Pammi 0 #1 March 12, 2001 I just read about the poor girl who died in Indiana. Am I incorrect that this is the second time that an FXC AAD didn't fire as it should've??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zennie 0 #2 March 12, 2001 Well, if the reports out of Louisiana are true (that the AAD was on when he left the plane), that would be the case.Maybe I'm spoiled, but at my DZ all student/rental equipment is a Javelin/PD main/PD reserve/Cypres configuration. I'm sure glad they didn't cut corners!------------Blue Skies!Zennie Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cyberskydive 0 #3 March 12, 2001 I've heard of a few before, but I dont know ALL he facts, I've also heard of/seen(one) fire prematurtely. Like I said I dont know all the facts, but unless I'm mistaken they are not really popular :) D.Chisolm C-28534[email protected]http://www.sunraydesigns.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Craig 0 #4 March 12, 2001 I may be incorrect, but with the first fatality the FXC was observed to be in the off position when an inspection was made of the jumpers gear after the accident. What I was always told about FXC's is that they had a tendancy to fire higher, in some cases 1,000 feet higher than what they were set at. I guess the next real question could be, had the AAD been tested as required by the manufacturer and was it functioning properly and rigged properly?Craig Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zennie 0 #5 March 12, 2001 QuoteI may be incorrect, but with the first fatality the FXC was observed to be in the off position when an inspection was made of the jumpers gear after the accident.You are correct. The AAD was found to be off on the ground (so I've heard). But the story I've heard was that the AAD was inspected on the plane and found to be in the on position. So there's a big debate as to what happened between the plane inspection and the ground inspection.In any event, it didn't deploy and that's just not a good thing -- regardless of fault.------------Blue Skies!Zennie Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miked10270 0 #6 March 12, 2001 Hi there,This may seem a somewhat cruel view of this incident, but please bear with me.The FXC12000, "J" modded IS a largely reliable AAD, particularly suitable for students (NOT for the experienced).That said, it is a mechanical backup, and like all things mechanical, it is subject to wear & possibly breakdown! In short, it's NOT GUARANTEED TO WORK!2 points strike me from this:1; The Cypres IS a FAR MORE RELIABLE AAD! Yes, far more expensive, but electronic, not mechanical.2; THE ONLY WAY TO ACTIVATE YOUR RESERVE IS TO PULL YOUR RESERVE HANDLE! Please, PLEASE... Don't wait for an AAD to fire, you could wait for the rest of your life for the "box" to work!While my heart goes out to the poor girl and her family, I am also reminded that skydiving is a VERY "Darwinian" sport. I simply can't accept that this death was caused purely by the failure of a backup device. Was the reserve handle pulled?Just my $0.02,Mike D10270.PS. As for FXCs firing prematurely... there are 2 potential reasons for this:1; The FXC activates at a relatively low descent rate, about 30ft/sec if I remember correctly and "at some point" +/- 750ft of it's set activation heght.2; The activation height MUST be set or adjusted with the "jump/safe" knob FULLY turned to the "jump" position. If the knob isn't fully set then the activation height indicator needle will move down and will underread the set activation height. If it is then adjusted, you are setting the height higher than what is shown. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Craig 0 #7 March 12, 2001 QuoteWhile my heart goes out to the poor girl and her family, I am also reminded that skydiving is a VERY"Darwinian" sport. I simply can't accept that this death was caused purely by the failure of a backup device.Was the reserve handle pulled?I couldn't agree more.It's sad to hear of anyone going in, especially these two jumpers who were very new to the sport and was preventable. Bottom line, practice your procedures! You never know when you will get tested on them.Craig Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zennie 0 #8 March 12, 2001 QuoteBottom line, practice your procedures! You never know when you will get tested on them.Amen!