Pilots and Airplane Maintenance

[flyingferret 0]

I am writing this letter after the recent crash of a plane at Skydive Texas. A lot of thoughts have gone through my head in the 24 hours since the crash, and I would like to share a few. My thoughts were not caused by the recent crash, however it was very close to home and brought my th oughts into focus. In the 9 months that I have been involved in skydiving, I have been impressed with the safety precautions of the sport. I have often said that the jump was safer than the drive to the airport. During these 9 months I have read everything I could find about skydiving, including the incident reports. I have read about tragedy caused by equipment, poor training, etc. However these mishaps have always reminded me the value of training and preparation.

After the unfortunate crash yesterday, I began to seriously doubt some of the safety issues surrounding our sport. The past year has seen quite a few injuries and deaths connected to skydiving, but caused by aviation. When an airplane I had jumped before went down, I really started to think about this. Your equipment can be pristine, your harness training can be recent, but if a mechanic cuts a corner or a part fails you may be injured or killed by a danger totally beyond your control. Last night as I considered this, I even thought about taking a break from jumping for a while. I questioned how a jumper would know if an airplane is meticulously maintained. Sometimes on a small DZ this is possible, but far more frequently it is not. When you ride that plane you put your faith and your life in the hands of the DZ owner, the mechanic, and the pilot. I began to question some of those hands.
After 24 hours the perspective has come full circle. I am uninformed concerning the regulations of aircraft maintenance and am still aware of cases in the news where faulty maintenance caused injuries and fatalities. I am unsure how we as a community should address those cases, but in my mind they must be considered. However, as the story solidifies surrounding the crash at Skydive Texas, I am once again reminded of the skill of professionals in our sport. My thanks to every pilot I have flown with. The r ecent crash now seems an excellent example of a potentially tragic situation controlled by God’s help and a very capable pilot. I will continue to jump and definitely use seatbelts and helmets on every load. While I may choose my jump planes a bit more carefully, any plane flown by Tom Bishop is on that list.
Prayers to all those injured, and excellent flying Tom.
Malachi Russler
A-36401

[wingnut 0]

let me shed a little insite into the aircraft maint. world. please take this as just my view, i'm only a fighter airplane mechanic with the u.s. air force. when a mechanic does some work on a aircraft he undertakes the responsibility that what he fixes will keep the plane in the air, hence keeping the people alive and well. plus if a mechanic gets cought by the FFA they loose thier liscence and thier way to make money. in my thinking it is mostly the dz operator that will let the scheduled maint go longer than req. and not the mechanic that will perform shody maintanance. we have a little saying here about maintanance......"when you kick the tires and light the fires it's to late to wonder if you did it right."......but you never know there is aleways a shody mechanic out there, hopefully he just never works on your dz's plane! there are certain risks you take upon when skydiving and it's just not the skydive but also the ride to the dz and inthe plane that you have to think about.
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[Dirtsucks 0]

Just my personal feelings here. When I was doing my AFF, I was really nervous about jumping, but I was never actually scared of dying, that thought, strangely enough, never really entered my mind. I took my training seriously and really tried to do everything I could to be prepared to handle every emergency that could happen. I could go on and on here, but I’ll get to the point. What really scared the hell out of me was the ride up. Especially after reading about jumpers dying in plane crashes. I know it sounds weird, I’m a pilot and am used to being in an airplane, but it was the fear that if something happened, I wasn’t in control. All I could do, (assuming I couldn’t exit) is just sit there and hold on for the ride. To tell you the truth, when I jumped, I just assumed that the aircraft were safe. I never did anything to make sure the aircraft and pilot were competent to keep my ass alive. When I start skydiving again, I just hope I remember this, it’s easy to forget when you’re shitting bricks about the fact that you’re going to jump out of an airplane 2 miles up in the sky. But I feel really sad when I hear about jumpers dying in a jump plane – we all train very hard to keep ourselves safe while jumping, but when something goes wrong in the jump plane, it’s like they didn’t even have a chance to put those hard earned skills to use. I’m very new to this sport, but I just wanted to add my feelings here.
Josh

[freaksister 0]

I read Malachi's letter this morning before he posted it, and as I said then, I think its a great note.
Let's just make sure it is clear however, that so far as we know, the Skydive TX crash was not caused by an aircraft malfunction. It was turbulence. Just a reminder that sometimes there are things we have no control over that are a danger to us in the sky. That is what happened to John Matthews.
I know the FAA will take forever declaring the cause of the crash, but as far as I know, nobody is refuting the turbulence explanation.
Sis
"What we're all really seeking is something where we can feel the rapture of being alive."J.Campbell

[propblast 0]

Dirtsucks,
Ive got a friend who is a pilot and have talked to others as well. It seems to be a common feeling amongst pilots that they need to be in control(this isnt a bad thing in my mind it means they are confident in thier skills). The way it was put to me is every pilot thinks himself the best pilot he knows and naturaly this makes him want to be in control.
-e

[Deleted 0]

