Thats it, these fuckers need to die!

[PhillyKev 0]

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Question is out of those 25 million how many support the actions of the 200? I bet you would come to find that it is a surprisingly high number.

Just because someone doesnt pull the trigger it doesnt mean they arent guilty.

You've just successfully summed up a terrorists reasoning as to why civilian targets are ok.

[Kennedy 0]

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If you are going to judge a large population based on the acts of a few, then you may as well judge the United States based on the acts of our white supremicists, or our inner city gangsta's.

There is still a significant problem with racism going both ways in the US. White supremacists are disgusting, but not alone.

It's even worse with your "IC ganstas" example. Not only is that looked up to, and emulated, even respected outside the city limits (by people with obviously fucked up heads), but there is an entire segment of the music industry promoting it!

It's hard for any gropu to surface without SOME support in the larger population. Of course, that is always easier when huge chuncks of the population are uneducated, fully indoctrinated fools.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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(Not replying to anyone in particular)

Remember that Iraq is a country of 25 million people. The actions of any 200 people do not represent the rest.

People who are trying to restore stability to Iraq are probably as distressed as outsiders when viewing these events.

Well, just like when there is a shooting in an inner-city neighborhood and the police count on those in the vicinity to turn over the offenders, it is reasonable for us to expect those 25,000,000 people to turn over the 200 or so who are committing these atrocities. If they won't help us get at them, some of those 250M are gonna have to die in a more broadly-scattered effort to get at the evildoers. Hey, man, that's the breaks if you won't help us get at the real bad people. Don't bitch if we have to send in a battalion instead of a squad because you didn't help us narrow down who was doing this shit.

-

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[Guest]

From James F. Dunnigan's Strategy Page:

IRAQ: Why Foreign Workers Ignore the Death Threats

September 1, 2004: Former Iraqi Governing Council member Ahmad Chalabi survived an assassination attempt. Chalabi, an Iraqi exile who developed connections in the Pentagon, is now accused of supplying Iran with American secrets, and of corruption in Iraq. His main enemies are former Saddam supporters, although many Shia don't care for him either. To most Iraqis, Chalabi is an example of Iraqi exiles who came home to steal.

A radical Sunni Arab group, an offshoot of al Qaeda, released a video of the murder of twelve Nepalese civilian workers. The men had been seized twelve days ago and their kidnappers didn't quite know what to do with them. Nepal has no troops in Iraq, and is preoccupied with a communist rebellion at home. But oil rich Arab nations employ millions of poor workers from South Asia. Non Moslems are often preferred, as they are less likely to be involved with radical Islamic groups. The murdered Nepalese were Buddhists. The foreign workers in the region send home over $25 billion a year, and the risk of getting killed by terrorists hasn't stopped the flow of job seekers. The number of terrorist attacks, for example, is far below the number of deaths in road accidents. To an impoverished South Asian, the math is still very appealing. There have been some disruptions when some countries, like the Philippines, ordered it's civilians out of Iraq, but back home, the Philippines is under popular pressure to lift this ban. Too many Filipinos depend on those jobs.

Why hire so many foreigners when there is so much unemployment in the Persian Gulf? Mostly, it's the availability of oil money, politics, and a poor work ethic. Unlike many other parts of the world, Arab men would often prefer unemployment to taking a job they consider beneath them. In Iraq, there's also the security problem. It's safer to bring in foreigners to work at American bases, or foreign companies, than it is to screen Iraqis to do the work. There's also a lot of menial jobs that Iraqis shun. Attitudes are changing, as the population, and unemployment rate, in the Persian Gulf goes up. Oil income has not been able to keep up, and Arab men (women have few job opportunities) are now starting to take less preferable jobs (involving more physical labor and less status) in order to preserve the lifestyle they have become accustomed to.

August 31, 2004: Muqtada al Sadr, apparently taking note of how thousands of his followers had been killed fighting coalition troops since April, the unpopularity of his gunmen when they are alive, and his own close calls with smart bombs, has called for all his armed followers to lay down they weapons. Sadr wants to form a political party and try this radical new idea (for Iraq) of contending for power without using guns. It also appears that Grand Ayatollah Ali Husseini al Sistani, who had long kept quiet about Sadr, had sharply criticized Sadr. This does not go down well among most Shias, as Sistani is well respected and Sadr is not.

[Dazzle 0]

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The real trick is to avoid wiping the good guys off the face of the earth alongside the bad guys.
When we can't make that basic distinction, we need to be careful, lest we become the things we hate the most.

