Democrat = secular, Republican = religious

[sunman 0]

A friend and I were talking about how it seems like most religious people (your typical churchgoer) will be voting for Bush, whereas all non-religious people that I know will be voting for Kerry. The next day on Larry King Live at the RNC the subject comes up and 5 different guests all say the the dividing line between the parties is a viewpoint that is either religious or secular. I know this is not exactly breaking news, people have been talking about this for years, but it seems to be very true, especially with GWB. I myself used to be a card carrying member of the religious right. I voted for bush in 2000. But over the years I've grown up and realized that religion is bullshit, and now I also think that Bush is full of the same bullshit, and I'm voting for Kerry. I jumped two different ships at the same time, the religious and the republican. But maybe they are the same ship. Are they? Are there any athiests or truly non-religious people out there voting for Bush?

[Duckwater 0]

Im sooo undecided -

Financially - I want Bush. I am a Christian but I think the Religious Right (Christian Coalition) is almost Naziish in their zeal to make everyone believe in their beliefs and morals. That is what I can't stand about the Republican Party or Church.


Kerry - Is that really the best the Democrats had???? They are as tied into big business as the Republicans. I see no real difference and I think that him and Bush ahve both lied through their teeth. I do want stem cell research.

In my heart I want Ralph Nader - He is the only one I truly trust. Logically, he would be our best president and make REAL changes that would improve our lives. Unfortunately, he is a little on the odd side sometimes and he will never win so.....

You know who I REALLY would vote for...
Chris Rock.....Seriously. Hes smarter than you think.

[TomAiello 25]

Me = Atheist = Republican.

Actually, I'm more Libertarian than Republican.

I do know plenty of atheists who vote republican, though. And plenty of religious folks who vote democrat.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[Duckwater 0]

I think it takes a lot of faith to be an atheist. To me, a bug shaped like a leaf and the duck billed playtupus didn't just happen....Something created it....and that something had a few beers while in the shop sometimes.....

Kinda like the South Park Episode where the Sea Monkeys think Cartman is God

[jazzjumper 0]

I'm not sure I buy your argument about your switch of candidates. If it was because religion is bullshit and GWB is religious, so is Kerry (at least if you believe him when he speaks about it.) You can find Kerry flipping and flopping a lot more, esp on issues of Judeo-Christian morals. So then who is full of BS?

Religion is what it is, either you have faith to something of this nature or not. To lump the two together with no more than what you've state as your argument...well, it sounds like a troll frankly. But, that is just my opinion.

No matter how good she looks, someone, somewhere is
sick of her shit!

[christelsabine 1]

Quote

.....(your typical churchgoer) will be voting for Bush, whereas all non-religious people that I know will be voting for Kerry.

That is an interesting point which I do not consider as "trolling" (right word ?), as it's been discusssed here in my world several times: The close combination (showed by) Bush to the Church (itself). How sincere is that? I personally have my doubts on that somehow as on me, it has a certain unreal effect. Like a "show" for the body of electors

Kerry is not using this tool. (I didn't see or probably missed it)

Watching Bush's efforts on that reminds me on our "black" Christian Bavarian premier. Doing the same for catching voters by presenting a healthy, clean washed and deeply believing family, friends, world....

In my eyes: only demonstrating something
(And after church, folks are entering the next village pub to discuss important things of the world with some litres of Bavarian strong beer ) Surely, they will hang me like Tom Dooley upon reading that

In conclusion: Atheists or non-religious people in my opinion would not mainly vote for Bush. The same transferred to Germany would mean: they will not go for Stoiber (the white poodle )

OK, it's your election time, so decide on that with or w/o the church.

Christel

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

Quote

Are there any athiests or truly non-religious people out there voting for Bush?

You could search out my posts -- I loathe religion, and am an atheist -- and I will be voting for Bush rather than Kerry. (I've never sided with what I view to be the mealy-mouthed, flaccid-spined Democrats anyway.) The reason: gun control. I loathe gun control, as a means of stripping the people of power, as much as I loathe religion. Kerry is 100% the darling of the gun-control crowd, even as he tries to paint himself as the duck-hunter's friend (the 2nd Amendment is not about duck hunting).

If you want to keep the right to keep and bear arms, you do not vote for Democrats. It's that simple.

-

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[jimbarry 0]

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a bug shaped like a leaf and the duck billed playtupus didn't just happen....Something created it....

Some believe some 'thing', some believe some 'one', and some believe chemistry, energy, and several hundred million, if not a billion or so years of natural selection. Darwin's On the Origin of Species offers very logical explanations for these things.

That said, to each his/her own. Isn't freedom great?

[Duckwater 0]

Dude, they got that Darwin book in Cliff Notes. Some Thing, One or the Almighty gave me the attention span of Gary Buesy.

[jimbarry 0]

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Dude, they got that Darwin book in Cliff Notes. Some Thing, One or the Almighty gave me the attention span of Gary Buesy.

lol. i'm with ya there. and for those (ie. me) with even less attention span than that, there's always PBS and Discovery channel.

