maybe save someones life......

[cloudseeker2001 0]

under what circumstances do you think you should tell a fellow skydiver that this sport is NOT for them and they will probably kill themselves or worse, others?

"Some call it heavenly in it's brilliance,
others mean and rueful of the western dream"

[indyz 1]

You said it yourself: If you think that, "they will probably kill themselves or worse, others."

[skydiverbrian 0]

It's usually pretty easy to tell the ones who should be golfing instead. They are unsafe in freefall and unsafe under canopy. They walk on your lines, spill stuff on the packing mats, and forget that planes have propellers. You can only suggest that they leave the sport, but you can enforce that they leave your dz.

In a world full of people, only some want to fly... isn't that crazy! --Seal

[billvon 2,454]

When:

A) their perception of risk is unrealistic (i.e. I can't get hurt doing this, I will never get hurt under any conditions.)

b) they are a serious risk to other jumpers (like someone who can't track after RW and is unwilling to either learn or jump in a way that does not endanger others.)

If they understand that they are doing something stupid, and accept that risk, well, that's their choice to make. It's always sad when someone dies doing something stupid, but ultimately, in the end it is their life to risk.

[jtval 0]

Hey Cloudseeker,
you've never even seen me skydive...have you.

I agree if you think that they are seriously gonna do some damage then express your concerns! but do it in a way that you actually look concerned!

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[slotperfect 7]

It begins with a focus that comes from having respect for the fact that our sport is inherently dangerous. This focus becomes second nature with experience, but the safest of skydivers are careful not to get complacent. This focus is on "safe" and not "cool." Once new jumpers realize that being safe IS cool, they won't mind taking a crawl-walk-run approach to things such as branching off into other disciplines, canopy downsizing, etc. Some folks, for whatever reason, just plain don't have that focus and are dangerous to themselves and others. The person you speak of may be coachable enough to be taught how to be a safe skydiver. Share your concern with an instructor or very experienced jumper that you trust at your DZ. Maybe you'll find some help.

Arrive Safely

John

[GrumpySmurf 0]

After meeting of few of them, seems to be if people start calling them 'Bounce Bait' behind thier back or if, after 10 minutes of conversation, you go, "That has to be the most egocentric person I have met in my life." that is a good indication of someone who is not suited for jumping. You can try to tell them to take up golfing or bowling, but odds are, they aren't going to listen - the best tool seems to be refusing to jump with them, and encouraging others to do the same - either 'Bounce Bait' will give up because no one wants to play or will wisen up and start asking why no one wants to jump with them (and perhaps address the issues, when informed what they are, that made them dangerous to jump with in the first place).

[freeflir29 0]

Tough Question. I thought we had one of those people at my DZ. He was so nervous about a H&P one day that he made a couple mistakes that probably should have killed him and could have crashed the plane. I wasn't on the plane but I definately heard the stories. Scary stuff!! I know that he pulled fairly low SEVERAL times because he lost alti awareness. That was a few months ago. With some more instruction and encouragement from the instructors, I saw video of a perfect H&P exit yesterday. He spotted the plane himself and generally did an excellent job. Landed a little short but it was windy and the only reference he had was a guy flying a Velocity 98 that landed before him. I'm sure that threw him off a bit. So....this guy has gone from a complete danger to himself and everyone around him to a pretty darn good skydiver. Just don't give up too early on someone. It's not fair to them or the DZ community. I for one was ecstatic to see this guy's progress and the DZ is a better place for he and his wife hanging out.

[tigra 0]

If its's not MY DZ, I can't tell them to leave. And I do know and have seen the type. They log a lot of jumps in a short period of time, consider themselves "bullet proof" and have an inflated assessment of their skills. They are usafe/unpredictable in freefall, and unsafe under canopy, and they won't listen to anyone. I may not be the one to tell them to leave the sport, and I can't tell them to leave my home dz, but I can make a decision NOT to jump with them or even get on the plane if someone like that is on the load. A load organizer can refuse to put that person on his dive, a DZO or S&TA can ground them or ask them to leave the dz if they do something blatantly unsafe. I guess that's part of being a "self-policing" sport. I've also seen reserve handles pulled and an occasional fight. Eventually, the jumper in question gets the hint that he/she is not welcome, but generally not the "why" part. So off they go to another dz with ultimately the same results. Each time they move on, they whine about "skygods" with attitudes, and load organizers who are completely unfair and DZ politics and people playing favorites!

And, by the way, I have known at least 2 of these "yahoos" who would have thought of "Bounce Bait" as a cool new skydiving nickname! Sadly, I hear through the grapevine that one of them (who was given a similar nickname which he was quite poud of) now has a tandem rating, and the other finally sold his gear and given up on the sport.

sorry for the mini rant- just a sad topic, I guess.....

[GrumpySmurf 0]

Ditto on that thought. I was one of those people when I started with IAD - then moved to AFP, and the problem with de-arching went away.
If the person is willing to listen and the teachers are up to the task to teach them, I agree they can make a great skydiver. But if they don't want to listen and get really defensive about thier mistakes (to the point of refusing to even consider they even made a mistake), avoid them in the air at all costs?

[tigra 0]

I would say, yes, avoid them in the air. Don't get on loads with them, and warn your friends, especially newer jumpers. The more experienced jumpers will see it for themselves. There is a big difference between a "challenging" student and an "experienced" jumper who is dangerous and refuses to learn. The "experienced" jumper is shrugging off more experienced jumpers and instructors who are trying to help and trying to prevent an accident waiting to happen. To be fair, a lot of jumpers go through a phase when they feel they are "bulletproof" and know it all. But some never get beyond it, and for some the wake up call comes too harshly and too late.

So, do what you can to stay safe and keep your friends safe, even if that means making a few waves and ruffling some feathers.

maura

[skydiventom 0]

We had a guy last year visit Elsinore from Las Vegas ( I think ). I thought his ego was huge with very few jumps. For some reason he cut away at a few hundred feet. I didn't even go look. I packed and thought about him, wondering if he had family alive and how it might effect them. My heart breaks sometimes...............

"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana" -Groucho Marx- "Tom flies like a rock" -Tom Carson-