First rig: Vector 3 vs Icon neXgen Pro

[mxk 1]

Searched the forums and couldn't find too many reviews of the Icon's neXgen Pro container. Could anyone offer an opinion on whether there are any disadvantages to the Icon when compared with the Vector?

Since I'm still renting student rigs, the 30+ week delivery time for the Vector is a bit of a problem. I'm also not a big fan of the AAD remote location or the bottom tuck tab on the reserve flap that keeps popping out on some rigs. These are minor issues, but I'm curious how the Icon compares. I've pretty much eliminated all other containers from consideration. I first filtered out any container that didn't have the skyhook. After that, I narrowed the selection from Vector, Icon, Javelin, and Wings based on features, price, and recommendations of some of my instructors.

For canopies, I'm going with the Spectre 230 main with dacron lines and Optimum 235 reserve (though if I can fit the Optimum 253 in, I'll be even happier with that). My loading will be 1.07 on the Spectre. The eventual goal, once I'm past 200 jumps (currently at ~75), is to try the wingsuit, so I would also like to know if one container might be better for that purpose than the other.

[riggerrob 558]

What do you mean by "AAD remote location?"

[riggerrob 558]

If you phone around to various dealers you should be able to buy a production slot much less than 30 weeks in the future. Also, if you are not too fussy about colours, you can buy a stock rig off the shelf now.

[mxk 1]

riggerrob

What do you mean by "AAD remote location?"

Can't see it without opening the reserve flap on the non-student versions. I prefer the window option were you can quickly glance at it just before putting the rig on. As I said, it's a minor annoyance.

riggerrob

If you phone around to various dealers you should be able to buy a production slot much less than 30 weeks in the future. Also, if you are not too fussy about colours, you can buy a stock rig off the shelf now.

Already explored both options. A dealer told me that UPT doesn't let him use the production slots for non-student/tandem rigs anymore. As for stock rigs, we had a UPT representative at the Skydive Orange Boogie this past weekend who said that the stock production runs are infrequent and are sold out within minutes of the announcement to the dealers.

[riggerrob 558]

mxk

***What do you mean by "AAD remote location?"

Can't see it without opening the reserve flap on the non-student versions. I prefer the window option were you can quickly glance at it just before putting the rig on. As I said, it's a minor annoyance.
...
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Funny!
Bill Booth's logic on that design was to force skydivers to look at their reserve pins once per day.
Hah!
Hah!

[snowcrash75 0]

Rob is right on the money here. It's wise to check your reserve pin before every jump, not just through convenient windows. As for flaps that come untucked, that's pretty common with rental gear (in my experience)...

I've only owned javelin and a couple vectors so I have nothing to say about aerodyne's containers, but I might make a third suggestion: buy whatever rig is safe and fits your needs today. If you can wait 30 weeks (I ordered my new one last November and it ships next week), Vector is a super container and they hold resale well. That said, I've been jumping for 12 years and this is my first new container. Since you are currently on rental gear, consider the fact that you may go through a couple downsizes over the next few seasons. .. buying a used rig that fits what you need today, you will most likely be able to resell it for what you put into it and even sometimes make a little profit when you move on. .. buying new from the factory is like buying a brand new car, you're going to take a hit in the wallet if you decide to sell it later.

Just something to consider, I hope my opinion helps a little. Honestly, add long as it fits, I'm sure you're going to be happy with any rig that isn't rental :-)

[strife 0]

If you order a new vector you can ask to have the AAD on the back pad as an option.

are you sure you want to order a new with that size canopies as you may be down a couple of sizes by the time you want to wingsuit.

[mxk 1]

strife

If you order a new vector you can ask to have the AAD on the back pad as an option.

Didn't know that, thanks for the tip.

strife

are you sure you want to order a new with that size canopies as you may be down a couple of sizes by the time you want to wingsuit.

Can't find anything used in the right size. In any case, I would prefer to have a reserve that is at least 230, which dictates the size of the container and the main. For the Icon the only option is I7, and for the Vector it will probably be V355 or V358. Those will fit a 210 main, but I'm not sure that I would want to downsize beyond 230. My progression starting with AFF has been 300, 280, 260, 240, and for the last few weekends I've demoed Pilot, Spectre, and Strom 230.

[shorehambeach 9]

Hi Mxk,

I waited til I got to 80 jumps before deciding on what to buy...had all the student gear...tried Spectre and then rented a Icon with a Pilot and never looked back. Opted to buy a new Icon NextGen and its been the best decision since I decided to start the sport. Container is superb and the Pilot gives me gentle on heading openings despite me being attached to it.... ! 100 + jumps on it now and I can see myself always using tis combination....

