20 Year Old Altico Dolphin Container & Reserve - Any Value? Advice? D-17482

[techbuzz 0]

I've been out of the sport for a very long time. Always thinking I may get-back-in I've been hauling around and keeping well stored my old CRW container + reserve, but it hasn't happened. At this point I would like to part with the rig and I am seeking some advice before posting to classifieds/etc. Advice in both possible value and if I should sell the 23 year old reserve at all, or if it has any value otherwise... seems riggers may scoff at such an old reserve.

Container: Altico Dolphin D-4; manufactured 1996. Very clean and always stored inside the home, typical room temperature and humidity. ~400 CRW jumps in the late 1990's. No AAD. Reserve still packed... for nearly 16 years - will of course pop reserve before putting the container in anyone else's hands.

Reserve: Glidepath (became Flight Concepts) Firelite 7-cell (175 sq ft?), manufactured June 1993. ~3 reserve rides from shenanigans during CRW USA Nationals practice & CRW world record attempts.

I'm located in San Francisco.
Thoughts?

Thanks,
Rick
D-17482

[mathrick 2]

This makes it slightly newer than the container I bought and am currently jumping. Mine is '95 Vector II with '90 Cricket packed inside. Put together by one of the most senior riggers in Denmark.

Reserves only really care about repacks and jumps, not years. Yours had a 16 year break, which means 32 repacks it didn't suffer (for you keeping score at home, repack cycle is yearly in DK, which is how a '90 Cricket can still be airworthy).

"Skydivers are highly emotional people. They get all excited about their magical black box full of mysterious life saving forces."

[riggerrob 613]

As long as the new owner loads that Firelite 176 at less than 1 pound per square foot ... no big deal.

The original objection to reserves more than 20 years old was trying to get gutter-gear off the DZ. The worst gutter-gear were round reserves - with acid mesh - sewn during the 1980s.
The second objection to reserves more than 20 years old was trying to eliminate round reserves a decade or so after round mains disappeared from skydiving schools. Why buy a reserve that flies radically different than any canopy you have seen before?
Thirdly, the "20 year rule" helped eliminate first-generation square reserves (Safety-Fliers, Safety-Star, SOS, etc) which were crude 5-cells
made of LoPo fabric.
Then the "20 year rule" chased off square reserves with odd steering line configurations (Para-Flite 5-cell Swift).
Then it helped chase off third generation (e.g. Firelite) that were never intended to be loaded more than 1 pound per square foot.

In the future, the 20 year rule will be applied to those "ridiculously bulky canopies made of old-fashioned F-111 fabric."
Hah!
Hah!

On a practical note, now that acid mesh has (thankfully) disappeared, I can relax my standards to 25 years. Since PD started selling reserves intended to be loaded more than 1 pound per square foot around 1990 (25 years ago) I can worry less about customers over-loading reserves.

[techbuzz 0]

Thank you for the detailed info riggerrob. I was certainly under the impression that a 20 year old canopy was a no-go for most riggers.

Now I need to find a buyer similarly (or less) sized to myself, ~150lb pre-gear. Any ballpark value of container + reserve?

[justme12001 0]

My first thought when reading this was that the fabric may have fused together. Would there be any issues with it being packed for 16 years?

[techbuzz 0]

re fabric fusing: *I don't know*. If it may be of interest to the community to pop and inspect a 16 year old reserve repack and document said inspection, I would be happy to connect up with a local rigger to do this... maybe shoot some video as well.

edit: last I&R for this rig: April 24, 2000.

[councilman24 37]

The reserve will be fine. Get somebody light to go jump it. Only possible issue will be safety stow rubber deteriorated. I predict it will open in less than 4 seconds from a cutaway. Faster from a hop and pop.

I don't own anything newer than 1997. Except AAD's and a wing suit. This would be a good first rig for a smaller person assuming the harness fit and no physical damage to the equipment. Rig is still supported by Peregrine Manufacturing.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[brianfry713 0]

There is no such thing as a "20 year rule" or any set lifetime for sport gear. A few pilot rigs have around a 20 year lifetime so this is a common myth. However a rigger is able to refuse to pack any rig of any age that they either are not comfortable with or don't feel is airworthy. PD has a rule that after 25 rides or 40 repacks a reserve has to be sent to the factory for inspection.

I have packed a number of reserves around that age, I haven't yet been asked to pack anything more than about 30 years old.

If you want you could take it to SkyDance in Davis or the Parachute Center in Lodi. They have master riggers there that have been jumping a long time. You could just post an honest ad describing the gear and see if anyone wants it. For the right price there might be someone.

[techbuzz 0]

Thank you for the details Brian.
Discount my taking the rig to a DZ. I'm lazy AND will be leaving the country for an extended trip in a couple of weeks so seeking to sell this rig asap. Early spring cleaning. Creating a classified listing soon per reply recommendations...

[gowlerk 2,114]

Back to your original question about the value of an old Dolphin. Value is determined by demand. The demand today is for containers that are "freefly friendly". Dolphins can be factory updated to approach this standard, but the cost is over $400 usually. Your Dolphin probably still has snaps on the riser covers. It's not that the entertainer is unsafe, but it's not suitable for some of the newer style of jumping. Therefore the price you can sell it for is limited.

Probably 600 to 700 USD is what you may be able to get for it. I would advise asking less if you want it to sell quickly.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[techbuzz 0]

Thank you gowlerk for following up on the value question. Yes, this D-4 has snaps across the risers. When I post to the classifieds I will reference this thread... hoping to put this starter / CRW rig into the hands of someone that gets precisely what they expect; with this thread as a barometer.

[Rover 11]

Quote

There is no such thing as a "20 year rule" or any set lifetime for sport gear.

Not correct - Parachutes Australia has a 20 year life on all its containers including the Talon it makes under licence.

2 wrongs don't make a right - but 3 lefts do.

[techbuzz 0]

But it appears that there is no "20 year rule" that applies to the impetus of this thread; my '96 Dolphin D-4 container and '93 Glidepath Firelite reserve, correct?

[wolfriverjoe 1,481]

techbuzz

But it appears that there is no "20 year rule" that applies to the impetus of this thread; my '96 Dolphin D-4 container and '93 Glidepath Firelite reserve, correct?

Not in the US.

Some other places, yes.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[gowlerk 2,114]

Rover

Quote

There is no such thing as a "20 year rule" or any set lifetime for sport gear.

Not correct - Parachutes Australia has a 20 year life on all its containers including the Talon it makes under licence.

There is no such limit in the free world. Nanny States are another matter.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.