do you have a proplem with gay jumpers

[Muenkel 0]

What I am seeing here, is that it is safe to be yourself overall. There are the few that are uncomfortable with your sexual orientation, but I think that has to do with an inferiority complex within them. The ones that are fortunate enough to be confident within themselves would never feel uncomfortable around you. I think you have guts to display who you are even though you don't know what people's reactions will be.

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Chris

[rgoper 0]

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yes, but Richard, what if it were me running to give you a big ol' kiss? Would you let me?

in a "new york minute!"

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(teasing you, Richard....)

by all means, continue then...........

--Richard--
"We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist"

[rgoper 0]

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I don't think everyone's enjoying this discussion as much as some of us are.

your the one who voluntarily "came out of the closet" i don't recall anyone requesting it. personally, i actually think everyone is going to do what theyre going to do, it doesn't matter who thinks what. but WHY must one who lives an "alternative" lifestyle bring attention to it? there's some things a man has just got to keep to himself! and what a fella DON'T know CAN'T hurt him. theres no sense in bringing attention to a subject such as this, that may only lead to hurt feelings.

--Richard--
"We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist"

[SBS 0]

The ones that are fortunate enough to be confident within themselves would never feel uncomfortable around you.

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I agree in theory, but the sad fact is that there are some that just straight up hate gays. I think your statement holds true a good deal of the time, but just because someone is secure or insecure will not always dictate how treat other people and what they consider to be right and wrong (referring to some thinking that homosexuality is a choice and that it is wrong).

-S

_____________
I'm not conceited...I'm just realistic about my awesomeness...

[narcimund 0]

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your the one who voluntarily "came out of the closet" i don't recall anyone requesting it.

Richard, if you never ever mention liking girls, never bring a girlfriend to the DZ, never hold hands with a girl, or marry a girl, then I'll stay in the closet. Fair?

To be perfectly clear, I don't think I "came out of the closet." Instead, I brought my boyfriend to the DZ because he thought he'd like to make some jumps. Turns out he liked it a lot and he's now a regular (just made jump #50.)

We're gay (duh!) and it shows. We'd have to go to some effort to hide it just like you'd have to go to effort to bring a girlfriend to the DZ every week without people figuring out you're a couple.

We do not make out in the packing tent, but neither do we pretend we're "just buddies." Is it your opinion that we should do something differently?

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[SBS 0]

but WHY must one who lives an "alternative" lifestyle bring attention to it?

--------------------

I believe that the way he came out of the closet to us was in talking about his boyfriend's canopy issue. He joined in this discussion because it specifically involved a demographic in which he happens to fall.

So, if your girlfriend had a problem with her canopy, would you have a problem with posting that "My girlfriend's toggle came off this weekend!"? Or would you say, "This friend that I have who is a girl had a toggle come off this weekend!"? There is a point where people find things out about people, which includes if they are single, dating, married, gay, straight, black, white, etc. I didn't see him make a big deal out of it, you seem to be the one that is making it an issue.

Don't ask, don't tell...bullshit! Be yourself, and allow others to do the same without criticizing them for doing so.

-S

_____________
I'm not conceited...I'm just realistic about my awesomeness...

[Muenkel 0]

Steve,

You do make a very good point.

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Chris

[Deuce 1]

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Richard, if you never ever mention liking girls, never bring a girlfriend to the DZ, never hold hands with a girl, or marry a girl, then I'll stay in the closet. Fair?

Ka-pow. No, not fair.

But if Richard did not want to associate with homosexuals, and formed an exclusive club where he could be comfortable around hetorosexual people and closeted homosexuals and denied membership to the openly gay, would you allow it? Would you participate in the P/C condemnation that would rain down on him?

Freedom of speech doesn't mean others must be forced to listen.

