dorbie 0 #26 March 20, 2007 QuoteWhat about spotting? Did you or someone talk to the spotter? You've got a better chance of spotting them when you turn to start your track than from the aircraft. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
strop45 0 #27 March 20, 2007 QuoteQuoteWhat about spotting? Did you or someone talk to the spotter? You've got a better chance of spotting them when you turn to start your track than from the aircraft. So are you saying that there's little point in spotting from the aircraft, best to leave it until you start your track? Seems to me that its probably easier to avoid canopies, small aircraft etc by staying in the plane for a few more seconds, that waiting until you are closing on them at 120 mph?The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." -- Albert Einstein Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yoink 321 #28 March 20, 2007 QuoteAs I turned to track I saw a canopy below me and in front of me, and I veered about 30 degrees to the right to avoid him. Bet you're glad you weren't barrel rolling to clear the airspace above you! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #29 March 20, 2007 Somehow I get the feeling that if the roles had been reversed you would have been screaming at HIM about exit separation. Tell us about your load order. I assume that he was on an 8-way or larger formation skydive. Points that came up later that weren't in your original post and need clarification regarding THIS situation: 1. Something about earlier jump run? 2. Flying back into jump run?My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #30 March 20, 2007 Somehow I get the feeling that if the roles had been reversed you would have been screaming at HIM about exit separation if you guys were on the same load. Were you one separate jump runs over the same spot? Were you on the second which was 1/2 mile West of the first? Relate the jump run direction relative to the landing area. You're post didn't provide very much info on exactly what happened to cause the near hit.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorbie 0 #31 March 20, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteWhat about spotting? Did you or someone talk to the spotter? You've got a better chance of spotting them when you turn to start your track than from the aircraft. So are you saying that there's little point in spotting from the aircraft, best to leave it until you start your track? Seems to me that its probably easier to avoid canopies, small aircraft etc by staying in the plane for a few more seconds, that waiting until you are closing on them at 120 mph? No, I'm saying that I estimate there's a snowball's chance in hell of spotting a canopy open 10k feet beneath you. And yes it would make sense to look where you're going just as you track. I know I tend to clear my airspace for other skydivers on my own load but, we don't even have a good idea of our true trajectories thanks to the relative cues we get starting a track, I expect you would start looking down then out at about 45 degrees as you build speed, but I sure don't do that. Maybe I should, frankly I'd rather the DZ managed the job of mitigating the risk, there's only so much shit I can look out for at one time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorbie 0 #32 March 20, 2007 Quote Tell us about your load order. 1. Something about earlier jump run? I think this is the key, he was on another load in an different aircraft. He pulled high and was still under canopy when Bill tracked past him at 3k. Talk about turning loads. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #33 March 20, 2007 Quote> So you are telling me that everyone at your DZ is pulling at 3000 - 2000 feet. No, I'm telling you that at least one jumper did not and almost killed me this weekend. Fortunately, most people at Perris _do_ pull at those altitudes (or take precautions, like doing a hop and pop at 6000 or exiting in the CRW area.) You weren't nearly killed because a guy opened at 3500, or remotely close. He was at that altitude 5 minutes after exiting, suggesting he was at 7k or beyond. You're blurring the message when talking about this 2-3k thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dorbie 0 #34 March 20, 2007 QuoteQuote> So you are telling me that everyone at your DZ is pulling at 3000 - 2000 feet. No, I'm telling you that at least one jumper did not and almost killed me this weekend. Fortunately, most people at Perris _do_ pull at those altitudes (or take precautions, like doing a hop and pop at 6000 or exiting in the CRW area.) You weren't nearly killed because a guy opened at 3500, or remotely close. He was at that altitude 5 minutes after exiting, suggesting he was at 7k or beyond. You're blurring the message when talking about this 2-3k thing. But the guy was allegedly on another 8-way. I'm a bit incredulous that anyone on an 8-way deployed at 7k or anywhere near it, never mind allowing for breakoff. Something doesn't add up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dharma1976 0 #35 March 20, 2007 I did a high pull meester bill at perris and got the briefing of all briefings on where I was supposed to be until what altitude.... they were like dont even think of crossing this road until you are at like 2000 feet and I listened Davehttp://www.skyjunky.com CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,405 #36 March 20, 2007 > I did a high pull meester bill at perris and got the briefing of all >briefings on where I was supposed to be until what altitude.... Cool. Being proactive like that will go a long way towards solving this issue. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skybytch 259 #37 March 20, 2007 QuoteBut the guy was allegedly on another 8-way. I'm a bit incredulous that anyone on an 8-way deployed at 7k or anywhere near it, never mind allowing for breakoff. Something doesn't add up. You might want to go reread the post. Nowhere is it stated that the guy was on another 8 way. