Hunting is Depraved!

[JohnRich 4]

According to Dr. Hurd:

Question: What do you think of hunting and killing animals? And should it be legal?

Answer: "Frankly, I find it rather depraved to hunt and kill animals for the sake of sport. I don't see the psychological value in killing animals for sport. There are far more constructive hobbies available, including but not limited to: sports; hiking; stamp and coin collecting; reading; golfing; gardening -- the list is endless. I can't understand what a hunter gets out of hunting for sport. It seems to me that it has something to do with the value of power over the more vulnerable, which raises a question about why such a motivation is present in a person. Raising animals to sell, as done on cattle and chicken farms, is a perfectly legitimate business and I understand the motivation of making a profit. I don't understand the motivation in loving to kill an animal for the mere sake of it. Most of us would roundly condemn a person who tortures or kills a cat or a dog; why the double standard with a less domesticated animal?"

Source

Put down your guns, and take up stamp collecting!

[PhillyKev 0]

I agree with this, "I don't understand the motivation in loving to kill an animal for the mere sake of it. "

Fortunately, though, that's not why, with maybe the exception of a very few whackos, people hunt. Even thought I've only been hunting a couple times, I think it's much more noble to hunt and kill what you're going to eat then pull it off a shelf. It's not like there are vast mounds of rotting deer carcases laying around. That's good eatin!

[pajarito 0]

Sounds like a "hunter whuffo" question.

[kallend 1,623]

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I agree with this, "I don't understand the motivation in loving to kill an animal for the mere sake of it. "

Fortunately, though, that's not why, with maybe the exception of a very few whackos, people hunt. Even thought I've only been hunting a couple times, I think it's much more noble to hunt and kill what you're going to eat then pull it off a shelf. It's not like there are vast mounds of rotting deer carcases laying around. That's good eatin!

In sports, each side has the same opportunity to win.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 2,400]

>In sports, each side has the same opportunity to win.

I've seen a bunch of archery competitions. The target never wins.

[PhillyKev 0]

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In sports, each side has the same opportunity to win.

What does that have to do with my post? I was talking about competition between deer and people. I was talking about hunting and killing your food instead of going to the supermarket and buying it.

[kelpdiver 2]

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In sports, each side has the same opportunity to win.

Have you been watching the NBA's first round matches??

So for big game hunting where meat is not involved, let's tie a bloody steak to the neck of the hunter.

The ocean is fairer - the spearfisher joins the food chain when participating.

That aside, sport hunting for dinner is sounder for the food supply than buying it from the supermarket. Fresher, little bycatch. When it comes to the ground beef you buy, igorance of how it got there is probably best for your appetite.

[Skyrad 0]

I've got nothing against hunting so long as you eat what you kill. However I don't think sport is really an acurate description when you've got a rifle with a scope against a deer. If you want to hunt and call it sport then try hunting the Marsi way. You and a spear against a lion.............Now thats sport.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[kelpdiver 2]

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I've got nothing against hunting so long as you eat what you kill. However I don't think sport is really an acurate description when you've got a rifle with a scope against a deer. If you want to hunt and call it sport then try hunting the Marsi way. You and a spear against a lion.............Now thats sport.

Black powder guns are a reasonable compromise.

Apparently bow and arrow is becoming popular too. Both require a higher degree of stealth to get closer to the deer, and limit you to one or two shots. I do wonder if it is less humane though.

[rgoper 0]

"you've got to kill it before you grill it"
Ted Nugent

i think he's right! i've hunted all my life, but i will not kill for trophy or to help "thin out the herds" i hunt for the love and sport of it, plus venison is really good.

--Richard--
"We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist"

[FallRate 0]

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but i will not kill for trophy or to help "thin out the herds"

Thinning out the herds is a legtimate reason to hunt. Overpopulation is a danger to the animals and us. I don't do it...just happy that some people enjoy it so that we don't have to pay to have it done.

FallRate

[kjarv 0]

Why does this thread make me think I hear someone sayiing "Don't play with your food"

[Kennedy 0]

Hunting Fact Sheet 2003

Often camouflaged from the public eye, the efforts of hunters as conservationists over the last century have restored America`s game populations and enhanced the habitat of numerous wildlife species. No other group has come close to sportsmen in contributing the volunteer hours and funding necessary to make such an impact on wildlife conservation.

President Theodore Roosevelt, arguably America`s first prominent conservationist, knew first hand of the advantages regulated hunting and conservation bring to wildlife. During the late 1800s, Roosevelt saw animal numbers deteriorate because of over-hunting driven by unregulated meat and fur markets. As President, Roosevelt began creating programs aimed at restoring game populations to healthy levels.

Hunting is an integral part of the fabric of our economy and cultural heritage and it is also an important wildlife management tool. Everyone benefits from the excise taxes that hunters voluntarily pay on guns, ammunition and outdoor equipment. Since 1937, hunters have contributed over 4 billion dollars through the Pittman-Robertson Act for the benefit of all wildlife species. These dollars have been used to purchase millions of acres of public lands.

