Pilot of Memphis Belle Dead at 85

[Gawain 0]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,120053,00.html

Just some background, the Memphis Belle was the first heavy Allied bomber in the European theater to survive 25 missions. 25 missions was the full rotation for a bomber/crew to get home. Most of the US planes flew daylight missions over Europe.

A movie was made in 1990 about the Belle, but the article says it was there was a lot of "liberty" with that story.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[tonyhays 86]

The Memphis Belle was not the first to complete 25 missions...it was the Hell's Angels of the 303rd.

http://www.303rdbga.com/

“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”

[Casurf1978 0]

Bomber crews had lots of guts. I remember from a WW2 class in college my Prof brought in a tail gunner, he said the average life expentancy for one was a little under 2 weeks. Some of the stories he told, like sometimes the ball gunner would be trapped and the pilot couldnt get the landing gear down and still had to land. Or how the german fighter would take out the tail gunner first. Also talked about the fighter escorts and how the P51 was a major turning point for them. It wasnt till the middle of 1944 I think that they got full fighter escorts to Berlin. Before that the allied fighters would go half way then head back to England. Then the Luftwaffe would attack.

[kallend 1,672]

Quote

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,120053,00.html

Just some background, the Memphis Belle was the first heavy Allied bomber in the European theater to survive 25 missions. 25 missions was the full rotation for a bomber/crew to get home. Most of the US planes flew daylight missions over Europe.

A movie was made in 1990 about the Belle, but the article says it was there was a lot of "liberty" with that story.

Maybe it was the first heavy US bomber to complete 25, but I don't believe it was the first Allied bomber to do this.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[baa75 0]

Just read the article...

Quote

The crew completed its 25th bombing mission during World War II on May 17, 1943. It was a historic number; the Belle was the first heavy bomber in the European theater to last 25 missions, the magic number to be sent home.

BettyAnn

Getting married? Check out my website!

[Gawain 0]

Quote

The Memphis Belle was not the first to complete 25 missions...it was the Hell's Angels of the 303rd.

http://www.303rdbga.com/

Interesting, perhaps the Memphis Belle is the first heavy bomber, and the 303rd had the first aircrew? The dates are only a few days apart.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[tonyhays 86]

My grandfather was the pilot of the Hell's Angels. When I asked him about it, he said they beat the Memphis Belle by 6 days. The reason the Belle got all the attention, was because it flew home and did a tour to improve moral. The Hell's Angels stayed and flew another 23 missions (different crew).

“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”

[kallend 1,672]

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Just read the article...

Quote

The crew completed its 25th bombing mission during World War II on May 17, 1943. It was a historic number; the Belle was the first heavy bomber in the European theater to last 25 missions, the magic number to be sent home.

I saw that, but British bomber crews did not have a magic number or get "sent home".

Guy Gibson's RAF Lancaster crew certainly had way more than 25 missions by May 1943, and the Lanc was a heavy.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[nacmacfeegle 0]

"I saw that, but British bomber crews did not have a magic number or get "sent home".
Guy Gibson's RAF Lancaster crew certainly had way more than 25 missions by May 1943, and the Lanc was a heavy."

Guy Gibson's record was certainly exceptional, it is believed that he flew over 170 sorties including 2 tours on bombers, and one as a night fighter pilot.

I don't want to detract from the accomplishments of the Memphis Belle, they were flying in daylight, so the risks were certainly more considerable.

--------------------

He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[jakee 1,271]

The Lancaster certainly was heavy. A normal bombload was around 14,000lb and by the end of the war modified lancs with reduced armament could carry a single 22,000lb bomb, the largest conventional weapon delivered in WW2. By contrast the B17 with a small bomb bay and far greater defensive armament could take about 5000lb of bombs which wasn't much for a heavy bomber.
The deHavilland Mosquito, a twin engined bomber made of wood, could carry 4000lb of bombs with greater low level performance than an Me109 and some versions of the mossie were also used as night fighters.
Not to take anything away from the B17 though, flying over Germany in broad daylight they needed all the defensive firepower they could get.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Skyrad 0]

Wether British, American or German those bomber crews endured terrors beyond the imagination of most of us on a daily basis. My sincere appreciation to any of the allied aircrew who won us the freedom we have today.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[kallend 1,672]

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Wether British, American or German those bomber crews endured terrors beyond the imagination of most of us on a daily basis. My sincere appreciation to any of the allied aircrew who won us the freedom we have today.

No one disputes that. I just dispute the accuracy of the news report and the initial quote. When it's so easy to get it right, there's no excuse for getting it wrong. It isn't quantum physics.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[DrunkMonkey 0]

Here's a toast to the host
Of those who love the vastness of the sky,
To a friend we send a message of his brother men who fly.
We drink to those who gave their all of old,
Then down we roar to score the rainbow's pot of gold.
A toast to the host of men we boast, the U.S. Air Force!

