Ahhhh.......whiiiiiners can't take what they dish out

[billvon 2,442]

>Equivalent? I think not.

Both produced with a clear political objective; both written by someone with an axe to grind. You are right that they are in different media, though.

[PhillyKev 0]

http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=Swift_Boat_Veterans_for_Truth

According to Media Matters for America the group's founder, John O'Neill, has been associated with the Nixon administration to counter protests against the war in Vietnam. [2]

SBVT contains many officers who praised Kerry's conduct during the Vietnam War. These include Division Commander Grant Hibbard, who wrote positive evaluations of Kerry, and Commander George Elliott, who submitted Kerry for a Silver Star. By contrast, none of the men who directly served under Kerry in his swift boat belong to SBVT and they actively campaign on behalf of Kerry's presidential bid.

its media representative, Merrie Spaeth, was a Reagan administration press officer and an advisor to Ken Starr in the Clinton impeachment.

"When the 'Swift Boat Veterans for Truth' launched its campaign against John Kerry 10 days ago, leadership and guidance were provided by Republican activists and presidential friends from Texas -- notably Houston attorney John E. O'Neill and corporate media consultant Merrie Spaeth.

[PhillyKev 0]

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>Equivalent? I think not.

Both produced with a clear political objective; both written by someone with an axe to grind. You are right that they are in different media, though.

One coordinated by republican party pundits, they other by an independent citizen.

[Ron 7]

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One coordinated by republican party pundits, they other by an independent citizen.

Whats the difference between a group of guys funding something, and one guy funding it?

Both funded it for a reason and with political motives...

Moore also wanted to make money.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[turtlespeed 212]

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One coordinated by republican party pundits, they other by an independent citizen.

Whats the difference between a group of guys funding something, and one guy funding it?

Both funded it for a reason and with political motives...

Moore also wanted to make money.

Hmmm, and only one of them lied, bold face, and called thier political statement a documentary, and then will not put forth a retraction, even when the information that is given to us as "fact" is proven to be wrong.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[PhillyKev 0]

You're being a little harsh on the vets, aren't you

[PhreeZone 15]

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Hmmm, and only one of them lied, bold face

Here is an article detailing that one of the people in the ad and most of the basis for the book said that his afidit he sent them saying Kerry did'nt deserve the Silver Star was wrong.
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2004/08/06/veteran_retracts_criticism_of_kerry/

He was also standing side by side with Kerry in 1996 defending him from similar charges then.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[turtlespeed 212]

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Hmmm, and only one of them lied, bold face

Here is an article detailing that one of the people in the ad and most of the basis for the book said that his afidit he sent them saying Kerry did'nt deserve the Silver Star was wrong.
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2004/08/06/veteran_retracts_criticism_of_kerry/

He was also standing side by side with Kerry in 1996 defending him from similar charges then.

lol - nice edit of the quote . . .
I never said that they were 100% truth ful - in fact I have never researched it - however they are not TRYing to state that it is. They are sayin that it is what it is - a book.

MM says his is a documentary -

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[PhillyKev 0]

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MM says his is a documentary

Got a source for that? I asked this a long time ago and never got a response. I've heard plenty of people refer to F911 as a documentary, but Moore isn't one of them. He may have, but I've never seen it, have you?

[PhreeZone 15]

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I never said that they were 100% truth ful - in fact I have never researched it - however they are not TRYing to state that it is. They are sayin that it is what it is - a book.

MM says his is a documentary -

Watch the ad, it says that its the truth.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[billvon 2,442]

>mmm, and only one of them lied, bold face, and called thier political statement a documentary . . .

I think it is absolutely hilarious that a thread that started out wondering if democrats were going to whine about some book turned into a whine about Michael Moore.

[turtlespeed 212]

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>mmm, and only one of them lied, bold face, and called thier political statement a documentary . . .

I think it is absolutely hilarious that a thread that started out wondering if democrats were going to whine about some book turned into a whine about Michael Moore.

I'm not whining - just stating facts.

If stating facts is whining - you do alot of that yourself.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[sundevil777 94]

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on the issues I was most concerned about in 2000, he matched up on them more then anyone and I was disappointed when he lost the primary.

I don't like the way he portrayed everyone in congress as corrupt due to campaign money, well not exactly, since he didn't admit to being corrupt himself. And then to push so much for his campaign finance reform as such a great solution. It has turned out to have no good effect.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[Kennedy 0]

Sure it had a great effect. Soft money from billionaires is now much more coordinated by "unaffiliated" groups, and the little guy, Joe and Jane Citizen, now have no say whatsoever in the months before an election.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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I fail to understand why it is important at all - I hope americans aren't voting based on whether or not someone served in the military exclusively and/or whether that service was 'honorable' or whatever you want to argue it is or is not.

I would hope americans are going to vote based on their judgement of the candidates and whether they can run the country.