Through over 10,000 clubs and organizations such as NRA, Ducks Unlimited, Safari Club International, National Wild Turkey Federation, Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation and Quail Unlimited, sportsmen contribute an additional $300 million each year to wildlife conservation activities.

Hunters and fishermen fund nearly 75% of the annual income for all 50 state conservation agencies. Through license fees and excise taxes on arms and gear, sportsmen contribute $200 million per year for wildlife conservation. (U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service)

Hunting Is A Vital Part Of American Culture

- Hunting is an important and traditional recreational activity in which 20,000,000 Americans 16 years old and older participate.
- Hunters have been and continue to be among the foremost supporters of sound wildlife management and conservation practices in the United States.
- Hunters and organizations related to hunting provide direct assistance to wildlife managers and enforcement officers at all levels of government.
- Hunting is an essential component of effective wildlife management, in that it tends to reduce conflicts between people and wildlife and provides incentives for the conservation of wildlife habitats and ecosystems on which wildlife depends.

Through legislative programs designed to channel funds back into the conservation process, hunters have restored populations of deer, elk, antelope, turkeys and ducks to record numbers.

- Hunting contributes over $30 billion to the economy each year, supporting over 1,000,000 jobs. (National Shooting Sports Foundation)
- Hunting provides food for people. For nearly a decade, hunters have provided thousands of pounds of game meat through donation programs such as Hunters Sharing the Harvest and Hunters for the Hungry.
- Hunting helps manage animal populations resulting in less human/animal traffic accidents.

Hunting Teaches Responsible Gun Ownership

The socialization into gun ownership is also vastly different for legal and illegal gun owners. [Adolescents] who own legal guns have fathers who own guns for sport and hunting. On the other hand, those who own illegal guns have friends who own illegal guns and are far more likely to be gang members. (U.S. Dept. Of Justice, March 1994, Office of Juvenile Justice & Delinquency Prevention -Urban Delinquency & Substance Abuse, July 1993.)

Persons in rural areas are more likely to be hunters. The total violent crime rate and murder rate in rural counties are 61% and 41% lower, respectively, than those found in metropolitan areas. (Drawn from FBI Uniform Crime Reports, Crime in the United States 2002.)

Pittman-Robertson Act

The vehicle that actually transforms money into habitat, ecological study into proven conservation tactics, and the idea of harmony between nature and society into reality is the Pittman-Robertson Federal Aid in Wildlife Restoration Act. Who fuels this vehicle? Sportsmen.

Signed into law by President Franklin D. Roosevelt on Sept. 2, 1937, the Federal Aid in Wildlife Restoration Act, or the Pittman-Robertson Act, created a 10% excise tax on sporting arms and ammunition. Revenue is deposited in a special trust fund under the management of the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service to be used for state wildlife restoration projects. In the 1970s the excise tax was extended to archery equipment and handguns. One-half of the tax revenue collected on handguns and archery equipment may be used by state fish and wildlife agencies for hunter safety training and range development.

The approximately 200 million dollars generated by Pittman-Robertson each year are matched with sportsmens` dollars at the state level to pay for projects that will restore wildlife populations, expand habitat and train hunters. To date, more than $4.2 billion in federal excise revenue has been generated. (U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service)

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[Nightingale 0]

Killing an animal for the sake of killing it is simply cruel (provided there are no extenuating circumstances such as overpopulation, and the animal is not a nuisance or diseased).

Provided you eat what you kill and don't simply hang a head on the wall and leave the rest to rot, I have no problem at all with hunting or hunters.

[EDYDO 0]

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According to Dr. Hurd:
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Put down your guns, and take up stamp collecting!

Would you still quote him if he thought skydiving was insane? I'll whistle my tune and Dr. Hurd is free to whistle his.

Ed

[nbblood 0]

Pretty good stuff there Kennedy.

To go along with that first part, Utah's Dedicated Hunter Program, to which I belong, actually requires conservation service. This includes, maintaining roads, build/repair fences, erosion control, reforestation, water storage maintenance, among a myriad of other things. Granted, hunters do benefit from the program, but so does the environment and wildlife.

Somebody also mentioned how humane bowhunting is. I think my bow is every bit as lethal and probably more than my rifles, my muzzleloader is just as lethal too. Kind of comparing apples to oranges here, but an arrow going through an animal does significantly more physical damage than a bullet, just without the impact shock that comes from the high velocity. It comes down to the hunter using ethics in selecting opportunities.

On that note, a vast majority of hunters are not out killing for the sake of killing. Sure many hunters enjoy trophies, but they don't just leave the rest of the animal to rot. This is a too common misconception. Sure there are those that do it, but they are the exceptions, not the rule. And, by the way, true hunters are after them. Leaving an animal to waste is criminal in every state I know of and hunters are joining forces to get rid of these people.