Good intel coupled with highly trained Special Ops who understand and are capable of precise and discriminating warfare. We have the tools.

How many failures of this intel would you be willing to accept leading to the "wiping off the face of the earth" people who were not guilty?

Equally since when was it acceptable to have judge, jury and execution without any sort of defence.

It wouldn't take many innocents to be missidentified and killed before you'd be worse than the terrorists.

Courts and juries developed to protect rights of those who are innocent until their guilt is proven. Evidence shown in public rather than acquired and acted on in secret.

Interegation / confessions have always been a bad way to get intelligence anyhow. Look how many miscarriages of justices have occurred in the past (I'm thinking of the UK dealing with the IRA here in another "war on terrorism") Fortunately for some of those we didn't have a death penalty, Guildford 4 anyone!

[Duckwater 0]

Dude,,warn people to turn down the sound before watching that Thats why I almost barfed....actually I wish I hadnt watched it at all and I turned it off like a minute in......How could someone ever do that? Pure Evil.....That site makes rotten.com look wholesome....

[pajarito 0]

There’s always a “Sponge Bob” (By the way, I like Sponge Bob.) that rises to the defense of assholes like this. That’s not directed at you by the way. Just making a general observation. Did you see the same video I saw? Does it not infuriate you? Maybe I just see it from a different perspective. I see it from the eyes of someone who’s been in harms way with the possibility of being captured and treated just like that guy who got his head cut off. Those that can’t see themselves in that situation but merely watch it on TV and are separated from the reality of it probably don’t get quite as pissed off.

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How many failures of this intel would you be willing to accept leading to the "wiping off the face of the earth" people who were not guilty?

How many occurrences like this are you willing to take on the chin before military action is taken against these assholes in the same brutal fashion as they’ve shown us? I’m not saying that we should cut off their heads like they did in the same manner as one would cut the head off a fish. I’m just saying maybe a sniper bullet to the head and chest. That’s very humane in my opinion based on their actions. They’d be getting off easy.

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Equally since when was it acceptable to have judge, jury and execution without any sort of defence.

Attacking the enemy in war and killing them is not the same thing as arresting someone off the street for armed robbery, for example. What do you suggest? Send the local Iraqi police squad after them in order to arrest them and, by all means, make sure their rights are protected and that they receive due process? Hello….reality check…check one…check one two…

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It wouldn't take many innocents to be missidentified and killed before you'd be worse than the terrorists.

That’s right…we’re the terrorists now…

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Courts and juries developed to protect rights of those who are innocent until their guilt is proven. Evidence shown in public rather than acquired and acted on in secret.

A gross misunderstanding of the elements of unconventional war. I don’t think we’re talking about the same thing.

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Interegation / confessions have always been a bad way to get intelligence anyhow. Look how many miscarriages of justices have occurred in the past (I'm thinking of the UK dealing with the IRA here in another "war on terrorism") Fortunately for some of those we didn't have a death penalty, Guildford 4 anyone!

How would you know? Have you ever worked in interrogation? Merely looking at it from a results standpoint and not a moral one, every person has his/her breaking point and, given time with an adequate amount of coercion, will tell you everything they know. I’m not saying that there shouldn’t be limitations in place. I’m just saying that I don’t believe what you just said is altogether true in reference to interrogation being a bad way to get intelligence. What do you suggest? We don’t interrogate?

[rhino 0]

I agree with the glass parking lot thing. Fuck them all.

Rhino

[rhino 0]

That was pretty damned sick. Those fucking cowards won't even take their masks off.

Nuke them!

[Dazzle 0]

My post wasn't directed to what to do about these people in particular more about the feeling that we should do something irrespective of whether the people we wipe out actually are guilty of anything. I would suggest that an innocent iraqi (by whom I mean someone who has been mistakenly identified rather than anyone involved with this) who was killed to have as many rights (if not nore) than someone who has gone to that country.

An innocent iraqi humanely killed is just as dead as an innocent foreigner killed by the terrorists. If you don't think "wiping off the face of the earth" (the simplistic comment that caused me to respond) equates you as terrorist then we disagree (not equal I'll agree but not so far apart.)

In interregation people quite often break down and tell you what you want to hear. It has happened many times in police questioning and lead to miscarriages of justice.

I have no idea of what should be done but America, in it's current war mentality, scares me.

[crozby 0]

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That was pretty damned sick. Those fucking cowards won't even take their masks off.

Ha ha ha!!!