Edited to add: almost forgot. one more here (ie. me) republican atheist for bush. but yes, the christian right drives me nuts sometimes too. just IMO. taking nothing away from other's beliefs here.

[gmanpilot 0]

I think it's hard to make a direct voter connection. That being said, I don't thinks Bush merely identifies with the religious right, he is the religious right.

I'm not voting for wither of them, I would rather use my vote to make a small step toward abolishing the two party system.

_________________________________________
-There's always free cheese in a mouse trap.

[peregrinerose 0]

I don't like either candidate, but leaning toward Bush. I loathe organized religion, neutral toward whether there is a God or not, if I had to pick a philosophy of life, Buddhism lies most in line with my perception of the world around me and how I try to live.

What makes me truly sick are the people who vote on one issue, abortion. If you are for abortion rights, they won't vote for you, if you are pro life, they vote for you. Living in an extremely Christian part of the country, I see it a lot, and it sickens me. Realistically, that's not going to change much and there are far greater issues at stake.

I hate the 2 party system, I think Bush doesn't think things through all that well, I think Kerry is inflating his Vietnam record and running almost completely on that instead of actually taking a stance on anything concretely. I'd vote for Homer Simpson before either of them if he was on the ballot.

Jen

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[SpeedRacer 1]

I am a Christian, and I'm voting for Kerry. Personally, I think religion & politics should be kept seperate. There will be those who disagree with me of course.

As peregrinerose pointed out, there are a lot of people out there who are so fixated on one issue that they try to depict everything as black & white, ie : "Well, if you're a true Christian, you MUST vote for X, because of his position on issue Y!" So they try to equate the salvation of your soul based on how you vote. They would have all Christians in lockstep on every issue if they could. Frickin' christian taliban.

some people over-focus for other reasons besides religion as well.

well, in my opinion, the world isn't that simple. there are lots of different issues to consider when voting.

Speed Racer
--------------------------------------------------

[bobsled92 0]

Christian
Democrat (just changed after 19 Rep. years)

From what I have seen in the work place of USA...
The more secure our jobs are the LESS people will need firepower in the "former" workplace.
(Bush=love NAFTA & outsourcing)
I do find the fellow parishoners follow Rep. blindly.
I changed because I need to believe in a future.

_______________________________
If I could be a Super Hero,
I chose to be: "GRANT-A-CLAUS". and work 365 days a Year.
http://www.hangout.no/speednews/

[sunman 0]

Quote

I'm not sure I buy your argument about your switch of candidates. If it was because religion is bullshit and GWB is religious, so is Kerry (at least if you believe him when he speaks about it.) You can find Kerry flipping and flopping a lot more, esp on issues of Judeo-Christian morals. So then who is full of BS?

I didn't switch candidates because of a switch in my religious views, although I think the two are related. Religion requires you to believe something that just isn't true. You have to believe the people that wrote the bible and the early church fathers who maintained the manuscripts. You have to believe your pastor and sunday school teacher. And I did believe, because everybody around me did. This brainwashing that occured from as early as I can remember was the perfect fertile soil for any person in power to be able to fool me as well. It just so happens that the man in power is W, and he claims to be a christian. As a christian, I loved this president, and I believed all his crap about Saddam Hussein and WMD's. I started disliking Bush after the truth about Iraq emerged. His views on gay marriage pissed me off too, even as a christian. I also happened to read some books about christianity that opened my eyes, and the hundreds of nagging doubts were finally answered simply: Correct. As somebody whose only religion is science and whose only god is the universe, John Kerry is much more my man that W. I believe we need to evolve away from the old way of religion, war, hatred, bigotry, and homophobia. Kerry may be a Catholic, but W is a fundamentalist, and believe me, a fundamentalist in the white house is a lot scarier than a catholic in the white house. Although he doesn't support gay marriage, Kerry will probably not have an anti-homosexual agenda like W. He will also allow stem cell research which will be the salvation of millions of people. It sickens me that the religious right thinks a few cells is a human life. That concept isn't even biblical, let alone logical.

Quote

Religion is what it is, either you have faith to something of this nature or not. To lump the two together with no more than what you've state as your argument...well, it sounds like a troll frankly. But, that is just my opinion.

Yeah, it's a troll, but I'm entitled to one, right?

[sunman 0]

Quote

In my heart I want Ralph Nader - He is the only one I truly trust. Logically, he would be our best president and make REAL changes that would improve our lives. Unfortunately, he is a little on the odd side sometimes and he will never win so.....

I agree. I would vote Nader on principle alone, but ousting W is more important to me, so I will vote Kerry.

[sunman 0]

That's interesting that there are a few athiest republicans out there. I have one question for you though. Bush is a fundamentalist. He truly believes the following:

Evolution does not occur.

Homosexuality is a sin, an abomination, and an activity HATED by god.

One cell=human life=no cures for scores of diseases.

Muslims will go to hell when the die, because they don't believe in Jesus and are therefore enemies of God.

Jesus is going to come back and take all the christians off the earth in the rapture of the church, and afterwards, the world will be DESTROYED.

My question is this: How can you vote for this man who is so clearly not even remotely in touch with reality?

