Cheney's Lesbian Daughter...

[narcimund 0]

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it's not any of Kerry's business, and the use of a person - by name - when the answer did not need that to be clear and complete rankles me.

As has been pointed out by SEVERAL people, Cheney talked openly about it in the VP debate. It's already in the debate realm. IT'S ALREADY IN THE DEBATE REALM. Cheney himself brought it to the debate realm. He didn't object -- in fact he participated and THANKED his opponent for it. It's already in the debate realm.

Oh wait. Everyone's already forgotten that. Seven days is about the length of the American memory. I forgot (hee hee).

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[Michele 1]

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Oh wait. Everyone's already forgotten that. Seven days is about the length of the American memory. I forgot (hee hee).

LOL, I agree, many have short memories.

But I also disagree in the context that this occurred. Cheney is her father, and can speak to his children (both daughters), but it really is lowclass to talk about someone else's children.

I have no idea what anyone gained or lost, but that's my opinion. I understand yours, but don't agree with it. And that's all right, isn't it?

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[Tf15 0]

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Oh wait. Everyone's already forgotten that. Seven days is about the length of the American memory. I forgot (hee hee).

LOL, I agree, many have short memories.

But I also disagree in the context that this occurred. Cheney is her father, and can speak to his children (both daughters), but it really is lowclass to talk about someone else's children.

I have no idea what anyone gained or lost, but that's my opinion. I understand yours, but don't agree with it. And that's all right, isn't it?

Ciels-
Michele

I thought he (Cheney) was talking to the American people during the debate. And Lynne Cheney talked about it on NPR with Cokie Roberts. And Alan Keyes (Republican) talked about it at the RNC without any righteous "indignation" from the right.

Looks a little like a double standard to me.

Three times is enemy action

[Dagny 0]

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Cheney talked openly about it in the VP debate.

Actually, no, he didn't. Edwards talked about it openly and Cheney thanked him for the comment, but Cheney never brought up his daughter's sexual orientation.

Take me, I am the drug; take me, I am hallucinogenic.
-Salvador Dali

[Michele 1]

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I thought he (Cheney) was talking to the American people during the debate.

As to Cheney's comment at the VP debate about his daughter, it was simply this:
The VP debate transcripts

"IFILL: Mr. Vice President, you have 90 seconds.

CHENEY: Well, Gwen, let me simply thank the senator for the kind words he said about my family and our daughter.

I appreciate that very much.

IFILL: That's it?

CHENEY: That's it."

(The comment Edwards made that Cheney said thanks for was this:
"Now, as to this question, let me say first that I think the vice president and his wife love their daughter. I think they love her very much. And you can't have anything but respect for the fact that they're willing to talk about the fact that they have a gay daughter, the fact that they embrace her. It's a wonderful thing. And there are millions of parents like that who love their children, who want their children to be happy.")

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And Lynne Cheney talked about it on NPR with Cokie Roberts.

Dunno about NPR; as far as I can find it was an ABC show, in 2000.
Salon article about Lynn Cheney and Cokie Roberts...in pertinent part...

August 01, 2000 | DENVER -- Lynne Cheney's discomfort with the media's interest in her lesbian daughter Mary, televised nationally over the weekend, threatens to ignite the first firestorm of the so-far superbly scripted Republican convention.

On Sunday, when ABC's Cokie Roberts started to ask the GOP vice presidential nominee's wife about having a daughter who has "declared she's openly gay," an irate Lynne Cheney shot back: "Mary has never declared such a thing." Cheney then blasted the media for its interest in the story, and chided Roberts: "I'm surprised, Cokie, that even you would want to bring it up on this program."

Now, while I admit that wasn't the nicest thing for Mrs. Cheney to say, it certainly outlines her position about public discussion regarding her daughter.

Between both Mr. and Mrs. Cheney, it seems clear that they really don't talk about her a lot in the context of her sexuality. They most certainly have not used her as a campaign "tool," and for Kerry/Edwards to do so is again, in my opinion, low class.

As to Alan Keys, he's an asshat, pure and simple. I think he hasn't got more than 4 brain cells. And rarely do they work in concert.

I would've been righteously indignant had I known he'd said anything, but he's less than a flea fart on my radar, so I wasn't aware of it.

It seems that Elizabeth, Mary's sister, has the same respect for her sister's choice as that shown by her parents...in other words, it's not for public consumption. Elizabeth's response to Keyes can be found here (but excerpted for your reading pleasure...)

In an interview with CNN, Mary Cheney's sister, Elizabeth, responded to Keyes' remarks by saying, "I'm not going to dignify it with a comment."