Like you guys, who lets remind everyone, have killed more than 10,000 Iraqis, are O-fucking-K because at least when you did it you weren't wearing masks. And you were behind missile launchers, or in really big sneaky aeroplanes.

I never cease to be amazed at the different justifications you identify between your treatment of your enemy and your enemy's treatment of it's enemy.

"Ok, so we may have abused prisoners at Abu Grade, but at least we weren't wearing turbans whilst we did it".

Pray tell: Is it better to kill 10 people whilst wearing masks, or is it better to kill 10,000 people whilst wearing the uniform of the US military?

[funks 1]

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That was pretty damned sick. Those fucking cowards won't even take their masks off.

Ha ha ha!!!

Like you guys, who lets remind everyone, have killed more than 10,000 Iraqis, are O-fucking-K because at least when you did it you weren't wearing masks. And you were behind missile launchers, or in really big sneaky aeroplanes.

I never cease to be amazed at the different justifications you identify between your treatment of your enemy and your enemy's treatment of it's enemy.

"Ok, so we may have abused prisoners at Abu Grade, but at least we weren't wearing turbans whilst we did it".

Pray tell: Is it better to kill 10 people whilst wearing masks, or is it better to kill 10,000 people whilst wearing the uniform of the US military?

What a load of shit! Please show me one case of a US soldier purposely MURDERING an innocent person. There is a big difference between casualties of war and the execution of civilians.

[billvon 2,434]

>Please show me one case of a US soldier purposely MURDERING an
>innocent person.

Several Iraqi prisoners at Abu Ghraib were killed by US miltary and/or US security contractors employed by the military.

[funks 1]

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That was pretty damned sick. Those fucking cowards won't even take their masks off.

Ha ha ha!!!

Like you guys, who lets remind everyone, have killed more than 10,000 Iraqis, are O-fucking-K because at least when you did it you weren't wearing masks. And you were behind missile launchers, or in really big sneaky aeroplanes.

I never cease to be amazed at the different justifications you identify between your treatment of your enemy and your enemy's treatment of it's enemy.

"Ok, so we may have abused prisoners at Abu Grade, but at least we weren't wearing turbans whilst we did it".

Pray tell: Is it better to kill 10 people whilst wearing masks, or is it better to kill 10,000 people whilst wearing the uniform of the US military?

One other thing, the civilians executed in those videos should have been so lucky to only have had to deal with naked pictures being taken of them and public humiliation.

Plus, whatever abuse did take place, our country is bringing those guilty up on charges. What the fuck has the countrys govt of those that are guilty of these executions done to bring them to justice? Absolutely nothing

[nacmacfeegle 0]

Bagram Air Base in Afghanistan..
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/3621056.stm

--------------------

He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[nacmacfeegle 0]

"What the fuck has the countrys govt of those that are guilty of these executions done to bring them to justice? Absolutely nothing"

You talking about the govt of Iraq?

--------------------

He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[kallend 1,648]

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That was pretty damned sick. Those fucking cowards won't even take their masks off.

Ha ha ha!!!

Like you guys, who lets remind everyone, have killed more than 10,000 Iraqis, are O-fucking-K because at least when you did it you weren't wearing masks. And you were behind missile launchers, or in really big sneaky aeroplanes.

I never cease to be amazed at the different justifications you identify between your treatment of your enemy and your enemy's treatment of it's enemy.

"Ok, so we may have abused prisoners at Abu Grade, but at least we weren't wearing turbans whilst we did it".

Pray tell: Is it better to kill 10 people whilst wearing masks, or is it better to kill 10,000 people whilst wearing the uniform of the US military?

What a load of shit! Please show me one case of a US soldier purposely MURDERING an innocent person. There is a big difference between casualties of war and the execution of civilians.

I wonder if the dead "casualties" and their bereaved families would have thought there is a difference.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[crozby 0]

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What a load of shit! Please show me one case of a US soldier purposely MURDERING an innocent person. There is a big difference between casualties of war and the execution of civilians.

If you believe that then you have some growing up to do.

When a relative of yours dies, it doesn't really matter that their death had the backing of some crack-pot Islamic group, or the backing of the United-fucking-States.

They may be cloth wearing sand-monkeys, but their pain at the loss of a loved one is at least as bad as the pain felt by the most worthless American when their even more worthless offspring eats dust.

They may not be American, or white, or think about stuff in quite the same way you do, but they still feel the raw animal searing agony that all of us feel when we lose a relative.

All 10,000+ of them.

