Bad American?? Ted Nugent?

[bill2 0]

Ted Nugent is not an ignorant white male. As has been pointed out in this thread, no one would have said the same comment if a black or hispanic male had made comments about their own political views. He is right on when he says that hate crimes are a bogus idea. If a family member of yours is shot, does it hurt less if that person is white. Is a white life worse less than a lesbian one, or a black one? Stop creating more laws and enforce the ones we have. If someone commits a crime they deserve the punishment specified under the appropriate law, no matter what their ethnicity/sexual orientation/religion is. As for the bit about women making less than men, that's not true. When you compare apples to apples, the make the same. Compare a man and woman with equal work experience in their chosen field, same college degree, etc. and you get the same pay. Where the discrepancy comes from that the feminists like to harp on, is that so many women take years out to bear and raise children. Obviously, you can't expect a woman to make the same as a man if she has had a number of years out of the workplace. Add to that the fact that many women choose lower paying fields such as elementary school teacher compared to men who go into investment banking or engineering and it further distorts the results. Also, Nugent has been a strong supporter of gun rights over the years. It is hypocritical of Sen Feinstine to be so opposed to gun rights when she has had a permit to carry a concealed weapon for years. Which believe me, here in the PC capitol bay area of CA is next to impossible to get. Another way in which the PC folks are so hypocritical about do as I say not as I do. As for racism, don't act like whites invented it. I am married to an asian woman (I'm white) and I've heard numerous non whites make all sorts of racist statements. Believe me that non whites can be just as racist as any white that ever lived. I've heard them. The important thing about Nugent's statement is that he should have the right to say the things he does without automatically being condemned for being racist/violent/etc. and judging by some of the comments made here is just what is happening.

[Slappie 9]

I am going to have to agree 100% With bill2 on this one. Very well writen and to the point.
BEER!!!!!
My New Website with 24hr Chat

[SpeedRacer 1]

Well, here is my enlightened answer to all of this:
GO AND BOIL YOUR BOTTOMS, EENGLEESH PEEGDOGS!!
I FART IN YOUR GENERAL DIRECTION!!
YOUR MOTHER WAS A HAMSTER, AND YOUR FATHER SMELT OF ELDERBERRIES!!

Speed Racer
Firewalk with me!

[freeflir29 0]

"Son of a motherless goat!" -Steve Martin
"The sky resembles a back lit canopy...with holes punched through it"- Incubus
Clay

[phatcat 0]

THE NUGE!!! Anybody ever go to one of his concerts? I’ve seen him a couple of times and that dude DEFINITELY speaks his mind! I had to laugh when he was going on about drug users – “motherfuckin’ pieces of shit…”, while I could clearly smell someone (probably lots of someones ) smoking weed.

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I believe that if you are selling me a Dairy Queen shake, a pack of cigarettes, or hotel room you do it in English. As of matter of fact, if you are an American citizen you should speak English. My uncles and
forefathers shouldn't have had to die in vain so you can leave the countries you were born in to come disrespect ours, and make us bend to your will. Get over it.

That I can relate to. I work with people from many different countries, mostly Asian. Many of them will only speak English if they are talking to you personally, and even then you can barely understand them. While others make a point to always speak English, even when talking amongst themselves. The difference is very obvious. You can’t get a position with more responsibility if you can’t communicate with your co-workers, and I have witnessed that. It certainly doesn’t have any thing to do with race, and anybody that says otherwise is full of shit.
Josh
"Well I may be crazy, but YOU'RE boring!"

[Keith 0]

bill2 said: He is right on when he says that hate crimes are a bogus idea.
Keith responded:
Unbelievable?!? When was the last time a white man was beaten to death and tied to a fence and left in the middle of no where just because he was white? Do you know who Matthew Sheppard was? Yes that's right *was*. When was the last time a white man was tied to the bumper of a truck and dragged down the street until he was dismembered? Do you know who James Byrd Jr. was? Yes *was*. Also, nobody in this thread called Nugent racist/violent/etc. just ignorant, and he is ignorant.
Keith

[favaks 0]

> Also, nobody in this thread called Nugent racist/violent/etc. just ignorant, and he is ignorant.
Thank you, Keith!
favaks

[FallingMarc 0]

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Unbelievable?!? When was the last time a white man was beaten to death and tied to a fence and left in the middle of no where just because he was white? Do you know who Matthew Sheppard was? Yes that's right *was*. When was the last time a white man was tied to the bumper of a truck and dragged down the street until he was dismembered? Do you know who James Byrd Jr. was? Yes *was*. Also, nobody in this thread called Nugent racist/violent/etc. just ignorant, and he is ignorant.

