Euthanasia

[rfaberh 0]

I’m writing about euthanasia (help to assistant suicide to a dying patient who has requested to be killed) in relation to my study. I’m studying at a Danish university where I study the humanities. This year my topic is philosophy and sociology.
I have chosen to write about euthanasia because it’s not illegal here in Denmark but a majority of the Danish population seems to wish that it would be legally. It’s legal to stop a treatment if it doesn’t have the suitable effect or give morphine to a suffering person even though that the time of death will be hastened. Why not also legalize euthanasia?

There are a lot of arguments for and against legitimation of euthanasia some religious, some mention the slide “effect” and some sees the human life as inviolable etc.

We can control almost anything in life, but the question is if we also should control death? Or is it not what we are already doing?

I would like to hear your opinion of this subject and hear yours arguments for or against euthanasia.

[Guest]

The biggest objection I have is the strong possibility for abuse ("getting rid of" people who are infirm).

Please read "Slouching Towards Gomorrah" by Robert Bork.

mh

.

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[Faber 0]

You know my oppinion,i guessBut to getting some life into this subject i will tell what i do mean..

I think that People who sign a vaver before they went sick or to the cause were they might want to die,were they defime under which circumstanses such an dramatic action.

Example my family knows what im doing(if you dont know,then i LOVE to BASE jump).I know theres a risk that i might get killed or survir injuryed.I therefor has talken deeply by my parents about what my whishes will be if i some day should be in a possision were this subject could come to talk.
Personaly i want serval docs to tjeck me out,can i comunicate some how(if not,i will only be abel to lay in a bed.kill me then),if i can comunicate then ask me(if im so bad that my living will end whith in short time anyway).Then I want the answer to be taken sireusly but give it some time(iedont kill me becours i says it in a moment of sadness),ask me again.if i then again confirm,then please let me fly free...

I think its important that people ask them self before this could happen,and arrenge how they want it to work.

I think its a BAD ide that people that didnt take thouse thourght before they went there,sorry you must have given your oppinion before you go "downhill".

I think its up to human them self if they want to live or not,but it must NEVER be the easy way out.

I cant tell how it should work in pracsis,as my solution anit perfect either.But atleast i did think about it and told people arround me what i have in mind before such a action might take place..

I dont know who should do it(ie kill me),im sure if i can do it myself then i probaly shouldnt die... I cant ask any to do such,but i can tell my whishes and hope that one person has the power to follow my whish...

Ohh and no cry party for me.. when im gone im gone,move on and live the rest of the life the best way you can,becours i did as i were alive

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[narcimund 0]

Quote

Please read "Slouching Towards Gomorrah" by Robert Bork.

Then when you're done, read "Skipping Towards Gomorrah" by Dan Savage! MUCH more fun.

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[Skyrad 0]

Its such a difficult subject, my natural inclination is to say no to euthanasia but having said that I've worked with patients that have begged me to kill them (No I didn't). I've seen people resuscitated that I don't think should have been, and to be truthfull I've seen quite a few people that would have been better off dead. Generaly among medical profesionals in the UK the general consensus is in faviour of euthanasia and this is true of nurses as well. I've known patients telling me how much they genuinly wish to die, then met the same patient a few months later and they're happy and laughing. Its a bit of a concern.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Amazon 7]

I was living in Oregon when we PASSED a Right to Die initiative. Since then the government and religeous groups have incessantly opposed it in court to challenge what I as a rational human being think is a necessary right.
I truthfully do not think it is abused in any way. When it comes time in someones life and they have a horrible painful existence and wish to leave I do not think the government and other people should force them to stay and suffer.

[Skyrad 0]

Fair point, but how do you feel about a persons right to die in cases where there is no life threatening illness? Say arthritis? Can be very painful but won't lead to death. Once the right to die is established then is it a right for all or just for some?

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Faber 0]

Quote

Fair point, but how do you feel about a persons right to die in cases where there is no life threatening illness? Say arthritis? Can be very painful but won't lead to death. Once the right to die is established then is it a right for all or just for some?

your so right,i agree in all you said in both above posts..