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Looks a little like a double standard to me.

Double standard how?

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[likearock 1]

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Cheney talked openly about it in the VP debate.

Actually, no, he didn't. Edwards talked about it openly and Cheney thanked him for the comment, but Cheney never brought up his daughter's sexual orientation.

I seem to remember that Cheney did publicly bring up the issue of his daughter's orientation just before the Republican convention. Anybody else remember that?

Wayne

[likearock 1]

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Cheney talked openly about it in the VP debate.

Actually, no, he didn't. Edwards talked about it openly and Cheney thanked him for the comment, but Cheney never brought up his daughter's sexual orientation.

I seem to remember that Cheney did publicly bring up the issue of his daughter's orientation just before the Republican convention. Anybody else remember that?

Wayne

Found it: http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20040824-115323-6433r.htm

Cheney sidesteps marriage debate

By Joseph Curl
THE WASHINGTON TIMES

Vice President Dick Cheney said yesterday that homosexual couples should have equal freedom under the law and reiterated his 2000 campaign stance that states should have the right to decide what constitutes marriage.
While Mr. Cheney did not unequivocally support President Bush's call for a constitutional amendment banning homosexual "marriage," he expressed support for the president's prerogative to set policy.
"My own preference is as I've stated. But the president makes basic policy for the administration. And he's made it clear that he does, in fact, support a constitutional amendment on this issue," the vice president said in response to a question about his stand on homosexual "marriage" during a town hall meeting in Davenport, Iowa.
Mr. Cheney said Mr. Bush was prompted to call for the constitutional amendment banning homosexual "marriage" after several judicial rulings sanctioned the practice, including a landmark ruling by the Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court.
"I think his perception was that the courts, in effect, were beginning to change — without allowing the people to be involved, without their being part of the political process — that the courts, in that particular case, the state court in Massachusetts, were making the judgment or the decision for the entire country.
"And he disagreed with that. So where we're at this point is, he has come out in support of a federal constitutional amendment," Mr. Cheney said.
Mr. Cheney's comments are not at odds with the president's position, according to one of his spokesmen.
"The vice president supports the president's right to set policy and make those decisions," Anne Womack said. "The vice president has been very clear and consistent on this issue."
But she would not say the vice president supports the constitutional amendment itself.
During the 2000 campaign, vice-presidential candidate Cheney took the position that states should decide legal issues about personal relationships and that Americans should be free to enter relationships of their choosing.
Yesterday's response prompted reports that the vice president had broken with the president over the issue of homosexual "marriage."
In his answer, Mr. Cheney noted that he and his wife "have a gay daughter, so it's an issue that our family is very familiar with."
"With respect to the question of relationships, my general view is that freedom means freedom for everyone. People ought to be able to free — ought to be free to enter into any kind of relationship they want to. The question that comes up with respect to the issue of marriage is what kind of official sanction, or approval, is going to be granted by government, if you will, to particular relationships."
The Cheneys have two daughters, both of whom work on the campaign. Mary Cheney, who is homosexual, is director of vice-presidential operations for the Bush-Cheney re-election campaign. She held a public role as her father's assistant in the 2000 campaign and helped the GOP recruit homosexual voters during the 2002 midterm elections.
While Mr. Cheney acknowledged that there were not enough votes on Capitol Hill to pass the proposed constitutional amendment banning homosexual "marriage," he said such a move may be unnecessary after all.
"There is on the books the federal statute Defense of Marriage Act passed in 1996, and to date it has not been successfully challenged in the courts, and that may be sufficient to resolve the issue," he said.
The Democratic candidates, Sens. John Kerry of Massachusetts and John Edwards of North Carolina, opposed the amendment, but they also oppose homosexual "marriage," although they defend a homosexual couple's rights to the same legal protections as those conferred in marriage.
Mr. Cheney, kicking off three days of campaigning, will take a bus tour through the swing state of Pennsylvania.

[penniless 0]

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Cheney talked openly about it in the VP debate.

Actually, no, he didn't. Edwards talked about it openly and Cheney thanked him for the comment, but Cheney never brought up his daughter's sexual orientation.

I seem to remember that Cheney did publicly bring up the issue of his daughter's orientation just before the Republican convention. Anybody else remember that?

Wayne

The Kennedy kids, Johnson's daughter, Nixon's daughter, Amy Carter, Maureen and Ron Reagan, Chelsea Clinton were all subject to intense media scrutiny. Alexandra Kerry had her boobs shown around the world.

If you don't want your family in the spotlight, you shouldn't run for high office.

