Easiest to land beginner canopy?

[MarkWarren 0]

Did my first three AFF jumps Tuesday under a Firebolt, wing loading at .90.
Wonderful canopy! Responsive without being touchy, really nice flare. First landing, pretty much zero wind, stand-up landing with no forward motion at all. Second landing, flared a little fast, so actually went back up noticeably, but still a nice landing. Third landing, wind was up to about 10, flared a little high, landed and sat down, but still no forward motion at all.
I have great confidence in my Racer and really like the Firebolt.

[ChrisD 0]

agaace

Thanks a million for all the advice!

RE: Canopy choice vs canopy course
I don't see how this is relevant. I did a canopy course, but it's just a few jumps. I got great feedback on what I keep doing wrong & need to fix, now I have homework to learn to be more consistent. I would simply like to start the learning process with a canopy that will make it easiest and safest for me before I'm decent enough to land any canopy (probably after a few more canopy courses). I also asked in case there are any totally bad choices I should avoid. Sort of like choosing your first car: you ultimately want to be able to drive any car, but you won't hop in a 400 HP sports car with your freshly printed driving license in hand. Cheers!

How yo making out?

I think with the canopy choices you have mentioned there really isn't any canopy listed that is going to be a "bad choice." I think one of the things yo have laid out by saying you want a canopy that will maximize what you call: "easiest and safest" would be to upsize a size, using a 200 ~ 210 something that puts your wing loading at about 0.8 ~ 0.75 ?? Or so?? This is the only sure thing you can actually do. Not without controversy for some, but it will make learning to flare much easier and for the same reasons students use larger canopies in the first place. Everything will be a little slower and certainly a little gentler for you! Just in case.

I think the many responses about a canopy course is just to increase your jump numbers in front of a more experienced eye, just in case they see something your doing that you your self can not see at the moment!
C

But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

[Lukasz_Se 2]

Chris, how about you tell us which canopies you jumped with? From what I remember you have ONE tandem jump, do you seriously need to give advice to people that think you are actually experienced skydiver? Giving advice to people is fine as long as you make it perfectly clear that you are NOT a skydiver...

Back to the topic, I started jumping Sabre 2 190 after 25 jumps, I tried some other 190s before that but I had best landings with Sabre. The only problem is that at lower wing loadings outer cells might stay callapsed after opening but it's not really a big deal, pumping the brakes fixes the problem quickly. I had some offheading openings but it was always caused by shitty body position or pulling from full track in a tracksuit.

[labrys 0]

Quote

using a 200 ~ 210 something that puts your wing loading at about 0.8 ~ 0.75 ?? Or so?? This is the only sure thing you can actually do. Not without controversy for some, but it will make learning to flare much easier

I would *love* to hear you explain why you think a larger canopy will "make learning to flare much easier"

Owned by Remi #?

[labrys 0]

Don't be afraid to get technical, Chris... educate us.

Owned by Remi #?

[ChrisD 0]

Lukasz_Se

Chris, how about you tell us which canopies you jumped with? From what I remember you have ONE tandem jump, do you seriously need to give advice to people that think you are actually experienced skydiver? Giving advice to people is fine as long as you make it perfectly clear that you are NOT a skydiver...

Back to the topic, I started jumping Sabre 2 190 after 25 jumps, I tried some other 190s before that but I had best landings with Sabre. The only problem is that at lower wing loadings outer cells might stay callapsed after opening but it's not really a big deal, pumping the brakes fixes the problem quickly. I had some offheading openings but it was always caused by shitty body position or pulling from full track in a tracksuit.

I'm sorry that you are under the impression that I have only one tandem jump.

I have recently used: a Spectre 170, 190, Sabre 2 190, 150, and a 200 or whatever, as well as a Tri 190, a Storm 190, and a 170, when travelling I have recently used a nav 220 and 240, I gave up my old stiletto and a few others a couple of years ago....and there have been a few others in here as well.

But what is the point?

I point out upsizing in response to this persons statements about gear and wanting gear that is safer than other gear. Lower wing loadings mean slower speeds, more gradual rates of descent and more time to practice, I would have though this was obvious?

Perhaps if yo want to pick on my logic you could stick to the points she has raised to help her out rather than paltry attempts to discredit anything said here??? You could also follow your own advice and take some time to explain what you have to say, as you point out, " to help educate her as well."