Hey Sis (and everyone else)
If the letter was not clear, and I think it was, I in NO way whatsoever wanted to link maintenance to the Skydive Texas' crash. As I had jumped their plane, it just made methink more than most accidents. There are plenty of other aircraft that have gone down because of negligence. BUT that plane was not one of them. As I said at the end of the email, I will fly on Tom's load anyday.
As it has been pointed out, people don't want to talk about the depressing stuff....so let's go back to sex...something that will certainly make us all safer jumpers, right? whatever.
Malachi

[FreeflyPlaymate 0]

I was very uncertain whether or not to post anything on this one. There's very few people who know what I am talking about when it comes to that...
Plane safety, maintaince, proper inspections... that's a very tough subject. When an accident happens, we want answers, we want someone to blame, or something to blame. Saying that it is human error isn't a good enough reason for anyone...human error is why I have to live with a wounded heart?...I don't think anyone could justify losing someone...no one could give me an answer and for me to say, oh well ok, it's all better now. If we need something to blame, blame life. As soon as we are born we are on our way to dying again....the point isn't dying though, it's what we do and make of our lives. Everything we do we put ourslves in jeopardy...yes we risk life in everything we do. Be it walking down the street or flying in a jump plane to altitude. There will never be a perfect plane, a perfect inspection, a perfect engine, it's not perfect because we're humans. There will always be that very rare percentage of error. YES so we should do everything in our power to keep that as narrow as possible, yes we should have tougher, more strict rules on airplane safety and maintaince. But there's some things that no matter how meticulious inspections get, there will never be a perfect plane. The reason why we don't do everything in our power to ensure safety is because it would cost alot more, I mean if you want the plane inspected everyday, then fork out the dough but it still can't save you...that plane could still go down. NASA isn't even perfect I mean nothing we do is...and I feel like crap saying that, not being perfect isn't good enough for souls who have been lost in this sport. I believe wholeheartedly that there should be tough standards, but at the same time, I continue to jump and will do so, and I know what I am committing to each and every time
**BLUE ONES**
BITE ME.... :P

[Dutchboy 0]

The pilot is responsible for the safety of the flight, including insuring that the plane is in good condition. All jump planes must be disassembled and inspected anually and every 100 hours of operation (in the USA).
Think of it this way. The pilot would be a total idiot to fly an unsafe plane. He has to fly it both up and down. Given that 30% of aircraft accidents occur on landing he is at greater risk than the rest of you.
I have to say that my home DZ (Skydive Atlanta in Thomaston, GA) is extremely safety cautious. I think that the fact that the chief pilot is also the DZO contributes to this. Mike will ground a plane faster than anyone else I know for minor problems. He has to make the round trips and it's the reputation of his DZ on the line if there is an accident.
In the end there is nothing you can do to guarantee a safe flight. Some times 'shit happens'. As skydivers our exposure from a ride up to altitude is pretty minimal.
At some level you need to trust the pilot. How many of us know enough about airplanes to identify potential problems with the aircraft anyway? If you trust your pilot you should be able to sit back and enjoy the ride.

[Aviatrr 0]

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The pilot is responsible for the safety of the flight, including insuring that the plane is in good condition. All jump planes must be disassembled and inspected anually and every 100 hours of operation (in the USA).

Whoa, wait a second.. I know what you mean here, but most people probably don't.. The annual inspection is a pretty thorough inspection, but the 100 hour is not.. The 100 hour is pretty much an oil and filter change, check under some inspection panels, and check the brakes/tires.. All depends on the type of aircraft..
Mechanics are not perfect.. This past week, I picked up my airplane(a corporate jet that I Captain) from a maintenance base.. Whenever we pick up an airplane out of maintenance it receives an especially thorough pre-flight.. Mechanics have been known to leave tools, rags, etc in areas where they could certainly cause a problem.. Mechanics have been known to forget to finish a job they started.. Well, when we picked my airplane up, we found a rag sitting on top of some of the control cables, right next to the pulleys.. If we had not found it, it probably would have jammed the controls when the rag got into the pulleys..

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Think of it this way. The pilot would be a total idiot to fly an unsafe plane. He has to fly it both up and down. Given that 30% of aircraft accidents occur on landing he is at greater risk than the rest of you.

Agreed.. The problem, however, is that we can't always check everything.. When was the last time you checked to make sure the wing bolts were torqued properly? In a lot of small airplanes, there are only 4 bolts holding the wings on.. Do you pull the cowling off on a piston to check the coil/spark plug wires? How about the 'p' lead? Ever check the 3rd(and most important) Fetzer valve in a jet engine?
There's a lot we, as pilots, can do to help ensure the safety, but we cannot do it all.. Proper training helps to minimize the risk..
There are certain DZ's that I will not jump at because of their maintenance and/or pilot experience or training.. I don't want to get into a jump plane with a 300 hour wonder pilot with the ink still wet on his commercial ticket.. Granted, I am a major pain in the ass when it comes to jump pilots - I'm sure it has something to do with the fact that I am more experienced than most jump pilots out there, and it worries me a bit.. It's a normal trait in pilots to be a bit worried when they are not the one at the controls.. Quite honestly, the plane ride to altitude is what I worry about most when skydiving.. Even when I am riding with a very experienced pilot who is a friend of mine, I am nervous.. It's the only part of the skydive where I am not in total control.. I never worry when I am the one up front, not one bit.. Like I said, a common trait in pilots..
Mike
Oh, and as I'm sure(well, I hope) most of you know, I made up the part about the 3rd Fetzer valve......everybody knows there's only 2 per engine..