As i said i dont know how it should work,and who to say when a life has no meaning any more(medical).

I respect you for your job,not one i would take...

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[Amazon 7]

Quote

Fair point, but how do you feel about a persons right to die in cases where there is no life threatening illness? Say arthritis? Can be very painful but won't lead to death. Once the right to die is established then is it a right for all or just for some?

One of the primary things opponents bring up is that with pain relieving drugs they can negate the pain.. Having a LITTLE personal knowledge about pain...which I have learned to live with... is even with really good drugs it never really goes away. You can dull it but overall the medications dull YOU..Its a quality of life that slips away when all you can do is EXIST. I would hope when I no longer can enjoy life and if I was in severe pain that could only be dulled by harsh drugs then the medical profession could help me to pass in a dignified manner rather than FORCING me to exist in such a state.

This is not an attack on our medical profession but in some cases it seems that its more important to keep the suffering person there and use drastic measures to keep them alive.. so that the persons every resource can be drained.

For those without any resources.. what is the reality of their existence when they reach the end of their days.

What sort of quality of life for someone incapable of taking care of themselves are we willing to pay for as a whole.

[winsor 186]

Keeping suicide illegal makes sense. People will think twice about killing themselves if they know they will get in trouble if they do.


Blue skies,

Winsor

[Amazon 7]

Quote

Keeping suicide illegal makes sense. People will think twice about killing themselves if they know they will get in trouble if they do.

Hmm.... Jail the dead

[Faber 0]

Quote

In Reply To
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Keeping suicide illegal makes sense. People will think twice about killing themselves if they know they will get in trouble if they do.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Hmm.... Jail the dead

actualy he is right.. that law does keep people alive(but yes its nuts...)

However Euthanasia aint the same as suicide....

suicide is a (usaly) health person,who pshy. cant figure how to move on in life,there fore chouse to end it..

Euthanasia should only be considderet for people who will have to live in survir pain(talking real pain which often leeds to death any way),so disabled that they dont even know they exist(brain dead is a good word i think),or people that are so close to die as they only wait for the right time(estimated by a doc or 5....)

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[Luv2Fall 0]

I have such mixed feelings regarding this subject. Having said that, I truly sympathize with those wanting to go......suffering is a horrible thing......maybe we shouldn't second guess their desire/right.

[pleifer 0]

I learned in my high school economics class an old law in New York..... I think.... that stated that anyone who commited suicide would have their naked body put on display....
acording to this the women were so modist they would not kill themselfs because they did not want there naked body paraded though the streets...
don't know where you could find more info to prove it..... and I don't know how he worked this into a econ lecture.... (he was an awesome but wierd teach) but taken with a grain of salt interesting idea...

_________________________________________
The Angel of Duh has spoke

[Michele 1]

I am so off on a tangent I can't contribute to the original questions. And thus I shall keep my comment brief so as to not hijack this thread...

Quote

suicide is a (usaly) health person,who pshy. cant figure how to move on in life,there fore chouse to end it..

Quote

keeping suicide illegal makes sense

Quote

I learned in my high school economics class an old law in New York..... I think.... that stated that anyone who commited suicide would have their naked body put on display....

Suicide is not euthanasia. Suicide is not committed by healthy people. Suicide is not decided because they can't "move on." Suicide is a result of a mental illness, and should be considered as the end result of such an untreated illness, not unlike untreated diabetes, untreated cancer, or untreated tuberculosis.

I now slouch off towards the kitchen...after dinner, I shall skip back...

Ciels-
Michele

(edited to accurately quote Winsor....)

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[pleifer 0]

Now we are talking semantics

_________________________________________
The Angel of Duh has spoke

[themitchyone 0]

IMO, if someone has a terminal illness, euthanasia should be allowed. There is concern about abuse, I know, but realistically, euthanasia already happens, for example they just steadily increase the morphine. Terminal sedation is already allowed (at least here in CA. Someone I loved went peacefully this way). Terminal sedation and euthanasia aren't the same thing, but they both allow a person to be relieved of pain, to let go.