C


(hypothetically what if this person had suggested that they want a 120 sized canopy for the future or something similar? She didn't, I want to make this perfectly clear, but what would have the responses been if she had?)

But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

[mjosparky 3]

So much advice from so little experience. Contact the major manufactures, they know more about the canopies than anyone you will talk to here, and ask about demos. Talk to the experienced canopy pilots at your DZ and do some demos. Don’t be in a rush.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[GoHuskers 0]

Joellercoaster

***The Sabre2 has a significant advantage in accuracy

No.

Yes.

[hillson 0]

GoHuskers

******The Sabre2 has a significant advantage in accuracy

No.

Yes.

It is the side of beef hanging under the strings that determines whether a canopy is accurate or not.

Don't confuse familiarity with 7 or 9 cells with "more accurate"

[GoHuskers 0]

All else being equal a steeper angle of attack will help you identify and adjust your pattern to the target. It will especially help prevent overshooting your target with a lightly loaded / flat gliding canopy.

[excaza 1]

GoHuskers

All else being equal a steeper angle of attack will help you identify and adjust your pattern to the target. It will especially help prevent overshooting your target with a lightly loaded / flat gliding canopy.

Must be why all those accuracy jumpers use steeply trimmed canopies.

[Joellercoaster 6]

All those accuracy jumpers also get out on dedicated jump runs they spot themselves. They don't have to get back from being strung out along a whole Otter load full of exit groups.

I mostly take issue with Huskers' use of the word "significant".

I have plenty of jumps on Sabre2s and many more on Pilots, and I can report that there is precisely zero difference in how accurate I was on them. This so-called difference is entirely in your mind.

The Sabre2 *does* glide a little steeper, but you are over-thinking this - possibly just to support your own canopy choice, whatever. I don't care, but this does not qualify as useful advice to a beginner.

--
"I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan

"You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

[excaza 1]

Joellercoaster

All those accuracy jumpers also get out on dedicated jump runs they spot themselves.

I'm aware and not sure how it's relevant. They could get out on dedicated jump runs they spot themselves with a steeply trimmed canopy too.

Quote

I don't care, but this does not qualify as useful advice to a beginner.

It's not useful advice to anybody because it's plain wrong. If you're overshooting the target you need to change your pattern, not your canopy.

[mjosparky 3]

GoHuskers

All else being equal a steeper angle of attack will help you identify and adjust your pattern to the target. It will especially help prevent overshooting your target with a lightly loaded / flat gliding canopy.

Your really have no idea what you are talking about do you?

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[councilman24 36]

Wow I thought rec.skydiving was dead. Now I remember why I keep posting here. To try to counter act some of the really bad advice given by __________ (you fill in the the appropriate noun I can think of several)

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[agaace 0]

Wow I'm kinda scared to touch this thread seeing where it went! In case anyone was interested:

I simply went with Pilot 188. That was what I was most familiar with, so I kept jumping on it whenever it was available and did another canopy class, this time with Barry Williams at Skydive Elsinore. Highly recommend!! He took me from eating dirt to book perfect landings I was able to reproduce each time (except accuracy is still something I'm working on). Turned out I just needed one tip: try to lean forward in the harness (or rather stop leaning back), and that fixed both "omg what do I do now" issue, helped the balance, achieving (and being aware of) nice level flight and fixed the tempo to a nice 2-second flare and finding the "sweet spot". I'm still stressing out about landings a bit, but not nearly as much as before. And haven't eaten dirt since :)

Back to the subject: After completeing the canopy class and getting a confidence boost, I finally bought my first rig that luckily came together with an awesome Pilot 168. I'm a little closer to 1:1 wing loading now (probably still a little below), and plan on jumping this canopy for a while. It doesn't seem much faster or scarier at landing than 188 did but is surprisingly way more responsive and fun to fly. My landings are more consistent now that I jump the same canopy and my last one would get me C license accuracy :)

I couldn't be happier with the Pilot 168, looking forward to this season flying it, and hopefully more canopy classes - they are so much fun, some of my favorite jumps so far :)

PS. Did I mention Barry's canopy class is awesome? I couldn't say enough positive stuff about it.

[Joellercoaster 6]

Great stuff! And thanks for reporting back :)

--
"I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan

"You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?