[rickjump1 0]

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The Lancaster certainly was heavy.....

I believe there was one set of controls for one pilot on the Lancaster.

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

• Quote

[nacmacfeegle 0]

"I believe there was one set of controls for one pilot on the Lancaster. "
I believe you are correct, there was no co-pilot, but the beastie's bomb capacity of up to 22,000 lbs would put it in the 'heavy' classification, in my book.

Just to clarify a point hat John raised, the crews would get a 'rest' of 6 months after 30 missions, and 6 days off every 6 weeks.

An insight into one Lanc, and its crew is here.
http://www.edenbridgetown.com/in_the_past/bill_walters_story/lancaster_bomber.shtml

--------------------

He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[rickjump1 0]

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I believe you are correct, there was no co-pilot, but the beastie's bomb capacity of up to 22,000 lbs would put it in the 'heavy' classification, in my book.

That was a "lot of airplane" for one man to keep up with. I don't think the majority of Americans understand the suffering and lack of manpower you Brits endured during WWII.

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

• Quote

[Scratch 0]

If you ever get the chance to climb inside a Lancaster, Halifax, Stirling, B17 or other heavy of the period you will be amazed at the men who flew in them.

They are small, cramped and the only thing separating the crew from 20mm amd 40mm cannon shells. Not to mention 88mm AA shrapnel, is a skin of aluminium a little thicker than a Cessna's.

Scary shit indeed

[nacmacfeegle 0]

"I don't think the majority of Americans understand the suffering and lack of manpower you Brits endured during WWII."

The article also mentioned the lack of heating, minus 40 (celsius or fahrenheit, its the same) was pretty common. Thats cold.

To be fair, I don't think a lot of us Brits from the post war era fully understand it either. I can't even begin to imagine what it must have been like in Coventry or London during the Blitz. Or seeing Europe for the first time over a landing craft ramp, or out the door of a Dakota.

--------------------

He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[Scratch 0]

After a quick google to give you an idea of the size of a WW2 'Heavy'

Grumman F14
Length- 62' 8.5"
Crew - 2

Avro Lancaster
Length- 69' 4"
Crew - 7

[kallend 1,672]

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"I don't think the majority of Americans understand the suffering and lack of manpower you Brits endured during WWII."

The article also mentioned the lack of heating, minus 40 (celsius or fahrenheit, its the same) was pretty common. Thats cold.

To be fair, I don't think a lot of us Brits from the post war era fully understand it either. I can't even begin to imagine what it must have been like in Coventry or London during the Blitz. Or seeing Europe for the first time over a landing craft ramp, or out the door of a Dakota.

You (plural) need to talk to WWII vets while they're still here to talk to. They're disappearing fast.

I'm old enough to have had uncles that fought on the Somme in WWI. Fascinating stories they told. Stuff you won't find in the history books.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Casurf1978 0]

Quote

Quote

"I don't think the majority of Americans understand the suffering and lack of manpower you Brits endured during WWII."

The article also mentioned the lack of heating, minus 40 (celsius or fahrenheit, its the same) was pretty common. Thats cold.

To be fair, I don't think a lot of us Brits from the post war era fully understand it either. I can't even begin to imagine what it must have been like in Coventry or London during the Blitz. Or seeing Europe for the first time over a landing craft ramp, or out the door of a Dakota.

You (plural) need to talk to WWII vets while they're still here to talk to. They're disappearing fast.

I'm old enough to have had uncles that fought on the Somme in WWI. Fascinating stories they told. Stuff you won't find in the history books.

I agree with both of you. Especially with my generations, those born in the 70's to early 80s. When I lived in Vienna I came across some WW2 vets from both sides and the stories they told were far more intresting and insightful than any book or movie I've seen.

[markd_nscr986 0]

guys who were bomber drivers that you would never guess.......Tom Landry (B17) George McGovern (B24)
& Gene Roddenberry(B24 I think...)

Marc SCR 6046 SCS 3004

[kallend 1,672]

Quote

guys who were bomber drivers that you would never guess.......Tom Landry (B17) George McGovern (B24)
& Gene Roddenberry(B24 I think...)

Jimmy Stewart

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 2,466]

>If you ever get the chance to climb inside a Lancaster, Halifax,
> Stirling, B17 or other heavy of the period you will be amazed at the
> men who flew in them.

I jumped out of one of them. It was amazingly tiny inside. It must have been pretty damn cold, cruising at 25,000 feet with big holes cut in the sides of the plane.

[calphoto 0]

Clark Gable was a Bombadier/Navigator

Hartwood Paracenter - The closest DZ to DC!