Accuracy rig with Sabre 2 170?!

[nicsoew 0]

I have custom made rig for accuracy canopy 282. I would like to change canopies between accuracy and Sabre 2 170 on same rig. Some guys from my DZ said it will be ok, some said I can have problems.

What do you think?

[gowlerk 1,913]

nicsoew

I have custom made rig for accuracy canopy 282. I would like to change canopies between accuracy and Sabre 2 170 on same rig. Some guys from my DZ said it will be ok, some said I can have problems.

What do you think?

I think you should get another rig for your 170.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[raftman 12]

I think you should ask your rigger.

[nicsoew 0]

He said I could have problems. Thing is my rig is deeper than average rig because accuracy canopy is bigger - deeper when packed into bag. But width is almost the same.

And yes I know I could get rig for 170 but I would be more happy to spend money on jumps/wind tunnel.

[pchapman 261]

This sounds like a troll but probably isn't??

You're talking about canopies that may have a volume of 880 cu. in. versus 450 cu. in., or something in that range, a two to one volume range. That's not just a case of adjusting the closing loop a little. Even for a rig with a long loop starting from the backpad or reserve container wall, that sounds a bit extreme.

You might build pillows into a large d-bag (that will fit the container) to hold the small canopy. As long as you aren't worried about a little extra drag from a bulky d-bag under canopy.

Or install a removable pillow in the rig's main tray (and get a bag for the Sabre that will fit the new wide but thin shape). Different designs are possible, where a firm foam pillow can be removed. It can involve a pouch filling the area against the reserve tray, or one mainly along the backpad. I've done both.

In any case if one is jumping something for "regular jumping" and not just occasional solos, one wants the container to be well filled with a tight loop and filling the corners so that there are no issues with tightness of the BOC bridle stowage.

I know that for a small rig one can build a velcro-on main container to take a larger canopy, that fits over the empty regular main container. That's been done with a regular rig to hold an accuracy canopy. But I've never seen anyone do the reverse, build a small container to attach over top of a big container. That would be messier, hiding something big behind something small.

[nicsoew 0]

No I am not a troll.

And thank you for great reply.
I like this solution: "Or install a removable pillow in the rig's main tray (and get a bag for the Sabre that will fit the new wide but thin shape)."

[nicsoew 0]

One more thing, do you have pictures of some solutions?

[pchapman 261]

I have no convenient pics at the moment, but have included a sketch.

Type 1 is the pillow against the the reserve tray idea. The flap is sewn to the backpad and near the top of the reserve tray (missing the AAD pouch). As drawn, the flap is divided into two sections to allow for the closing loop from the backpad or reserve tray.

I also added small patches of velcro so when the foam is pulled out from under the flaps, the flaps stick down in place.

This system works for my main rig so I can use a rig designed for a 150 with something as small as a non-crossbraced 75.

I have used different foams. One doesn't want something as stiff and brittle as styrofoam or insulation board foam, nor as squishy or heavy as some mattress foam. I've used layers of thick camping mat foam glued together, or somewhat stiff yet still flexible foam as seen in an attached pic, that is similar to what is used for packing some electronics equipment. Had to go to a foam supplier for that.

Sewing through old rigs backpads is easy because of little padding. With newer rigs and thick padding it becomes messier -- one might need to unstitch a large part of the backpad. Otherwise one will have to hand tack the pillow into place. Modern or small rigs are stiffer, making it tougher to get the rig onto a sewing machine.

In my diagram, Type 2 shows a pillow for the whole backpad area. Ive only done this for 1" thick pillows; it would get a little messier the thicker the pillow. Can be made by wrapping the foam on top and bottom with one piece of material, fiddling the sides and corners, rather than trying to build sides separate from the top with proper corners. At the end that faces the bottom of the rig, I would leave an overlap of material unsewn (except at the ends) -- that leaves room to flex the overlap open and slide the pillow in and out.

Seams would be left sticking out at the sides of the pillow, or add tapes there for increased strength. That provides some width to sew or tack the pillow to the main tray. If one is tacking, one wants to do enough tacking points that risers or lines don't accidentally tuck underneath the pillow or catch under a corner.

As to who is allowed to do what rigging mods in your particular country, that's another matter!

[inline rig-pillow-designs-sketch-PChapman.jpg]
[inline foam_sample_as_for_rig_pillows.jpg]

[nicsoew 0]

Thank you very much. You saved me lots of money. I appreciate that. If we ever meet on some DZ you have beers as much as you can drink on me :)

[PhreeZone 15]

In the US you will need to get the original manufacturers approval for this type of a design as well as having a master rigger do the work since it will involve modifications to the backpad and to the reserve container - neither of which I believe will be granted approvals. Issues with aftermarket modifications like this can include things like lines snagging on the corners of the pillows ripping the pillow out or causing entanglements, excess wear being generated to the container due to Velcro wearing against the flaps and a few other things like the foam compressing more than expected and then causing too little tension on the closing loop and then premature openings/horseshoes/etc.

The work to do this may be as involved as opening up all the seams on the rig to be able to get to the locations to sew those velcro patches on and then having to reclose them. At the least you will need to have the bottom seam on the packpad opened as well as the reserve flaps unless the rigger decides to remove the AAD pocket in which the reinstall will need the flaps opened. Overall this work will then need approved via the rig maker, the FAA and the master rigger will end up charging you 300-500 dollars for all the work if it can even be done in the first place.

Call the maker of your rig to see if they would allow this modification.

Overall this would be a Really Bad Idea ™ in my opinion.

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[IJskonijn 38]

I jump a Lightning 160 in the same rig as my Silhouette 190. The difference is actually so small I don't even bother switching loops (easier than lengthening/shortening it every time I switch canopies). Most CRW-canopies get nowhere near as large as accuracy canopies, even though Lightnings have a reputation for packing big.

In general though, if I cannot get a proper fit by adjusting my closing loop (Vector II V5, so it's attached to the reserve container bottom), I'd be very Very VERY hesitant to do it before talking it thoroughly through with my rigger.

[riggerrob 558]

....... master rigger will end up charging you 300-500 dollars for all the work if it can even be done in the first place.

Call the maker of your rig to see if they would allow this modification.

Overall this would be a Really Bad Idea ™ in my opinion.

...........................................

Agreed.
While working at Rigging Innovations, I only cut-down one old Talon. Even with factory drawings, it was still a slow and awkward job. By the time I cut-down the container, replaced a frayed diagonal back-strap, etc. the job cost as much as a second-hand Talon originally sized for a Sabre 170.

[nicsoew 0]

Im gonna buy another system with main and reserve. Too much this and that regarding my original question.

I dislike jumping high altitudes with parafoil.

[nicsoew 0]

My rigger said....don't do it. Get yourself another system with main and reserve.
I guess I will do that.
I wanted to buy WS and do some mods on my motorcycle...not gonna happen now.