------------Blue Skies!Zennie Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pammi 0 #9 March 12, 2001 You're exactly right Mike. It is what it is...a back-up device not to be relied upon. The scary thing about skydiving to me is that some people have to find out in the worst way possible that they are not the kind to be able to handle a bad situation adeptly. (trying to think of the kindest way of expressing this) Something bad has to happen before you'll know if you can keep your head for some people...or they may think they will, but then don't! I guess it's a sport where you really need to know yourself and your capabilities well?Pam Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lazerq3 0 #10 March 12, 2001 Not trying to take anything away from this post but Speaking of diff types of AADs If yu look in the classified section there is a Sentinel MK-2000 for sale for 150$. What is that all about. Anyone ever heard of this. is this like an after market of the fxc??? just wondering Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skreamer 1 #11 March 12, 2001 Hi PammiYou make a very interesting point there. Here is my $0,02 (£0,01) worth : if you are too scared to pack your own parachute, but only want to continue skydiving as long as somebody else is packing for you, then maybe you shouldn't be skydiving. I learnt to pack the end of last week when the weather turned to shit, and got to go out and jump my own pack job (my last jump at Skydance). I'll tell you what, I got a little nervous all over again, but forced myself to do some backloops and not dump high. When you know you are taking responsibility for the entire skydive (including pack), you take your safety drills VERY seriously.To any other newcomers out there, please consider my advice : learn to pack as soon as possible and then go out and make an ape-jump with your first pack job. You will be forced to ask yourself some very serious 'what if...' questions and won't be able to hide under the assumption 'But, my main will always open and fly fine...'.Learning to pack also gives you a thorough understanding of the deployment process, so you should be better able to identify a true malfunction timeously.I have noticed that fatalities seem to be classed in two categories :1.)Student jumpers bouncing (often never going for their reserve)2.)Experienced jumpers getting complacent/over-confident and hooking it in.I have confidence in my ability to avoid the first situation and hope my ego never leads me to the second.Anyway, these are my thoughts./s Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 259 #12 March 13, 2001 QuoteIf yu look in the classified section there is a Sentinel MK-2000 for sale for 150$. What is that all about. Anyone ever heard of this. is this like an after market of the fxc??? The Sentinel was the product of Steve Snyder (Altimaster, ParaFlite...), and if I remember my skydiving history correctly it came out before the FXC. About the same in terms of reliability. Personally today I would buy one only for historical value.Anyone here ever see a KAP-3?pull and flare,lisa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grogs 0 #13 March 13, 2001 QuoteI have noticed that fatalities seem to be classed in two categories :1.)Student jumpers bouncing (often never going for their reserve)2.)Experienced jumpers getting complacent/over-confident and hooking it in.I have confidence in my ability to avoid the first situation and hope my ego never leads me to the second.I think the stastics at safety day yesterday were something like this: Of 30 fatalities, 14 were jumpers with <200 jumps (8 <100, 6 100-200) and 8 were 1000+ so what you said is pretty accurate. I guess I need to hurry up and get to 200 so I'll be safe for a while. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cyberskydive 0 #14 March 13, 2001 On Sentinals - I did ALL of my AFF jumps and some of my first solos with Sentinals. They were all maintaned per manufacturere recommendations. I have never had any problems with them, and I have only witnessed one premature deployment since I first started jumping in 96. So my experience with them is limited to the last 4 or 5 years and there use has pretty much faded out, being replaced with the cypres, but to me they seem to be alot more reliable than the FXC AAD.D.Chisolm C-28534[email protected]http://www.sunraydesigns.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deleted 0 #15 March 13, 2001 Sentinels came out in the early 60's. At that time they would open the reserve container at the preset altitude (1,000 I think) unless the jumper turned them off.The FXC is a much later AAD.I've trained students with both and have had (and heard of few problems). All are generally very reliable with proper maintenance and operation.I've got a KAP-3 which is probably the all time most popular AAD every manufactured.They were used by all Iron curtain countries and were manufactured for many years. They were so reliable that the Soviets never used static lines but just set the timer for 3 seconds.There was also an option for altitude/speed activation.They are big bulky and nearly indestructible.Blue Skies,John T. Brasher D-5166 AFF-I S&TA Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