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites popsjumper 2 #38 March 21, 2007 Quote... I think this is the key, he was on another load in an different aircraft. He pulled high and was still under canopy when Bill tracked past him at 3k. Thanks for the additional input. So a few questions remain.... Was Bill's load the same jump run or the offset to the West? Did the guy fly over into the Bill's space or did Bill track over into HIS space? If different jump runs on different tracks, which one was upwind of the other or were they parallel to wind direction? Which load was closer to the landing area?My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dorbie 0 #39 March 21, 2007 QuoteQuoteBut the guy was allegedly on another 8-way. I'm a bit incredulous that anyone on an 8-way deployed at 7k or anywhere near it, never mind allowing for breakoff. Something doesn't add up. You might want to go reread the post. Nowhere is it stated that the guy was on another 8 way. Ahh, thanks, I missinterpreted the first line of the first post. The whole thing makes more sense now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jdatc 0 #40 March 22, 2007 QuoteAt most multiple-aircraft DZ's the opening altitudes are between 2000 and 3000 feet At the WFFC, per the 06 stuff anyway and I quote Quote "You need to plan your deployment altitude so that you have a fully open canopy no higher than 3000 feet AGL, and you are expected to be familiar with the opening characteristics of the canopy you will jumping in order to do this." Course they also stated; QuoteHook turns (turns more than 90 degrees to landing) are permitted only in the swoop pond hook turn area!!! Hook turns are extremely dangerous at the Convention and must not be done where they are not expected. Then again, I saw a lot of people breaking these rules, and no one said a thing.... hmmm..... The FAA is often called the 'tombstone agency' for this reason. They are slow to act and fix problems that are relatively well known until the body count climbs.... Maybe the USPA is trying to vie for that moniker. _justin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 2 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. 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kelpdiver 2 #33 March 20, 2007 Quote> So you are telling me that everyone at your DZ is pulling at 3000 - 2000 feet. No, I'm telling you that at least one jumper did not and almost killed me this weekend. Fortunately, most people at Perris _do_ pull at those altitudes (or take precautions, like doing a hop and pop at 6000 or exiting in the CRW area.) You weren't nearly killed because a guy opened at 3500, or remotely close. He was at that altitude 5 minutes after exiting, suggesting he was at 7k or beyond. You're blurring the message when talking about this 2-3k thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorbie 0 #34 March 20, 2007 QuoteQuote> So you are telling me that everyone at your DZ is pulling at 3000 - 2000 feet. No, I'm telling you that at least one jumper did not and almost killed me this weekend. Fortunately, most people at Perris _do_ pull at those altitudes (or take precautions, like doing a hop and pop at 6000 or exiting in the CRW area.) You weren't nearly killed because a guy opened at 3500, or remotely close. He was at that altitude 5 minutes after exiting, suggesting he was at 7k or beyond. You're blurring the message when talking about this 2-3k thing. But the guy was allegedly on another 8-way. I'm a bit incredulous that anyone on an 8-way deployed at 7k or anywhere near it, never mind allowing for breakoff. Something doesn't add up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dharma1976 0 #35 March 20, 2007 I did a high pull meester bill at perris and got the briefing of all briefings on where I was supposed to be until what altitude.... they were like dont even think of crossing this road until you are at like 2000 feet and I listened Davehttp://www.skyjunky.com CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,405 #36 March 20, 2007 > I did a high pull meester bill at perris and got the briefing of all >briefings on where I was supposed to be until what altitude.... Cool. Being proactive like that will go a long way towards solving this issue. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 259 #37 March 20, 2007 QuoteBut the guy was allegedly on another 8-way. I'm a bit incredulous that anyone on an 8-way deployed at 7k or anywhere near it, never mind allowing for breakoff. Something doesn't add up. You might want to go reread the post. Nowhere is it stated that the guy was on another 8 way. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #38 March 21, 2007 Quote... I think this is the key, he was on another load in an different aircraft. He pulled high and was still under canopy when Bill tracked past him at 3k. Thanks for the additional input. So a few questions remain.... Was Bill's load the same jump run or the offset to the West? Did the guy fly over into the Bill's space or did Bill track over into HIS space? If different jump runs on different tracks, which one was upwind of the other or were they parallel to wind direction? Which load was closer to the landing area?My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorbie 0 #39 March 21, 2007 QuoteQuoteBut the guy was allegedly on another 8-way. I'm a bit incredulous that anyone on an 8-way deployed at 7k or anywhere near it, never mind allowing for breakoff. Something doesn't add up. You might want to go reread the post. Nowhere is it stated that the guy was on another 8 way. Ahh, thanks, I missinterpreted the first line of the first post. The whole thing makes more sense now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdatc 0 #40 March 22, 2007 QuoteAt most multiple-aircraft DZ's the opening altitudes are between 2000 and 3000 feet At the WFFC, per the 06 stuff anyway and I quote Quote "You need to plan your deployment altitude so that you have a fully open canopy no higher than 3000 feet AGL, and you are expected to be familiar with the opening characteristics of the canopy you will jumping in order to do this." Course they also stated; QuoteHook turns (turns more than 90 degrees to landing) are permitted only in the swoop pond hook turn area!!! Hook turns are extremely dangerous at the Convention and must not be done where they are not expected. Then again, I saw a lot of people breaking these rules, and no one said a thing.... hmmm..... The FAA is often called the 'tombstone agency' for this reason. They are slow to act and fix problems that are relatively well known until the body count climbs.... Maybe the USPA is trying to vie for that moniker. _justin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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