[Tf15 0]

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if you are talkling about Alan Keyes and his comments... well, no one should even acknowledge him, especially the presidential candidates. He is a total wacko close-minded candidate who has absolutely no chance of winning. Why waste their time making an issue of what Keyes says when they don't like the issue to begin with and he is such a blight on the compassionate conservates that Bush/Cheney want to be recognized as?

Anyway, its politics. It doesn't make sense and both sides are hypocritical. Thats the name of the game.

How can you dismiss Keyes' statement? He is the official GOP candidate for the US Senate seat in Illinois, which means he was chosen by his party. He ran in the 2000 GOP presidential primaries.

He may be an embarrassment, but he's the GOP's own embarrassment.

Three times is enemy action

[likearock 1]

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I seem to remember that Cheney did publicly bring up the issue of his daughter's orientation just before the Republican convention. Anybody else remember that?

Wayne

The Kennedy kids, Johnson's daughter, Nixon's daughter, Amy Carter, Maureen and Ron Reagan, Chelsea Clinton were all subject to intense media scrutiny. Alexandra Kerry had her boobs shown around the world.

If you don't want your family in the spotlight, you shouldn't run for high office.

Agreed. But in this case the specific charge was that Kerry used the reference to Mary Cheney's orientation for political advantage. Which he did. However, from the Washington Times article above, it appears that Mr. Cheney did the same thing.

Wayne

[Treejumps 0]

*** "The few people reading these posts who have brain cells firing know what I mean."

That is what you said. It is pretty much the equavelent of saying "If you don't agree with me, you are stupid, unintelligent, or a moron".

Of course you chose to focus on the "mis-quate", rather than the substance of the argument. You spend great amounts of time pointing out the "techniques" used by those against your point of view, you ceraainly use enough of them yourself.

Your factual matter is exactly that, "your" factual matter as interpreted by you. As hard as it is for you to believe, the rest of the country may disagree with what you consider fact.

In fact, the rest of the country, or at least a significant majority seems to disagree with much of your discontent.

And don't forget, Your candidate would trade your concerns for a vote, just as quickly.

[narcimund 0]

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And don't forget, Your candidate would trade your concerns for a vote, just as quickly.

Oh? Who is my candidate?

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[narcimund 0]

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Of course you chose to focus on the "mis-quate", rather than the substance of the argument. You spend great amounts of time pointing out the "techniques" used by those against your point of view, you ceraainly use enough of them yourself.

Please find an example of me using the misdirecting technique I explained. I don't believe I do that (I would consider it dishonorable) but I'd love to have you show me if I have.

Edited to add: On second reading I see that I missed an important point: You didn't "misquote" me. You blatantly fabricated a falsified quote not a single word of which was mine. Or is this an example of how you feel facts are open for interpretation? That's like dreaming about someone then blaming them for what happened in the dream. But then again, maybe that logic makes sense to you.

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Your factual matter is exactly that, "your" factual matter as interpreted by you. As hard as it is for you to believe, the rest of the country may disagree with what you consider fact.

Again, please find an example. Most of the facts I've argued recently have been complete nonsense about gay people written by you and other people who don't have any idea what they're talking about. Usually you and your type ignorantly announce a bullshit stereotype but won't back it up when you're challenged by knowledgable people.

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In fact, the rest of the country, or at least a significant majority seems to disagree with much of your discontent.

And most non-jumpers disagree with the facts of skydiving and base jumping. The significant majority of the country know that parachutes are all round, humans can't breath in freefall, that we go back UP when the parachute opens, and that the landing is like jumping off a one story building. Does that make it true?

No. Factual matters are not subject to "interpretation". You're confusing facts with opinions. Think more carefully, please.

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[Dagny 0]

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Usually you and your type ignorantly announce a bullshit stereotype

Oh, the irony in that statement...

Take me, I am the drug; take me, I am hallucinogenic.
-Salvador Dali

[narcimund 0]

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Usually you and your type ignorantly announce a bullshit stereotype

Oh, the irony in that statement...

No irony. The definition of "your type" in that sentence is "people who announce bullshit stereotypes". It's no more stereotyping than saying "all tall people are tall".

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[mardigrasbob 0]

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Alexandra Kerry had her boobs shown around the world

Yes!!!!!!!!!!!





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[billvon 2,435]

> Usually you and your type ignorantly announce a bullshit stereotype
> but won't back it up when you're challenged by knowledgable people.

Cut it out, Narcimund.

[tunaplanet 0]

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you and your type ignorantly announce a bullshit stereotype but won't back it up when you're challenged by knowledgable people.

Maybe he will back it up when he's challenged by someone knowledgable.

