Box' guy that is missing tons of work and paying lawyers with credit cards... Having to 're live' it over and over. I was trying to illustrate that you don't just call the coroner, get a mop and everything is back to normal. And yes, relevance of the evidence needs to be presented prior to it being introduced during the COURT preceding... Deposition prior to that, can be a humbling experience. Maybe it's just me...but having people poking around your life can be extremely stressful. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #118 November 17, 2004 QuoteNope, didn't mean you. I think what I was referring to is demonstrated right after your post. Yeah. Its sad when someone shares similar view points with another person, but the 1st person is ashamed of the actions of the 2nd person, since it makes the view point look extremist and marginalizes the 1st person's arguements. Unfortunately that happens a LOT on heated issues. Look at abortion, there are quite a few folks that don't believe abortion is morally right, but they're ashamed of the extremist religious groups standing outside of Planned Parenthood everyday.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheAnvil 0 #119 November 17, 2004 Absolutely. Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mardigrasbob 0 #120 November 17, 2004 Since this has deteriorated into a vigilante' thread. Does any one recall the situation in Baton Rouge where a father waited at the airport and shot his young son's rapist; live on T.V. circa 1989? Gary Plaucheaux i think. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #121 November 17, 2004 If we're thinking about the same case, didn't the jury in his trial let him off with some insignificant sentence? Extenuating circumstances, justifiable, some BS like that? What that man did was murder, no two ways about it. Maybe you can understand it, maybe you can simpathize with it, maybe you might consider it yourself, but it was still a murder. (all of those yous are collective, and could be replaced with anyone, or I)witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #122 November 17, 2004 Yeah, that's muder. There is one thing that binds all of humanity together. Everysingle person alive is able to commit murder. All it takes is something to snap and it can happen and they'll use what ever means they have available. Be it a pillow, an axe, a pipe wrench, a tire iron, a knife or a gun.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mardigrasbob 0 #123 November 17, 2004 I did my typical 'research after I post' and found out that his name was Jody Plauche, who was kidnapped by his karate teacher in 1984, taken to California, and molested. After the molestor was caught, he was killed by Jody's father, Leon Gary Plauche, 39, stepped from a telephone in the Baton Rouge airport and shot Jeffrey Doucet as he was being escorted through the airport on his way to a police car. The killing was even caught on tape by the local news but the father never went to jail. I also think the video was on Bowling for Columbine, but I guess I have to go rent that POS. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Douva 0 #124 November 17, 2004 QuoteIt has happened before. I can post plenty of links where a man shots another over a petty argument. It has happened, and it will happen again. Regarding that poll of yours... Of course no one will admit that there could be a situation when they don´t control their temper. But you don´t believe everything people sais here, right? Go figure, someone threatened to shoot me in this very same forum, yet if you ask him he will probably say he has his temper under control. Okay, i will admit maybe the question it is quite extreme. Few people would shoot someone over a non life threatening argument, but what about to let a petty argument scalate to a life threatening position because you feel safe with your gun, and then be forced to use it? Can you honestly tell me that if you are walking around with your girlfriend and two big bad guys insult her your reaction will be the same if you have a concealed gun than if you don´t? Words only hurt egos, yet some people instead of just walking away or take a defensive stance, they could put themselves in a position where a gun may be eventually drawn. So far, this hasn't been a problem in any of the states with legalized concealed carry. There have been a small handful of unjustified shootings nationwide, but overall, the screening and training process is pretty effective in preventing this type of action. When you consider the hundreds of thousands or more US citizens legally carrying concealed weapons, your assumptions would lead us to believe there would be daily shootouts around the country. There aren't. I don't know any group of people that takes more abuse than the police, and yet we don't see pissed off police officers opening fire on hecklers on a weekly basis. When was the last time you threw a punch at somebody? You always have with you the ability to throw a punch, but I'm willing to bet it's been quite some time since you used it. The facts simply don't support your argument.I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #125 November 17, 2004 QuoteIt has happened before. I can post plenty of links where a man shots another over a petty argument. It has happened, and it will happen again. Regarding that poll of yours... Of course no one will admit that there could be a situation when they don´t control their temper. But you don´t believe everything people sais here, right? You said that you didn't trust yourself to not get into a temper flareup and use your gun on someone in what you called an "argument." I said that I definitely would not do that. I know it does happen, and that people do it. I am stating that I am not one who would do it, and neither, I believe, are my fellow dropzone.com gun owners. Now you seem to be saying, "If someone says something of himself, believe the opposite, because you just can't trust what people say here." So I guess we should believe that YOU would NOT shoot someone in an argument, and me and Dave and everybody who will claim that we wouldn't do so, WOULD. It's "OPPOSITE DAY," everyone!! QuoteGo figure, someone threatened to shoot me in this very same forum, yet if you ask him he will probably say he has his temper under control. I doubt that any earnest threat to your life was actually made here. QuoteOkay, i will admit maybe the question it is quite extreme. Few people would shoot someone over a non life threatening argument, but what about to let a petty argument scalate to a life threatening position because you feel safe with your gun, and then be forced to use it? Can you honestly tell me that if you are walking around with your girlfriend and two big bad guys insult her your reaction will be the same if you have a concealed gun than if you don´t? I think we are arriving at the crux of this matter, and that is, non-gun-owning leftists tend to withhold trust of their fellow human beings. They assume the worst of their fellow human beings. They live in fear of their fellow human beings. And then they insist that they do not need guns for protection. The most disturbing aspect of this is that the "humanist" left at the same time cannot bring itself to trust the basic goodness in people, especially if those people are honest, law-abiding gun owners, but they have no problem letting violent criminals out of prison. For the record, I am not stupid enough nor egotistical enough to give a shit what some dumb fuck says about my girlfriend, and if she cares so bad that I won't get into a fight and possibly kill someone and go to jail over a comment about her honor, she won't be my girlfriend for long. I really think that your perspective on all this is not where it should be. -Jeffrey-Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