[funks 1]

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What a load of shit! Please show me one case of a US soldier purposely MURDERING an innocent person. There is a big difference between casualties of war and the execution of civilians.

If you believe that then you have some growing up to do.

When a relative of yours dies, it doesn't really matter that their death had the backing of some crack-pot Islamic group, or the backing of the United-fucking-States.

They may be cloth wearing sand-monkeys, but their pain at the loss of a loved one is at least as bad as the pain felt by the most worthless American when their even more worthless offspring eats dust.

They may not be American, or white, or think about stuff in quite the same way you do, but they still feel the raw animal searing agony that all of us feel when we lose a relative.

All 10,000+ of them.

Why dont you reread my post, when did i ever say that their loss of a loved one means any less than ours?? I never once said that...and...You really dont think there is a difference between a casualty of war and a civilian that is purposely executed???

[funks 1]

Like you said, all people grieve the same. No matter what their country of origin is. I am quite sure our soldiers who took part in the killing of a prisoner will be dealt with accordingly. Did we broadcast the killing of a prisoner to the world? Did we post it to the internet so that their family could actually see their family member being butchered?

No matter how you slice it these people are sadistic fuckers that need to be wiped off the face of this planet. If that means taking innocent people with them then i could care less at this point.

I am sure the world mourned all the innocent japanese people that died because of Trumans actions. I am sure the world will also mourn the innocent people that would die today if the same action was taken, but if we really want to make the world a safer place (like bush claims he is doing) then we need to quit fucking around and just do it.

[billvon 2,434]

>if we really want to make the world a safer place (like bush claims he
>is doing) then we need to quit fucking around and just do it.

That's like killing your neighbor's son to make your neighborhood a safer place. Once you do that, you figure your neighbor will respect you a lot more? Or will you wake up one night to find your house on fire and the doors nailed shut?

If we really want to make the world a safer place, we do it with allies. Our allies (mainly Pakistan) have arrested/killed a lot more of Al Qaeda than we have; if we kill a bunch of Pakistanis with the fallout from our weapons, we will lose their support - heck, they will become the breeding grounds of Al Qaeda III. And the next terrorist attack on NYC will involve one of Pakistan's nukes. Is that what you want?

[PhillyKev 0]

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You really dont think there is a difference between a casualty of war and a civilian that is purposely executed???

Aren't you the one who said that civilians who sympathize with the enemy are just as guilty even though they didn't pull the trigger?

[funks 1]

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>if we really want to make the world a safer place (like bush claims he
>is doing) then we need to quit fucking around and just do it.

That's like killing your neighbor's son to make your neighborhood a safer place. Once you do that, you figure your neighbor will respect you a lot more? Or will you wake up one night to find your house on fire and the doors nailed shut?

If we really want to make the world a safer place, we do it with allies. Our allies (mainly Pakistan) have arrested/killed a lot more of Al Qaeda than we have; if we kill a bunch of Pakistanis with the fallout from our weapons, we will lose their support - heck, they will become the breeding grounds of Al Qaeda III. And the next terrorist attack on NYC will involve one of Pakistan's nukes. Is that what you want?

Exactly how do we see the world becoming a safer place by doing it with allies? What could we possibly do any different then we have been doing? This shit will continue to happen until a new approach is taken. All we are doing is stirring the pot at this point.

I am not some sicko out to see world annihilation. If there is another solution please tell me? Or shall we just sit around until these sick fuckers figure out how to build a bomb and blow it up in our country? We need to start being proactive instead of reactive.

I think another 9/11 is inevitable unless we unleash all fucking hell on these bastards.

[Frenchy68 0]

Nuke them!
***

Aaaaahhhhh! The famous "Nuke Them!" The corner stone of every healthy foreign policy.

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

[billvon 2,434]

>Exactly how do we see the world becoming a safer place by doing it with
>allies?

Because it is a fact that our allies have caught more Al Qaeda leaders than we have.

>What could we possibly do any different then we have been doing? This
> shit will continue to happen until a new approach is taken. All we are
> doing is stirring the pot at this point.

Agreed there. We need to stop stirring the pot and concentrate on defending ourselves. That means stopping the annual foreign wars abd our support of destabilizing regimes.

>I am not some sicko out to see world annihilation. If there is another
>solution please tell me?

A stronger military here at home. Better borders. Better security on rails and in port. Better satellite surveillance.

>I think another 9/11 is inevitable unless we unleash all fucking hell on
>these bastards.

Another 9/11 is certainly inevitable if we think that we can just kill everyone who opposes our policies. The world has ways of dealing with powerful killers.