So what you're saying is that those crimes are worse than any other acts of senseless murder? If those two people had been heterosexual white males, and the same thing had happened to them, it would have been less of a crime? It's somehow less evil to kill a white man than a black man? For ANY reason?
How is that not, using your words, ignorant?
If you take a human life for any reason other than defense of yourself or your loved ones, you have committed a terrible crime. A hate crime. I'd say Nugent's position isn't ignorant at all, if you actually put some thought into it.
Marc

[jtval 0]

So is the other 96% gay or just of a different religion? LMAO
hahaha. cool freeflir- im glad you saw the humor in my post. i was hoping that the sarcasm didnt come out sounding to angry(its hard to post tone of voice in here...)
actually i wouldnt mind if they other 96% were gay. i would be glad to handle the left over woman for them. hahah
have funLIVE FREE,skydive
JT

[jtval 0]

?!? When was the last time a white man was beaten to death and tied to a fence and left in the middle of no where just because he was white?
reginald denny?
hey ust b/c the news doesnt show it doesnt mean it doesnt happen. i grew up in a diverse(ethnically, and otherwise) town. race wars seemed to be a popular pass time with kids(of ignorant parents).
have funLIVE FREE,skydive
JT

[apoil 0]

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Not true now? Women still don't make the same wage for the same job as a man.

I know.. women are still getting 50 bucks for a blowjob but a trannie can only get 10.

[apoil 0]

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bill2 said: He is right on when he says that hate crimes are a bogus idea.
Keith responded:
Unbelievable?!? When was the last time a white man was beaten to death and tied to a fence and left in the middle of no where just because he was white? Do you know who Matthew Sheppard was? Yes that's right *was*. When was the last time a white man was tied to the bumper of a truck and dragged down the street until he was dismembered? Do you know who James Byrd Jr. was? Yes *was*. Also, nobody in this thread called Nugent racist/violent/etc. just ignorant, and he is ignorant.

His point is that that is the same crime no matter who committed it.
Murder is illegal. If you are convicted, and you committed murder in a particularly vile and reprehensible way (which the above scenario most certainly is) then the judge will take that into account during sentencing.
There's no need to create additional laws, because as Nuge said (and I don't agree with him on all his points) it goes against "equal protection of the law"
It means that someone's life is worth more UNDER THE LAW than someone elses.
So the problem with the above unfortunate, despicable incidents perpetrated by the lowest of human slime is not that there aren't laws against hate crimes, but that the existing laws against violence and murder are not being enforced equitably.

[LittleJumper 0]

I haven't read everyone's responses yet...and there are many! but the thing that got me was that he (Ted) doesn't want to be tolerant of other cultures. In California...we have what's termed a "melting pot", at least what i remember. yes...english should be the preferred language in public settings. But we have so many different ethnicities, why cause won to die for the sake of being "American" ? I've never read any of Ted's previous editorials....and if he is as one-sided as he was this particular piece....put a parachute on the dude's back and PUSH HIM OUT THE DOOR!!! He seriously has no concept of co-mingling with other peoples....whether they be homeless, of a different race...et seq.
However, he still wants the constitution to hold up the "right to bear arms"!! I don't have a problem with that...so long as they are not oozies or people killing machines!