[Aviatrr 0]

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plus if a mechanic gets cought by the FFA they loose thier liscence and thier way to make money.

Hey, Wingnut....what do the Future Farmers of America have to do with aircraft maintenance? Couldn't pass it up..
Mike

[wingnut 0]

okay, okay,......i know it's not the first time i've done that here. it's just that i long to be back in 4-h and the ffa is the closest i can get to it, plus it looks so much like a typing slip up i can't pas it up....also i bet farmer mcnasty wouldn't like it if a wing flew of in flight and killed his fav. sheep, then what would he do on those long dark, cold, winter nights? lol
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[drosenberg 0]

flyingferret , I think your concerns are real and you should ask questions about the plane in any DZ you intend to jump and don’t really know.
Here in Israel we had a crash that killed 4 and injured several others 2 years ago, the DZ involved has closed and a new one with new ownership and management and of course a new plane opened a year later (that’s where I jump).
The accident happened before I started skydiving so I never jumped at the old DZ, but from what I hear there was some lack of discipline with regards to safety issues.
So, I really think you should be able to ask any question you want that will help you feel better at the DZ.
Blue Skies and Smooth Openings
David

[Dutchboy 0]

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There are certain DZ's that I will not jump at because of their maintenance and/or pilot experience or training.. I don't want to get into a jump
plane with a 300 hour wonder pilot with the ink still wet on his commercial ticket.. Granted, I am a major pain in the ass when it comes to
jump pilots

Something to keep in mind is that the 300 hr wonder is probably safer than the 1000 hour pilot. If you look at the statistics you'll see that accident rates go down after 100 hours and then start to creap back up as people get more experience and complacent/cocky. Hours also are not a good measure of a pilot's skill. Many hours of cross country flight aren't going to hone skills as well as practicing more challenging things. Of course, there is also natural ability that comes into play.

[Aviatrr 0]

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Something to keep in mind is that the 300 hr wonder is probably safer than the 1000 hour pilot. If you look at the statistics you'll see that accident rates go down after 100 hours and then start to creap back up as people get more experience and complacent/cocky. Hours also are not a good measure of a pilot's skill. Many hours of cross country flight aren't going to hone skills as well as practicing more challenging things. Of course, there is also natural ability that comes into play.

Safer at 300 hours than at 1000? Possibly.. Sometimes.. More thorough on pre-flight items, checklist use, etc.? Unfortunately, most of the time the answer to that one is yes.. Pilots that are not flying in a very structured environment - such as 121 - often get complacent and begin omitting things from their routine.. On that part I will agree..
Do you feel that a 300 hour pilot is better suited to handle a bad situation - such as what happened recently in TX - than a high time pilot? Ok, maybe not a high time pilot, let's say a 1000 hour pilot.. As you said, natural ability comes into play here(as well as type of experience, training, and currency), but overall, I believe the more experienced pilot is better suited to handle the situation..
If you are doing a Tandem jump, who would you rather have as your TM - a new TM with very little experience, or a veteran TM with a lot more experience?
Yes, pilots get complacent and cocky - just as everybody else does.. Remember, though.. It's our butts up there, too.. If nobody in the airplane survives, that means us too..
Mike

[diverdriver 5]

"Whoa, wait a second.. I know what you mean here, but most people probably don't.. The annual inspection is a pretty thorough inspection, but the 100 hour is not.. The 100 hour is pretty much an oil and filter change, check under some inspection panels, and check the brakes/tires.. All depends on the type of aircraft.."
Well, I have to disagree on this inspection issue. A 100 hour inspection AND an annual inspection are the EXACT same inspection. It is WHO can sign is off that is different. A "100 hour" inspection can be signed off by any A&P mechanic. But, in order to sign off an annual inspection you have to have an IA (Inspection Authority) rating. I'm guessing you might be thinking of the difference in a Heavy "D" check on your jet.
Now, that's not to say that the mechanics that you know doing 100 hour inspections aren't blowing off what they should be doing on the aircraft and it seems that an annual is more thorough. But as far as the legalities of it the inspection should be identical.
Chris Schindler
D-19012
ATP Canadair RJ/CFII
1998 246-way Record Lead Pilot

[MC208B 0]

Actually, an annual inspection and a 100 hour inspection on US registered aircraft encompass the same "scope and detail"per the FAR's. Dfference is an A&P licensed mechanic can sign off a 100 hour while the annual requires and IA/repair station signoff. I know about these things, been an A&P for 20 years. As for mechanics leaving tools, rags etc. in the A/C, yep, it happens. As does pilots doing "controlled decents into the ground". Nothing is guarenteed in life.

[MC208B 0]

oooppppsssss......didn't see your post Chris! Mine is rather redundant now.....By the way Mike, are you perhaps thinking of magnetos when you mentioned "coils"?!?