Have a look at the Pilot ZPX fabric as its 17% smaller so you might be able to get a smaller container.

I have the I5 with a Pilot 188ZPX so I can downsize to a 168 and then 150 with the same container.


Blue Skies.

[skez 0]

Most decent/common manufacturers a person buys first and uses they will think its the best etc coz it works and they havent died lol.....in saying that bill booth invented half the shit every type of container uses today...so upt has set the standards for skydiving in general...so why choose anything else

FTMC

[mxk 1]

shorehambeach

Hi Mxk,

I waited til I got to 80 jumps before deciding on what to buy...had all the student gear...tried Spectre and then rented a Icon with a Pilot and never looked back. Opted to buy a new Icon NextGen and its been the best decision since I decided to start the sport. Container is superb and the Pilot gives me gentle on heading openings despite me being attached to it.... ! 100 + jumps on it now and I can see myself always using tis combination....

What container did you use as a student? If you ever jumped with the Vector, I'd love to know what aspects of the Icon are better/same/worse.

What options did you get and how long did it take from order to delivery for your neXgen? Right now, there is just one review in the Gear section and it's about the delivery time rather than the container itself:

http://www.dropzone.com/gear/Detailed/935.html

shorehambeach

Have a look at the Pilot ZPX fabric as its 17% smaller so you might be able to get a smaller container.

I have the I5 with a Pilot 188ZPX so I can downsize to a 168 and then 150 with the same container.

I demoed the Pilot 230 ZPX and didn't really like it, especially the flare. I didn't have too much difficulty standing up the landings, but it did require me to flare relatively quickly all the way in a single motion, meaning that there wasn't much room for error. Someone at my dropzone made a suggestion to shorten the brake lines, but obviously I wasn't going to do that on a demo.

After flying the Pilot for two weekends, I switched to the Spectre and found myself hanging 6 ft above the ground after flaring it the same way on the first landing. Flaring it in two steps subsequently produced much better landings than the Pilot. Both were 230 @ 1.07 loading.

[mxk 1]

skez

Most decent/common manufacturers a person buys first and uses they will think its the best etc coz it works and they havent died lol.....in saying that bill booth invented half the shit every type of container uses today...so upt has set the standards for skydiving in general...so why choose anything else

If you already have a container, then sure. However, renting for 30+ weeks @ $100/day or $30/jump is a bit expensive. If I could find a used or stock Vector of the right size, I would probably get it.

Also, just to nitpick, being the first to come up with an idea doesn't necessarily mean that your implementation of that idea will be perfect. I imagine that most manufacturers look at UPT designs and try to develop their own small improvements. Aerodyne's miniforce rings are just one example, although in my case I'm going with standard rings and risers.

[skez 0]

mxk

***Most decent/common manufacturers a person buys first and uses they will think its the best etc coz it works and they havent died lol.....in saying that bill booth invented half the shit every type of container uses today...so upt has set the standards for skydiving in general...so why choose anything else

If you already have a container, then sure. However, renting for 30+ weeks @ $100/day or $30/jump is a bit expensive. If I could find a used or stock Vector of the right size, I would probably get it.

Also, just to nitpick, being the first to come up with an idea doesn't necessarily mean that your implementation of that idea will be perfect. I imagine that most manufacturers look at UPT designs and try to develop their own small improvements. Aerodyne's miniforce rings are just one example, although in my case I'm going with standard rings and risers.

It hasnt really been improved on....and Yes true the wait sucks...I bought a cheap vector2 to use while waiting for my new vector(still waiting).. just figured if im spending that much$ to go new might aswell get what I want and not go for my second choice due to wait time....this may not suit everyone ok

FTMC

[riggerrob 558]

...
I demoed the Pilot 230 ZPX and didn't really like it, especially the flare. I didn't have too much difficulty standing up the landings, but it did require me to flare relatively quickly all the way in a single motion, meaning that there wasn't much room for error. Someone at my dropzone made a suggestion to shorten the brake lines, but obviously I wasn't going to do that on a demo. ...

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May I suggest wrapping the steering line once around your hands to -temporarily - shorten the brake lines?
Do a few practice flares - above 2,000 feet - before committing to this new landing technique.