"If the Bible has taught us nothing else, and it hasn't, it's that girls should stick to girl's sports such as hot oil wrestling and foxy boxing." - Homer Simpson

[Michele 1]

Quote

Now we are talking semantics

And perhaps that's the argument...

What is euthanasia?

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[b1jercat 0]

Terminal sedation and euthanasia aren't the same thing, but they both allow a person to be relieved of pain, to let go.


People who are involved in hospice might say they are one and the same for all intents and purposes.

In Oregon 42 lethal prescriptions have been written since the death with dignity act and about 30 have been used. The people who are allowed prescriptions are generally pretty squared away. I believe it's a good thing for those who would choose it and no harm no foul to the rest of us.


blue skies

jerry

[rfaberh 0]

I have heard this argument many times. Some say that a patient who asks to be killed is crying for help because she/he doesn´t want do die at all.
Some say that some patients might think that they are a trouble for the family and the hospital! But I think if euthanasia should be legally it should not be an offer, but a option if the dying patient himself express the wish of euthanasia. After the wish the patient should be comfirmed with a psychologist, a priest and two doctors - those will decide if it´s a real wish of an earlier death.

[rfaberh 0]

Very interesting point. I think it´s the most difficult question as you also say. Many times patient are keept alive eventhough they are braindead, we save earlyborned babies but let 7 month capable of living babies die because they have some sort of defect.

I think if someone should have the option to get active euthanasia there should be some provisions. - the patient is dying and has only a month to live in and will suffer a very painfull death. Also see my second post to read some other provisions you could make if euthanasia should be legal.

[pleifer 0]

from etymonline.com
euthanasia- 1606 from greek euthanasia "an easy or happy death" from eu "good" + thanotos "death"
sense of "legally danctioned mercy killing" is first recorded in Eng. 1869

now for suicide
suicide - "deliberate killing of oneself," 1651, from Mod.L. suicidium "suicide," from L. sui "of oneself" (gen. of se "self") + -cidium "a killing." Probably an Eng. coinage; much maligned by Latin purists because it "may as well seem to participate of sus, a sow, as of the pronoun sui" [Phillips]. The meaning "person who kills himself deliberately" is from 1728; suicidal is from 1777. In Anglo-L., the term for "one who commits suicide" was felo-de-se, lit. "one guilty concerning himself."

take note I never said you were wrong
I just think it is interesting...
I have always used the two terms with out regard to the subtle sEmantics difference...
most of the debate here in oregon about this...
every one refers to it as "assisted suicide" I don't know maybe it has a better ring to it. but this term has been used interchangeable with euthanasia.

_________________________________________
The Angel of Duh has spoke

[Michele 1]

I know you never said I was wrong...but that was the implication. Which is why I was looking for a common definition...good to see you caught the difference.

How I view euthanasia v. suicide is:

I euthanize my pet - I make the decision, I take charge. And her owner, and as the one who cared agonizingly about letting her go, when it came time, I made the decision.

So, someone else makes the decision...or the decision is made as a team, between several folk.

Now, suicide is the by-product of an illness, rather than a rational, deliberate decision.

IMHO, if someone is diagnosed with an incurable illness, with the guarantee of a lot of pain and destruction of lifestyle, then it's their right to choose whether they travel that road, or get off the bus, with the full understanding of the ramifications and options (misdiagnoses, pain management, and so forth).

Suicide is not euthanasia...not a "happy death" whatsoever.

Anyway, I hear the sky calling, so I must answer...have a good one!

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[Skyrad 0]

I agree.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[rfaberh 0]

Euthanasia is assisted suicide. So when you say you " euthanize your pet" then it is not euthanasia as I understand it. Your dog has never requested to be killed and you have made the decision. Euthanasia as I talk about is when a patient is dying and asks to be killed. It´s the patients decision not the doctors, not the families and not the nurses decision.
I think you might talk about Non-voluntary euthanasia where a patient is killed without requesting it - here is it someone else who has made the desicion.

Euthanasia is Greek and means the good death - not a happy death (eu= good, thanatos=death). the
good death is a death without any pain. Many patients choose euthanasia as the last way out of pain and therefore it´s a good death for them.