pack40 0 #1 October 8, 2001 Saturday I had my first freefall jump. Finnaly after 9 static line ones. Is it common that my instructor said that I should jump out look at the jumpmaster -being in the door of the airplane- and pull the ripcord? I was looking everywhere but I have not seen the plane. Finnaly I saw the "container" -I jumped with a round chute so it is not really a container but something similar- between my legs going up he he he.It was great and I was not scared as much as I thought I will be. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BPO 0 #2 October 8, 2001 He.. Congrats!Gotta love it!Were you jumping a round canopy for fun, or is it standard student-equipment at your DZ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pack40 0 #3 October 8, 2001 Here in Hungary you can choose from three trainings:1.) AFF course2.) Static-line course3.) Round chute static-line courseThe first two options are the "modern ones" you can choose them but they are a bit more expensive.The round chute course came from the ex-military, ex-socialist era. However I think it is more interesting to start jumping with ex-military chutes than with modern ones. Unfortunately from January these RS 4/4A East-German made parachutes will no longer be jumped -they are 11-12 years old-. Only the miltary purchased some of these parachutes a German company Spekon Gmbh. is still making them but for military use -www.spekon.de-. So the course is:Five static-line jumpsOne "exam" static-line jumpTwo immidiate opening freefall jumpThen 3, 5, 7, 10, 12, 15... second freefall jumpsAfter a 25-35 jumps you can start to jump after a training with modern parachutes.So if I started to write about the chute I'll include some data:RS 4/4Origin: East-GermanyArea of the Canopy -is it area in English-: 73,4 sq. m.Material of the canopy. PAS -Poli-Amid-Silk-Descent rate (100kg): 4.2 m/secTime of 360 degree turn: 8 secHorizontal speed: 3 m/secNumber of the strings or lines -again my Para-English- 30+2Length of the strings or lines -2# again my Para-English- 7 metersMaterial of the strings or lines -3# again my Para-English- PASWeight of the parachute: 16 kgTypes of usage: Static-line, Freefal, Stabilized jump*Packing time: 90 daysMax. number of jumps: 250Time of usage: 8 years (sometimes extended)Max weight to jump: 130 kg*The stablized jumps are or have been used mainly in the military you jump out a static-line opens a pilot chute, but the opening process stops later on by pullling the ripcord the opening continues. This is designed for paratroops jumping with lots of things (Sub-machine guns, Radios etc.) with big weights.With this system you have the main canopy on your back and the reserve canopy on your chest. The reserve canopy is also an East-German one BE-8(cont.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pack40 0 #4 October 8, 2001 BE-8 Reserve Origin: East-GermanyArea of the Canopy -is it area in English-: 41,5 sq. m.Material of the canopy. PAS -Poli-Amid-Silk-Descent rate (100kg): 5-7 m/secHorizontal speed: 1-2 m/secTime of 360 degree turn: 12 secNumber of the strings or lines -4# again my Para-English- 24Length of the strings or lines -5# again my Para-English- 4,75 metersMaterial of the strings or lines -6# again my Para-English- PASWeight: 5,5 kgTypes of usage: FreefallPacking time: 90 daysMax. number of jumps: 10Time of usage: 10 years Max weight to jump: 130 kgAlso for frefall and stabilized jump you have to use an AAD.We use a Russian one called PPK-U -standing for "Parasutnij poluavtomat kombinirovannij i unifitzirovannij" ~ "Half-automated unified and combinated" system-. This is a simple mecahnism there is a clock in it and an aneroid. You have to vind up -7# again my Para-English- set the opening altitude and put a little rod/phorne/thorn so it would not be activated.When you pull it out the clocks starts and goes 3,8 second but it stops until the aneroid decreases -because of the increasing air-pressure during the freefall- when it does then the clock goes 1,2 seconds and after it is elapsed it opens the canopy.You can set the opening altitude from 300m to 8000m.During the first frefall jumps which i jumped. It was set to 2000m but as I jumped from 1000m the PPK-U would open after 5 second anyway. This the so-called "secured" jumps, it has a bit of risk because the rod/phorne/thorn is pulled out by either the jumpmaster or a cable/string in the airplane so if somebodys rod/phorne/thorn is pulled out at a secured jump and he is standing in the door for more than 5 second the chue opens. But, I jumped out. Although these are old systems designed for military purposes I think I am lucky to jump with these. As I mentioned from January these old system will no longer be used. After I might jump with modern stuff -more money and training- or jump 20-25 freffall jumps with modern round chute in modern container and then switch to modern equipment -less cost-.PS: Hell, I have been learning English for 10 years finished an English-language University working at a Canadian firm with Canadian bosses but never had such language/translation problems, sorry for the misuse or inadequate words. Hope you'll understand. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #5 October 8, 2001 QuoteSaturday I had my first freefall jump. Finnaly after 9 static line ones. Is it common that my instructor said that I should jump out look at the jumpmaster -being in the door of the airplane- and pull the ripcord? I was looking everywhere but I have not seen the plane. Finnaly I saw the "container" -I jumped with a round chute so it is not really a container but something similar- between my legs going up he he he.If you keep your eyes on the plane you'll most likely have a better exit. Looking up, at your instructor, helps to keep your body in the arch that is so important during basic instruction. Looking down, as you most likely did, is bad and causes your body to de-arch. Like your instructor said - look at him. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #6 October 8, 2001 This is all very strange. Students jumping with rounds!In the USA, and as far as I know, Australia, NZ, UK, etc. just about everyone uses square canopies. Round parachutes are rarely seen in sport parachuting, and it's almost unheard of to start a student out with one.Speed RacerFirewalk with me! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pack40 0 #7 October 8, 2001 SpeedRacerYes it is rare I think in the next two-three years this system will change. The whole thing is becasue in the socialist system untill 1990 the whole skydiving/parachuting since 1958 was organized in a military like way. There was a major "club" called MHSZ (~Hungarian National Defense Alliance/Association). As far as I know in this "club" you could skydive, shoot, fly, learn to drive etc. somehow practicing for or after the compulsory military service. Later on from the 80s it lost its military "face" and after the end of socialism the whole system collapsed. Although thereare some thing that have not changed or changing, like students jumping with round chutes. Or I can mention that here in Hungary we need medical examintaions to jump. Strict done by at a aeromedical center where private on airline pilots do their medical test. We go through the same procedures maybe for us it is a bit easier.With 11 jumps I am not experienced but I would say to jump with a round chutes it its much much more easier than with modern square chutes in the begining during the static line course. Theoreticly I you jump above a huge field or an area where no trees, building etc. are you would not do anything just land. These rounf just although designed for the military have a nice descent rate 4.2 m/sec not as the US T-10(?) so sometime I could stay on my legs - land without falling down or making anything. They are fully steerable, no-problems. OK freefall with the chest reserve and a huge 16kg back chute might be -I do not know- more diffcult. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #8 October 8, 2001 There are a few DZ in Canada that still use rounds for student mains.There are lots of reasons to use rounds as a first canopy.1. Reduced rate of malfunction. This makes it much easier on a DZ or packers to nsure that the number of mals is as low as possible It also means its less stressful on the first time jumper. They only have to know like 4 malfunctions instead of 12 or so on a square canopy.2. A student is much less likly to get hurt under a round witha PLF then under a square that they could hook into the ground.3. A student does not need to follow the EXACT radio directions to make it back to the DZ since the canopy does'nt have much forward drive to start with.Be safe, be smooth, be fast..... and most importantly.... be phree Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wingnut 0 #9 October 8, 2001 Quoteand it's almost unheard of to start a student out with one.you ment to put "nowadays" in front of that right? remember, rounds were all there was at one time....and also remeber, hungary is a far way away from the u.k,usa, or n.z.....things will be alot diffrent...............by the way your english is not bad at all....alot of us americans speak worse english......j/k....and how much is a jump for the static line in hungary? or entire training untill liscened....in u.s. dollars if possible, i have no idea what the exchange rate is....."up my noooossseee"- wingnut, at first euro dz.com boogie Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pack40 0 #10 October 9, 2001 So static-line course:Course/Training 30000 HUF that is ~105 USD (including the price of the first jump)Medical examinations 12200 HUF that is ~43 USDJump prices at around from Antonov An-2 -14 jumpers max.-:800m 1600 HUF ~5.7 USD1000m 2000 HUF ~7 USD1200m 2400 HUF ~8.5 USD1500m 3000 HUF ~10.6 USDJumps from Let L-410 -20 jumpers max.-4000m 4300 HUF ~16 USD -this price I am not sure seems too low a bit-Renting a RS 4/4A round chute for one jump 1000HUF ~3.5 USDInsurance -you have to have at least Hungarian citizens- 1500 HUF ~5.3 USD This insurance is a joke does not pay anything just a small ammount but by law you have to have. Nowadays even the insurance companies won't make such insurances because they as we think it is rather a joke.I attach a picture of somebody jumping a freefall with this chute(Source: www.eje.hu) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pack40 0 #11 October 9, 2001 Sorry i forgot to tell that if you have many jumpsmaybe the training for you takes less time maybe just a small introduction and an hour of talking.For beginners it is like 2 hours by 3-4 occasions a written testand at some clubs packing exam (not everywhere)When I did my training I jumped with the chute I packed for the first time but with very strict checkings by a trainer/rigger. To pack a round chute is easy but takes a lot more time than a square chute. PS: Interesting some whuffos ask whether I pack my chute usually the answer is no :-) I PAY for it orthe chute AUTOMATICALLY packs itself due to its new technology and usage of smart materialsBut the best whuffo question is "Do not you faint when you jump out?"And another one as I like advertising the sport my colleague did the training and now has 3 jumps. At the courses there was a guy later he jumped aswell but had some interesting questions as:When can we skysurf?When can we BASE jump?You should have seen the face of the instructor... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Geoff 0 #12 October 9, 2001 And the reserve drill is much simpler with rounds (at least the system that I jumped here in the UK)- just pull the reserve handle. Virtually no chance of low cutaways (unless they have capewells and release them), and no main/reserve entanglement potential due to pulling the handles in the wrong order. Lots of real advantages - I'd still prefer 2 ram-airs though.Geoff Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wingnut 0 #13 October 9, 2001 wow, those are good prices for jumps... and an antonov-2..those things are huge....i wish i could jump one...almost got the chance to in the netherlands earlier this year but that didn't pan out... a guy from my drop zone here in germany drove 500km just to jump one and then drove home...for a european to drive that far for a skydive is alot!!!!! hopefull when i visit the U.K. i'll jump a round...just want to once to say i've done it.....maybe the military will let me next year,,,we'll see.......thanks for the info........"up my noooossseee"- wingnut, at first euro dz.com boogie Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freeflir29 0 #14 October 9, 2001 Man.....that pic harkens back to the days when skydiving was dangerous.....4.2M per second.....That is much nicer than a T-10 or -1C screaming down at 18-22 ft per sec. I always thought the 18-22 was just propaganda anyway. I'm sure it's much faster. "The sky resembles a back lit canopy...with holes punched through it"- IncubusClay Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
wingnut 0 #9 October 8, 2001 Quoteand it's almost unheard of to start a student out with one.you ment to put "nowadays" in front of that right? remember, rounds were all there was at one time....and also remeber, hungary is a far way away from the u.k,usa, or n.z.....things will be alot diffrent...............by the way your english is not bad at all....alot of us americans speak worse english......j/k....and how much is a jump for the static line in hungary? or entire training untill liscened....in u.s. dollars if possible, i have no idea what the exchange rate is....."up my noooossseee"- wingnut, at first euro dz.com boogie Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pack40 0 #10 October 9, 2001 So static-line course:Course/Training 30000 HUF that is ~105 USD (including the price of the first jump)Medical examinations 12200 HUF that is ~43 USDJump prices at around from Antonov An-2 -14 jumpers max.-:800m 1600 HUF ~5.7 USD1000m 2000 HUF ~7 USD1200m 2400 HUF ~8.5 USD1500m 3000 HUF ~10.6 USDJumps from Let L-410 -20 jumpers max.-4000m 4300 HUF ~16 USD -this price I am not sure seems too low a bit-Renting a RS 4/4A round chute for one jump 1000HUF ~3.5 USDInsurance -you have to have at least Hungarian citizens- 1500 HUF ~5.3 USD This insurance is a joke does not pay anything just a small ammount but by law you have to have. Nowadays even the insurance companies won't make such insurances because they as we think it is rather a joke.I attach a picture of somebody jumping a freefall with this chute(Source: www.eje.hu) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pack40 0 #11 October 9, 2001 Sorry i forgot to tell that if you have many jumpsmaybe the training for you takes less time maybe just a small introduction and an hour of talking.For beginners it is like 2 hours by 3-4 occasions a written testand at some clubs packing exam (not everywhere)When I did my training I jumped with the chute I packed for the first time but with very strict checkings by a trainer/rigger. To pack a round chute is easy but takes a lot more time than a square chute. PS: Interesting some whuffos ask whether I pack my chute usually the answer is no :-) I PAY for it orthe chute AUTOMATICALLY packs itself due to its new technology and usage of smart materialsBut the best whuffo question is "Do not you faint when you jump out?"And another one as I like advertising the sport my colleague did the training and now has 3 jumps. At the courses there was a guy later he jumped aswell but had some interesting questions as:When can we skysurf?When can we BASE jump?You should have seen the face of the instructor... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Geoff 0 #12 October 9, 2001 And the reserve drill is much simpler with rounds (at least the system that I jumped here in the UK)- just pull the reserve handle. Virtually no chance of low cutaways (unless they have capewells and release them), and no main/reserve entanglement potential due to pulling the handles in the wrong order. Lots of real advantages - I'd still prefer 2 ram-airs though.Geoff Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wingnut 0 #13 October 9, 2001 wow, those are good prices for jumps... and an antonov-2..those things are huge....i wish i could jump one...almost got the chance to in the netherlands earlier this year but that didn't pan out... a guy from my drop zone here in germany drove 500km just to jump one and then drove home...for a european to drive that far for a skydive is alot!!!!! hopefull when i visit the U.K. i'll jump a round...just want to once to say i've done it.....maybe the military will let me next year,,,we'll see.......thanks for the info........"up my noooossseee"- wingnut, at first euro dz.com boogie Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #14 October 9, 2001 Man.....that pic harkens back to the days when skydiving was dangerous.....4.2M per second.....That is much nicer than a T-10 or -1C screaming down at 18-22 ft per sec. I always thought the 18-22 was just propaganda anyway. I'm sure it's much faster. "The sky resembles a back lit canopy...with holes punched through it"- IncubusClay Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