And, finally......I just found out today that I drew a Utah mature bull elk tag again this year!!!!! WoooHoooo!!! What timing for this post.

Blues,
Nathan

Blues,
Nathan

If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute.

[JohnRich 4]

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Would you still quote him if he thought skydiving was insane? I'll whistle my tune and Dr. Hurd is free to whistle his.

Certainly. I love to expose nuts of all varieties.

[Kennedy 0]

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Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
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[JohnRich 4]

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I don't think sport is really an acurate description when you've got a rifle with a scope against a deer.

First of all, many states restrict deer hunting to shotguns only, like Ohio. And limit the number of cartridges you can have in the gun. In Ohio, it was three slugs, and a shotgun isn't much good beyond 100 yards. Add heavy woods, and you're likely shooting distance is even less. The deer have to almost stroll right past you to give you a decent shot.

Last year I spent a week sitting in the sub-freezing snow up there deer hunting. During five days, I only saw three deer, and didn't get a shot at any of them. Having a high-power rifle and a scope wouldn't have changed that. It's not as sure-fire and easy a thing as you might think. The two others in the woods with me had similar experiences - we all saw deer, but none of us bagged one.

Wild animals have a huge advantage over humans, in alertness, camoflauge and stealth. They've got millions of years of evolution looking out for them. They can walk on leaves and snow without making a sound. Modern man going into the woods, has little of that knowledge and skill left in them.

Even so, there are plenty of deer to go around. Ohio has expanded their deer hunting, by allowing each hunter to take up to three deer each season, because the deer keep increasing in numbers by leaps and bounds. But even these greater catch limits aren't enough to control them. I ran the numbers in my head, with the estimated herd size, the reproduction rate, and the number taken my hunters, and even with the increased harvest, they're still increasing in numbers each year. There's no shortage at all.

Even with a high power rifle and a scope in open country, many hunters aren't good enough shots, don't know how to visually calculate distance, or don't know their rifle's zeros. So even with these "advantage", the deer still stand a good chance of escaping.

[kmcguffee 0]

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In sports, each side has the same opportunity to win.

I've seen lots of sports where one team was overwhelmingly more skilled, larger, taller, faster, than the other team. They didn't have the same opportunity to win. Does that mean it is no longer a sport?

"Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Ben Franklin

[christelsabine 1]

There is a close connection to your post. the whuffos in skydiving are similar to the whuffos in hunting: they simply do not understand.

you throw yourself out of a plane or a ballon: they do not understand. but you understand why.

hunters, especially in industrial countries, have to follow strict regulations made by hunting officials/councils. every owner or lessee/tenant is obliged to follow the so called "firing plan", made by officials. these plans are budgeting plans, which strictly have to fulfilled. this is based on f.e . how many deers are located in this special hunting area, farmers are complaining that wild boars are destroying their fields for which they claim compensation etc. etc.

so, all is well acccording to regulations. this, only hunters understand.

next point: our deers do not have any native opponents. hunters do a job to select their quantity each hunting area can support.

it's just s simply mind who claims that hunting is a kind of killing defendless poor animals.

and BTW: so many times, these poor deers are the winners.. it is really not easy to fire a good shot...

surely, in Europe or the US hunters do not hunt for food.

and hey: i love to be a hunter, a careful one, and i am vegetarian.

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[rickjump1 0]

Does a bald eagle really taste like a cross between a spotted owl and a snowy egret?

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[kallend 1,623]

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In sports, each side has the same opportunity to win.

I've seen lots of sports where one team was overwhelmingly more skilled, larger, taller, faster, than the other team. They didn't have the same opportunity to win. Does that mean it is no longer a sport?

You are being silly. Hunting is not a sport. If you want to shoot for sport, paintball is a sport.

Please note that I have nothing against hunting. I just think it absurd to call hunters "sportsmen".

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Kennedy 0]

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I just think it absurd to call hunters "sportsmen".

How do you define sportsman then, professor?

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The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.


sportsman

\Sports"man\, n.;pl. Sportsmen. One who pursues the sports of the field; one who hunts, fishes, etc.

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Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.


sportsmen

Sportsman \Sports"man\, n.;pl. Sportsmen. One who pursues the sports of the field; one who hunts, fishes, etc.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
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[kallend 1,623]

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I just think it absurd to call hunters "sportsmen".

How do you define sportsman then, professor?

Quote

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.


sportsman

\Sports"man\, n.;pl. Sportsmen. One who pursues the sports of the field; one who hunts, fishes, etc.

Quote

Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.


sportsmen

Sportsman \Sports"man\, n.;pl. Sportsmen. One who pursues the sports of the field; one who hunts, fishes, etc.

Someone who competes with others, all of whom participate voluntarily in a fair game. I don't think Christians versus lions and tigers in the Colliseum were considered to be sports.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.