Never fear. That's exactly what I'm going to do.
I'm going to vote for George W. Bush because he is not a sworn enemy of my right to own and carry firearms, like John Kerry is.

Thanks for the reminder, TK!

-

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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I haven't heard Kerry complaining about it nearly as much as I've heard McCain.

"Dishonest and dishonorable", said Senator John McCain - referring to the ad. http://news.google.com/news?q=mccain&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=nn

Now THERE'S a man with integrity. You could learn something from him.

He pushed through an ill-conceived legislative abomination that took a giant shit on the first amendment, in the name of futile "campaign finance reform," that is now roundly condemned by both the NRA and the ACLU alike. That's integrity??

-

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[Kennedy 0]

You notice all the best (worst) gun banners all have funny little nick names?

There's DiFi, Chuckles, sKerry, Ted "I get away with murder" Kennedy, and some others I can't think of at the moment.

That reminds me, has anyone checked to see whether or not Teddy's personal security is packing heat?

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Kennedy 0]

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He pushed through an ill-conceived legislative abomination that took a giant shit on the first amendment, in the name of futile "campaign finance reform," that is now roundly condemned by both the NRA and the ACLU alike. That's integrity??

He's got Integrity.

Maybe not so much in the way of Ingenuity, or Intelligence, but hey, you can't have it all, right?

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[billvon 2,442]

>I'm not whining - just stating facts.

When democrats state facts (like, the vet-smearers have contradicted themselves several times) is that whining or stating facts? Or is it just that anything a democrat says is whining, and anything a republican says is facts?

[tkhayes 140]

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Never fear. That's exactly what I'm going to do.
I'm going to vote for George W. Bush because he is not a sworn enemy of my right to own and carry firearms, like John Kerry is.

Thanks for the reminder, TK!

-
---Jeffrey

Cool, at least that's what you believe in - If I could vote, I would vote to get George Bush out of office before he removes all my freedoms with the 'patriot act' and before we become a police state. Not to mention all the lies about war and the deaths of thousands because of it.

Can't wait to get THAT tax bill

[nick88 0]

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Quote

Never fear. That's exactly what I'm going to do.
I'm going to vote for George W. Bush because he is not a sworn enemy of my right to own and carry firearms, like John Kerry is.

Thanks for the reminder, TK!

-
---Jeffrey

Cool, at least that's what you believe in - If I could vote, I would vote to get George Bush out of office before he removes all my freedoms with the 'patriot act' and before we become a police state. Not to mention all the lies about war and the deaths of thousands because of it.

Can't wait to get THAT tax bill

I'm not going to vote for Kerry because he told the same lies and who idea of a war on terrorism is running scared and practically inviting them over here to murder our families.

[Kennedy 0]

Were We Lied To?

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[jimbarry 0]

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Were We Lied To?

hmm... i wonder why kerry's quote doesn't show up in any of his campaign commercials. surprised it didn't come up at the DNC...

[TheAnvil 0]

The plot thickens...from Boortz....

THIS IS RATHER ODD, DON'T YOU THINK

Swift Boat Veterans for Truth run an ad attacking John Kerry's Vietnam war record. In that ad a man named George Elliott, a retired Navy Lt. Commander, said that he made a terrible mistake when he signed the documents for Kerry's Silver Star. After that ad surfaced a story appeared in the Boston Globe written by Michael Kranish saying that Elliot had recanted his story.

Then things got curious.

After the Kranish story about Elliot's retraction ran, Elliot reportedly stepped forward and said that the Kranish article was wrong and that he had not, in fact, retracted his statement contained in the Swiftees' ad. It was also reported that Michael Kranish was somewhat of a Kerry insider, having written an introduction to the Kerry-Edwards campaign book entitled "Our Plan for America." That led to this story in the Globe written by Susan Milligan. Milligan said that the Globe was standing by it's reporting, and that Kranish did not have any connection to the Kerry campaign and did not write any introduction to Kerry's book.

Then things got even more curious.

Did Kranish write an introduction to the Kerry-Edwards campaign book or not? Has he been exposed as a Kerry supporter bringing his bias to his news reporting? Or has there been a simple misunderstanding.

Let's just say if you had searched Amazon.com or PublicAffairsBooks looking for the Kerry-Edwards book last week you would have seen a reference to an introduction written by Michael Kranish. Later, after the Kranish article about Elliot's supposed retraction appeared in the Boston Globe, the web pages for the campaign book suddenly dropped the references to Kranish and his introduction.

Interesting

Vinny the Anvil

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[PhillyKev 0]

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Interesting

That is interesting. Also a good indicator of what a red herring this whole story is. There's veterans who served under him supporting him. There's veterans who served at the same time against him. IMO, the whole thing is a wash. Obviously some people support Kerry, some don't. I don't care if they're swift boat captains, Alaskan Crab Fisherman or pirates.