[mxk 1]

riggerrob

...
I demoed the Pilot 230 ZPX and didn't really like it, especially the flare. I didn't have too much difficulty standing up the landings, but it did require me to flare relatively quickly all the way in a single motion, meaning that there wasn't much room for error. Someone at my dropzone made a suggestion to shorten the brake lines, but obviously I wasn't going to do that on a demo. ...

..............................................................................................

May I suggest wrapping the steering line once around your hands to -temporarily - shorten the brake lines?
Do a few practice flares - above 2,000 feet - before committing to this new landing technique.

I might try that the next time I fly the Pilot, but the demo has been sent back already and I'm pretty much set on the Spectre. Are there any good reasons against it? The only one that I can think of is that it consistently took 1,000 ft to open. I would be happier if the snivel was just a tiny bit shorter, perhaps as on the Strom. Don't like Storm's steeper glide though

[shorehambeach 9]

Mxk,

I think a lot of it is just personal choice - If you didn't get on with the Pilot then stick with your gut instinct....

As far as flaring - it depends on the length of the brake lines as to where the flare appears - so you need to adjust your brake lines of the flare. I use a 2 stage flare initially on Pilot with the second stage just before I want it to stop and consistently get great landing in no wind or high wind etc etc

It took 4 months for the NexGen to arrive - well worth the wait.

Blue Skies.

[pchapman 261]

Has Aerodyne ever figured out tuck tabs, for the riser covers specifically?

Off the top of my head, that's the one thing that has visibly sucked the most about Icons I've seen over the last decade. They have tried hard on the rest of the design to go beyond the minimum necessary to have a sellable rig.

I have no idea if the nexgen is any different for tabs. There is a magnetic riser cover option, which would change things for those rigs.

The Icon reserve container design is bulgy at the top, while the riser covers extend too far towards the back for a rig that thickens in that area. So the aft part of the tuck tabs are often starting to be pushed out or have the plastic bent.

(In the manual, they do tell the rigger to flatten the top of the freebag, but the freebag design has a lot of internal volume is at the top, so it is difficult to make it not fill up with something.)

[mxk 1]

pchapman

I have no idea if the nexgen is any different for tabs. There is a magnetic riser cover option, which would change things for those rigs.

That's what I plan on getting. There is a photo of the magnetic covers on the last page of: http://www.flyaerodyne.com/download/AERODYNE_NEWSLETTER02_nxgn.pdf

I think the Vector magnetic riser covers are a bit better because the inner flap is in the shape of a trapezoid, so it's not just the magnets that are holding the flap in place. I think the early design used rectangular tabs that sometimes opened during FF.

[MrOneNut 0]

I have about 200 jumps on my Icon NexGen. I have never had an issue with my magnetic riser covers in any body orientation. I do like the rig and will hopefully be buying another one soon that will be setup for wingsuiting.

[shorehambeach 9]

Magnetic riser covers

[parachutist 1]

The Aerodyne magnetic tuck tabs work well, however in that same area: Where the left reserve risers lay, Aerodyne has the fat hard housing for a skyhook reserve ripcord + a hard housing for a cutaway cable laying right next to each other. There's now a sewn seam keeping these housings pressed to the inside. Outboard of that seam is only about 1.5" of flat space to lay the reserve risers. So... you can lay the inboard edge of the reserve risers on top of the housings, which means there's empty space under the outboard edges. Or you can lay the reserve risers flat, next to those housings. Then the risers fold vertically when you close the riser covers, because there's not enough flat space for the reserve risers. This seems like a prototype model rig that needs refinement.

Then there's the reserve pin protection: a flap of ty-12 that covers half the grommet on the top reserve flap. It's quite annoying trying to pin the rig without damaging that ty-12. Then when the pin goes under that flap, it's pressed up against the ty-12 so the pin's tip looks like it'll wear through in short order.

Given the choice between a Vector 3 and Icon Nextgen, I'd definitely choose the UPT Vector.

Chris

[Skydivesg 6]

mxk

I think the Vector magnetic riser covers are a bit better because the inner flap is in the shape of a trapezoid, so it's not just the magnets that are holding the flap in place. I think the early design used rectangular tabs that sometimes opened during FF.

The only time those earlier riser covers opened was during extremely fast head down and angel dives. The only people who ever complained or were able to get them to open (to my knowledge) was Babylon. The trapezoid covers were an evolution requested by them.

If you want some help with a Vector, send me a PM. I may be able to help get you in one a lot quicker than 2015.

Be the canopy pilot you want that other guy to be.