Forty-two

[rwieder 0]

if vice president cheney and his wife wouldn't have went on national television and announced the fact that their daughter was gay to the entire free world, i would've had no idea his daughter was gay/lesbian or what ever the proper termonology is. point being, they have no one to blame but themselves for the exploitation of their daughter's "good name" imho i don't care about anyone's sexual preference, race, color, creed etc...i don't base my opinion of judgement on things of that nature. so those that do are being "NARROW MINDED" the only reason the cheney's made the announcement was to keep the Kerry camp from "running with it" there are a lot of issues on the table this upcoming election, same sex marraiges, abortion, stem cell research etc...each candidate has their own views on each. personally, i'm in favor of all of the aforementioned, after all we are all about "being free" right?

in either event, i say we take John Kerry out behind the hanger and kick the shit out of him!

this whole affair is blown way out of porportion. all it amounts to is cheney(s) et al: trying to get sympathy.

-Richard-
"You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall"

[markd_nscr986 0]

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in either event, i say we take John Kerry out behind the hanger and kick the shit out of him!

Only problem with that,there wouldnt be anything left of him

Marc SCR 6046 SCS 3004

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[penniless 0]

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in either event, i say we take John Kerry out behind the hanger and kick the shit out of him!

Only problem with that,there wouldnt be anything left of him

Let us not forget that it was Dick Cheney, in direct contradiction to George Bush’s policy on gays and lesbians, who first came out and discussed his daughter's sexuality publicly while campaigning for George Bush. Lynne and Mary Cheney have both publicly discussed the fact that Mary is a lesbian while campaigning this year. They opened the door, and John Kerry had every right to comment on this in the context that he did.

Mary Cheney was manager of Coors’s corporate relations for the gay and lesbian market, and has done public bar tours to promote Coors's beer to that market. She currently is paid a six figure salary to work on the Bush / Cheney Campaign. She's a highly paid member of the Bush Election Campaign and a fair target for comments.

If you recall it was George Bush who earlier this year said that he wanted to pass a constitutional amendment banning gay and lesbian marriage, not John Kerry. You may also recall that in an attempt to get the gay and lesbian vote it was Dick Cheney who first publicly discussed that his daughter Mary is a lesbian while campaigning. George Bush, Dick Cheney, Lynne Cheney, and Mary Cheney can’t have it both ways. If they want to use Mary Cheney as a prop in an attempt to gain support from gay and lesbian voters, then Kerry has a right to discuss her sexual preference in the limited capacity in which he did.

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[narcimund 0]

Apparently they CAN have it both ways. They use their family members for political gain then bitch at the opponents when it occurs to them to do so.

And look at all the sheep. They say Baaaah! Baaah! Just like they're supposed to!

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[Keith 0]

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Can I, Keith? Please??? Pretty please, with sugar on top??? I promise to be gentle.

Yes you can spank me but you have to give up on the gentle nonsense. I want to Feel how naughty I've been

Keith

Don't Fuck with me Keith - J. Mandeville

[Shotgun 1]

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Yes you can spank me but you have to give up on the gentle nonsense. I want to Feel how naughty I've been

Well, ok... I was lying about being gentle anyway.

I'll stick the paddle in my bag for the next time I'm at the dz...

[jerryzflies 0]

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in either event, i say we take John Kerry out behind the hanger and kick the shit out of him!

Only problem with that,there wouldnt be anything left of him

Let us not forget that it was Dick Cheney, in direct contradiction to George Bush’s policy on gays and lesbians, who first came out and discussed his daughter's sexuality publicly while campaigning for George Bush. Lynne and Mary Cheney have both publicly discussed the fact that Mary is a lesbian while campaigning this year. They opened the door, and John Kerry had every right to comment on this in the context that he did.

Mary Cheney was manager of Coors’s corporate relations for the gay and lesbian market, and has done public bar tours to promote Coors's beer to that market. She currently is paid a six figure salary to work on the Bush / Cheney Campaign. She's a highly paid member of the Bush Election Campaign and a fair target for comments.

If you recall it was George Bush who earlier this year said that he wanted to pass a constitutional amendment banning gay and lesbian marriage, not John Kerry. You may also recall that in an attempt to get the gay and lesbian vote it was Dick Cheney who first publicly discussed that his daughter Mary is a lesbian while campaigning. George Bush, Dick Cheney, Lynne Cheney, and Mary Cheney can’t have it both ways. If they want to use Mary Cheney as a prop in an attempt to gain support from gay and lesbian voters, then Kerry has a right to discuss her sexual preference in the limited capacity in which he did.

Exactly right. If you open the door, don't whine if someone comes through.

If you can't fix it with a hammer, the problem's electrical.

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