[FallingMarc 0]

That's not true... saying that all Americans should be able to communicate in English is simply a matter of practicality. Just because he wants to be able to conduct business in English doesn't mean he has a problem with other languages--but if you come here and DON'T speak English, why should the rest of us have to accomodate you? America has been a "melting pot" since before it was even a nation... but as a nation decided that English was the language it should conduct its business in, and that's the way it was, so that's what everybody learned.
By the way... it's spelled Uzi... but now I'm just being anal. Marc

[FallinWoman 1]

"As for the bit about women making less than men, that's not true. When you compare apples to apples, the make the same."
Don't know where you are getting your facts, but they are not trur. When comparing two people of equal education and experience, the male will make more tham the female EVERY TIME!!!
"Add to that the fact that many women choose lower paying fields such as elementary school teacher compared to men who go into investment banking or engineering and it further distorts the results"
THe salary comparisons are not of female elementary teacher to male investment bankers. Some women "choose" lower paying careers because they grow tired of trying to break into the Good Ole Boys Club.
BTW Men are elementary school teachers (and damn good ones) and women are investment bankers (and damn good ones)
Your oversimplification of the situation tells me with no doubts that the are a white male. If you have never been a minority, you CANNOT know what it is like.

[FallinWoman 1]

"As for the bit about women making less than men, that's not true. When you compare apples to apples, the make the same."
Don't know where you are getting your facts, but they are not trur. When comparing two people of equal education and experience, the male will make more tham the female EVERY TIME!!!
"Add to that the fact that many women choose lower paying fields such as elementary school teacher compared to men who go into investment banking or engineering and it further distorts the results"
THe salary comparisons are not of female elementary teacher to male investment bankers. Some women "choose" lower paying careers because they grow tired of trying to break into the Good Ole Boys Club.
BTW Men are elementary school teachers (and damn good ones) and women are investment bankers (and damn good ones)
Your oversimplification of the situation tells me with no doubts that the are a white male. If you have never been a minority, you CANNOT know what it is like.

[Kelly 0]

.. am i one of the only people to realize what makes a hate crime so horrible? the fact that somebody is something that they cant help (and that they shouldnt have to!!!) and their murdered for it is horrible. Two people could be standing side by side, a racist or sexist or whatever walks up and kills the person that is what that killer sees as "wrong" and "evil". that killer will murder what he so desperately tries to stand against while leaving 'his brother' the one that is like him, alive and well.
people shouldnt be murdered. and people shouldnt be murdered because of one single independant factor. An indian man wouldnt be dead if he werent indian. Thus ,his right to live was taken from him not because he was a bad man, or an evil man, not because he violated society, or hurt people, but because he was indian. The person who kills him should be punished horribly.
every murderer should recieve the death sentance. every hate crime murder should have their limbs picked apart slowely by the deseased ones family.
thats just my take on it. Kill me because im in your way, then im just screwed. kill me because your ignorant fucked up head thinks that who i am is wrong, well burn in hell bastard.
..... by the way, look at the statistics, often times hate crimes are more brutal, involve extensive periods of tourture, are drawn out and accompanied by verbal abuse. Not to many hate crimes occur when the perp shoots the victim in the back. No, those victims are dragged around by their hair, their bodies are mutilated, their pissed on and shit on, their kicked and their prodded, molested and their tortured. you should suffer 100xs more than the suffering your victim went thru. Think of what the victim's went thru the moments before death, wait, with hate crimes its often hours if not a day or 2 of emotional/physical/ and psychological cruelity. Give them the justice they deserve. make their killers suffer worse than they did.
And thats why hate crime legislation is something Im proud to support.
i did the research, i read the stories, I read the books, i heard what the victims families said and what the victims last words were, i watched the TV footage, and i wrote a damned good paper on it. .......This is just my opinion....
"i can not attest to what i did, just what i remember...."
~me, after one too many

[deadbird 0]

The Nugent thing is as much of a hoax as the Carlin thing is that has been going around for a long time. I've met Carlin and a friend of mine used to roadie for The Nug, and neither of them think that way. Most of what we see on the internet is a crock anyway, e.g. don't sitfly with a Javelin. BS.
Don't die in a senseless tragedy, skydive!