[Michele 1]

Frankly, I think in some sectors, religion follows politics closely; but it could be argued that it's more a familial thing rather than a religious thing.

I don't however, find that with the majority of those who consider themselves religious.

I didn't vote because imho your options use too broad a brush, I think.

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[TomAiello 25]

Quote

How can you vote for this man...?

I prefer him to the alternative.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[mnealtx 0]

NAFTA came in in 1994...during a Democratic administration.

"Downsizing" also got it's start during the 90's and evolved into the "outsourcing" of today.

To date, I've seen reports both good and bad on the outsourcing issue. I suppose it all depends on what spin the site you're reading puts on it.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[boudy 0]

As Michele noted, poll choices do not necessarily reflect reality in the body politic

Personally, regarding our government, most people I know pray for a secular future

[markd_nscr986 0]

Neither Christian(Buddhist) or Conservative (for the most part,except on a few issues).......Kerry doesn't have a clue......although I'm not a big fan of GWB's either......it truly is the lesser of 2 evils or IMHO,who will do the least amount of damage.

Marc SCR 6046 SCS 3004

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

Quote

I didn't switch candidates because of a switch in my religious views, although I think the two are related. Religion requires you to believe something that just isn't true. You have to believe the people that wrote the bible and the early church fathers who maintained the manuscripts. You have to believe your pastor and sunday school teacher. And I did believe, because everybody around me did. This brainwashing that occured from as early as I can remember was the perfect fertile soil for any person in power to be able to fool me as well. It just so happens that the man in power is W, and he claims to be a christian. As a christian, I loved this president, and I believed all his crap about Saddam Hussein and WMD's. I started disliking Bush after the truth about Iraq emerged. His views on gay marriage pissed me off too, even as a christian. I also happened to read some books about christianity that opened my eyes, and the hundreds of nagging doubts were finally answered simply: Correct. As somebody whose only religion is science and whose only god is the universe, John Kerry is much more my man that W. I believe we need to evolve away from the old way of religion, war, hatred, bigotry, and homophobia. Kerry may be a Catholic, but W is a fundamentalist, and believe me, a fundamentalist in the white house is a lot scarier than a catholic in the white house. Although he doesn't support gay marriage, Kerry will probably not have an anti-homosexual agenda like W. He will also allow stem cell research which will be the salvation of millions of people. It sickens me that the religious right thinks a few cells is a human life. That concept isn't even biblical, let alone logical.

I agree with all of this, essentially, except for the part where you apparently believe that it is up to the president, somehow, to "allow" stem cell research. The president does not make the laws. If stem cell research is forbidden, it is because of Congress, not the president, so get on the letter writing campaign to them.

The thing I agree most with is where you say we need to move beyond this bullshit old archtype of letting religion instead of reason guide how we see the world, because all it is is divisive and hate-inspiring. People of one religion will always distrust and dislike people of other religions, even (and especially?) when their religion says to be "tolerant." If we all just thought of ourselves as human beings trying to exist and keep ourselves comfortable and safe and secure in a cold universe, we'd all coexist a lot more peacefully and happily and in cooperation with each other. I'm ready for that, and I'm an atheist. It's the religious people holding us back, and I'll stand by that assertion for a lonnng time.

Blue skies,
-

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[tbrown 26]

All depends on what you mean by "religious". Regardless of denomination or creed, I see it as two different types of religious. One is the "Pharisee" type, who like to go around pointing the finger at all the "sinners" (though any faith will tell you we are all sinners). They tend to stand more for thhe AUTHORITY of organized religion and tend to be bullies.


Then there's the kind who prefer not to showboat their faith, but to live it. They instill it in their children, they practice a loving, giving, and forgiving brand of religion. These people are just trying to struggle their way through life while finding and hopefully creating some hope for the people around them. They also tend to shun the organized Bible beaters because they've had quite enough of them.

Jesus had quite a lot to say about the High Priests and Pharisees & it wasn't very flattering.

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

Quote

Then there's the kind who prefer not to showboat their faith, but to live it. They instill it in their children, they practice a loving, giving, and forgiving brand of religion. These people are just trying to struggle their way through life while finding and hopefully creating some hope for the people around them. They also tend to shun the organized Bible beaters because they've had quite enough of them. Jesus had quite a lot to say about the High Priests and Pharisees & it wasn't very flattering.

Dude, spend a week consciously tracking how many of the people you meet you really feel are living a life of love and forgiveness. I think that's a load of shit. Almost NO ONE does it, even when they call themselves "Christian."

At least non-religious people get to live just like the religious people also live but don't have to be called hypocrites when they fail to live up to the commandments or the bible, since they never swore they would.

When people pick and choose which of the commandments to adhere to, they make a mockery out of their claim to be religious. You know what they call a person who picks and chooses the laws he lets himself be bound by? A criminal.

NO ONE is truly religious, if religious means they really work at living by the tenets of their religion. This may be in part because religions are so contradictory that you can't even figure out exactly what they would have you do! Let's see... are we supposed to kill homosexuals or not?

-

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"