Reserve sizing advice

[Eddles 0]

I'm considering buying a new container and I've been thinking about the reserve canopy. My current set-up is a Sabre 2 170 with a PD 160R. The main is loaded at 1.3, and the reserve is pushing 1.4. I'm a novice jumper with about 350 jumps and I started skydiving in 2010. I've been jumping this rig since jump #80 (far too early, I'm well aware) starting with a Sabre 170 before changing to the Sabre 2 170 100 jumps ago.

Even with my current level, I feel the Sabre 2 pushes the limits of my experience and I'm comfortable with this. I have no aspirations to downsize for a very long time, I'm extremely happy with the current canopy. However I've never been comfortable with the size of the reserve - I've been told that it's more docile than the Sabre 2 so it should be roughly equal, apparently, but in an emergency things might be different. With my current container I'm hamstrung with the size of the reserve so I'm happy with a 160 reserve. I've had a cut-away but it was with a 260 reserve.

However, with the new container, I have more freedom to choose, so I'm considering upsizing the reserve to a PD 176R or even a PD 193R while keeping the 170 main. I will find out whether the manufacturer can make it so that the container will be able to take a 150 main for future downsizing if any. I would rather avoid the Optimum if possible, but would consider it if necessary.

Is this a good plan, or am I going up too far, or restricting myself in terms of choices of containers due to the large size difference between the 193 reserve and the 150 main? Will there be an issue when there's a 2-out with different sized canopies?

Shouldn't I worry too much and keep the 160 reserve, considering it'd cost me a lot to replace it with a new one as my PD 160R's DOM is 1998 (with 0 jumps) so I wouldn't get much for it if I sold it, however I'm happy to jump it. A 193 reserve would be very hard to buy second hand, whereas a 176 would be a little easier, however probably would have to buy new. If I stick with the 160 reserve, I would definitely look to demo jump the 160 reserve to learn how to handle it.

Advice would be greatly appreciated!

[councilman24 36]

First, a lower bulk reserve would allow you to upsize in your current rig or in a readily available sized new rig.

Going bigger is never bad IMHO although some will tell you that it should be close to the size of the main. This was true when mains and reserves were similar or the same (Ravens). If you had two out they played better together if they were similar size. These days with most mains being somewhat to radically different in design and flight characteristics from reserves I don't think that matters anymore. Others will disagree, in part to justify their use of tiny reserves, in part because they truly believe that similar size (even when one is a velocity) is better. They may be right. But any little pocket rocket isn't going to play well with anything.

With your sabre the old argument is still somewhat true but I still wouldn't let that keep me from upsizing. IF you have an aad you need to decide if you want to have a better chance of living or not being significantly injured if you land unconscious under your reserve. No AAD, no worries. Unconscious equals death. But unconscious with an open reserve that is too small very likely means major injury or death.

If your not concerned about unconscious landings I'd say you could stay with the 160. (can't believe I gave that advice to a someone wanting to go up. Ignore that advice!) Going up would still be a good idea.

When you go down in main you may need to go down in reserve due to container restraints but then you just sell everything (easier anyway) and replace the reserve.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[gowlerk 1,912]

You already know the answer. My answer would be to match the 170 main that you plan to use for a long time with at least a 176 reserve. You already know your current 160 is a compromise that you aren't comfortable with, and for good reason. A container that holds these would also work with a 150 main, but that would be at the very bottom of my list of considerations. You may be able to trade your 160 for a used 176 through the classifieds if you are patient.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[DBCOOPER 1]

Just curious as to why you would avoid the Optiimum?If the container is in good shape I would sell both the Sabre and PDR and get a Pulse 190 and the biggest Optimum that would fit the container.

Replying to: Re: Stall On Jump Run Emergency Procedure? by billvon

If the plane is unrecoverable then exiting is a very very good idea.

[virgin-burner 1]

the optimum is an extremely nice ride; i was very pleasantly surprised!

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[Eddles 0]

The current container and reserve is old (container a FF friendly Javelin, both DOM 1998) and in a serviceable condition, and I'd be surprised to get more than £250 for both. Optimum is too new and thus too expensive. I've been told that the Optimum isn't as docile as the PDR but this is from an unreliable source. I'm more than happy with the Sabre, I brought it only 9 months ago ;-)

I think the best way forward is to get a new container and a second hand PD 176R - I should have time to find a second hand reserve while the container is being built. However I'm not yet 100% certain I should get a 176 reserve over the 193.


All your advice is much appreciated!

[nigel99 144]

Eddles

The current container and reserve is old (container a FF friendly Javelin, both DOM 1998) and in a serviceable condition, and I'd be surprised to get more than £250 for both. Optimum is too new and thus too expensive. I've been told that the Optimum isn't as docile as the PDR but this is from an unreliable source. I'm more than happy with the Sabre, I brought it only 9 months ago ;-)

I think the best way forward is to get a new container and a second hand PD 176R - I should have time to find a second hand reserve while the container is being built. However I'm not yet 100% certain I should get a 176 reserve over the 193.


All your advice is much appreciated!

Reading your posts it is clear you would be happier with the 193 reserve. I'd suggest you pursue that, nothing but safe landings from being conservative.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[Joellercoaster 6]

I didn't come up with this, but several wise people have pointed out:

"Gee I wish that was smaller", said nobody looking up at their reserve ever.

I continue to periodically experiment with smaller mains, but my reserve size stays (about) the same. Optimum next, to keep that possible in a common container size. Low bulk reserves are IMO the best new thing in years.

I think, ignore the two-out scenario as a reserve sizing factor. Most of us end up under a reserve at some point. Very few of us under our main at the same time... and even then, as others have pointed out, they're pretty different nowadays anyway.

--
"I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan

"You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

[IJskonijn 38]

I've used very much the same reasoning for my choice of reserve (Raven II at 218sqft while using Silhouette 190 or Lightning 176 mains). By the time I need the reserve, I'm already halfway up shit-creek, so I'd like something that isn't going to play homesick bowling ball on me.

So yeah, I'd say get a reserve size that you're comfortable with when you're (a) stressed out, (b) bloody low and (c) somewhere way off the normal DZ. If you still have a few doubts with the PDR176, go to the 193.

[DaveTheSlave 0]

I also have a PD 160R and had some concern if it was appropriate for me until I had a chance to jump one at PD's Project Orange event last week at Zephyrhills.

My Main is a Pulse 190 and I feel it is a nice conservative canopy for me. I have a PD 160R in my old rig but I was a bit lighter when I was jumping it and when I got my new rig this year someone suggested I put a 160 in it also. They convinced me to do it but wasn't sure it was the right choice until I got to try one.

The PD guys had reserves set up as mains for demos and loaded it up into my Vector for me. They also got me to enter into the Reserve Backyard Accuracy contest.

Nice brisk opening and good flying characteristics! I like the performance envelope the canopy has. Full Flight was a bit faster than I am use to with my main but I was not uncomfortable with it. I was also happy with the stability in deep brakes. I didn't land in the hula hoop target but I did what I felt was a nice stand up landing in the backyard!

I am not trying to say the 160 is the reserve for you but I feel that it is a good match for me. I would recommend to see if you can demo the reserve that you think you want. I think PD is doing a great thing by promoting the opportunity to jump a reserve in a controlled environment. It was a great learning opportunity and boosted the confidence I have in my equipment. It was a fun event and would definitely do it again in the future.