[Keith 0]

jtval said:
?!? When was the last time a white man was beaten to death and tied to a fence and left in the middle of no where just because he was white?
reginald denny?
Reginald Denny wasn't beaten to death. He was alive and well when he testified against his attackers.
Keith

[Keith 0]

jtval said:
?!? When was the last time a white man was beaten to death and tied to a fence and left in the middle of no where just because he was white?
reginald denny?
Reginald Denny wasn't beaten to death. He was quite alive when he testified against his attackers.
Keith

[Keith 0]

apoil said:
Murder is illegal. If you are convicted, and you committed murder in a particularly vile and reprehensible way (which the above scenario most certainly is) then the judge will take that into account during sentencing.
There's no need to create additional laws, because as Nuge said (and I don't agree with him on all his points) it goes against "equal protection of the law"
The law always takes intent in to account when analyzing the severity of a crime. What were talking about here are people who are targeted *because* of who they are, not because they happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. 99.99% of the time white men aren't *targeted* because they are white. When white men do get the bajeezus beeaten out of us it's because the minority group is retaliating for an injustice. Take Reginald Denny, as mentioned earlier. He was beaten because he was in the wrong place at the wrong time. A riot broke out after several cops were aquitted of senslessly beating Rodney King after a routine traffic stop. These cops should have been locked up. The whole thing was on video. They were guilty as hell and the system failed. *That* is why we have hate crime legislation.
So the problem with the above unfortunate, despicable incidents perpetrated by the lowest of human slime is not that there aren't laws against hate crimes, but that the existing laws against violence and murder are not being enforced equitably.
Again the system fails and that is why we have hate crime ligislation. The fact that you don't get it is encouraging, it shows that we are headed toward a more eqitable society.
Keith

[Keith 0]

jkm2500 said:
. . .or other wise stupid, or "ignorant"
Keith responded:
Ignorant does not mean stupid. It means not knowing. There is a difference. It also doesn't mean that someone isn't entitled to their own opinion. I beleive even the KKK has the right to spout their trash. Ignorant, in this case, means that while someone is exercising their constitutional right to express their opinion, they are doing so without knowing all the facts.
Keith

[Keith 0]

FallingMarc said:
So what you're saying is that those crimes are worse than any other acts of senseless murder? If those two people had been heterosexual white males, and the same thing had happened to them, it would have been less of a crime? It's somehow less evil to kill a white man than a black man? For ANY reason?
How is that not, using your words, ignorant?
Keith responded:
Because had they been heterosexual white males they wouldn't be dead.
Keith

[SkyDekker 1,154]

First of all, I am Canadian, so maybe that makes me a bad american right from the start

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white men have traditionally been favored in this country

How much luck do you think I would have getting a job as a presenter at Black Entertainment TV (BET)? (second to that, how much trouble would I have to go through to start White Entertainment TV if (WET

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white men have been ignorant to the fact that black people, women and other minorities have been refused jobs because of who they are

How much chance would I have of securing a job as a sales person at Victoria's Secret in your local mall as a heterosexual male?

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White men have been ignorant to the fact that black people, native Americans, gays, lesbians, and other minorities have been refused housing because of who they are

I think I will try and buy a house, ohh say on a native reserve, or maybe in South Central LA......

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white men have been ignorant to the fact that black people, native Americans, gays, lesbians, and other minorities have been beaten and killed because of who they are

Nothing like a midnight walk in south central LA, where I am sure I would absolutely not get beaten or killed for my white skin...right?
Once again, just some views from the other side of the coin.....
SkyDekker

[SpeedRacer 1]

excerpt from a web page about urban legends, internet hoaxes, etc.

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Comments: As of this writing (mid-2001), versions of this paean to political incorrectness have been floating around for at least a year, variously attributed to George Carlin, Ted Nugent, Denis Leary and others. Its actual author is unknown. Carlin recently disavowed it on his Website. A variant ran in Nugent's Adventure Outdoors Magazine in early 2001, but the politically outspoken rock star did not take credit for it and other versions had already been posted on the Internet well before that.

RE. the arguments here, why doesn't everyone just have another beer? Basically, you're all agreeing with each other, just emphasizing things differently.
-wishing I wasn't at work so I could get a beer,
Speed Racer
Firewalk with me!