[rgoper 0]

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Richard, if you never ever mention liking girls, never bring a girlfriend to the DZ, never hold hands with a girl, or marry a girl, then I'll stay in the closet. Fair?

not to go off on a different "tangent" here, but, God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve. i thought i made it perfectly clear that people are going to do what theyre going to do, as long as it does not infringe on me, personally, i really don't care. we've got a couple of guys at our dz that are "living alternative lifestyles" they don't go around telling everybody about it, and we jump with them. no problem. a good friend of mine in high school was gay, and in Giddings, Texas this is simply NOT ACCEPTABLE, especially back in the 70's. things have lightned up considerably since then. when i go to work on my drilling rig, trust me, there's alway a couple of guys that are different, and we cannot, and do not treat them differently, but they do not go out of there way to make the whole rig aware of it either, and i don't go making everyone aware that i've got 4 children, and a granson either. whatever you do, here's wishing you the best...always!

--Richard--
"We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist"

[SBS 0]

Richard, if you never ever mention liking girls, never bring a girlfriend to the DZ, never hold hands with a girl, or marry a girl, then I'll stay in the closet. Fair?

---------------

Perfectly fair...I have the right to be openly hetero, you have the right to be openly gay. Don't expect me to enjoy it if I have to see you kiss, but I have no right (or desire) to stop you.

Here is the problem I do have with gays. On the surface, it would seem that it would be a good thing for heteros, cause it's one more lady available to the male population. On the other hand, though, they take more than their fair share, cause chicks love to hang out with gay guys. So, although they may come to us for sexual satisfaction, we are "never as sensative as their gay friend". Can we work on that please? Then, I would have no remaining problem with gay people.

:-)

Steve

_____________
I'm not conceited...I'm just realistic about my awesomeness...

[skydiverbrian 0]

WOW! Look at what I missed out on by going to work today.

I am honestly surprised to find (1) a few gay skydivers here and (2) a general attitude of "whatever floats your boat".

Narcimund makes very intelligent points and I'm jealous of him cuz he has a boyfriend who skydives. As even most heteros jumpers will agree, finding a significant other who jumps is not that easy.

My experience has always been positive. Skydivers are very embracing of differences and welcoming to those with them. So even if you have green hair, tattoos, and a nose ring, as long as you're cool, I'll jump with you. Even if you're straight.

In a world full of people, only some want to fly... isn't that crazy! --Seal

[narcimund 0]

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Ka-pow. No, not fair.

But if Richard did not want to associate with homosexuals, and formed an exclusive club where he could be comfortable around hetorosexual people and closeted homosexuals and denied membership to the openly gay, would you allow it? Would you participate in the P/C condemnation that would rain down on him?

Strange analogy. Let's backtrack a second.

Richard suggested that homosexuals should remain silent and closeted about who they are attracted to. I suggested (in jest only) that if he would remain silent and closeted, I would also. My point was that homosexuals keeping their sexuality hidden is just like heterosexuals keeping all sexuality hidden.

However, your new idea of a homosexual-free club is a new and interesting one. Would I allow it? I have no say over it. Would I join it? No, I wouldn't be allowed to nor would it interest me. Would I tell people I thought it was silly? Yes, I might.

I haven't said anyone is forced to listen, so I'm not sure what you're objecting to. All I've done is spoken (fairly gently, I think). Richard has suggested that I and others like me shouldn't do that.

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[Muenkel 0]

Richard,

This thread really is not about religious beliefs. It is about whether or not we can treat all people equally in the skydiving community. As a Catholic, I have always been taught to treat ALL people with respect and reserve judgement. If I am to meet narcimund or Keith, I would treat them as I would treat anyone else. Their standing with God is between them and God, not me. Once again, this is only my personal belief as a Catholic.

_________________________________________
Chris

[freebird 0]

YOU TOOK THE WORDS RIGHT OUT OF MY MOUTH RGOPER

[AndyMan 7]

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I haven't said anyone is forced to listen, so I'm not sure what you're objecting to. All I've done is spoken (fairly gently, I think). Richard has suggested that I and others like me shouldn't do that.

And that's really pretty disapointing, but I am not surprised.

Skydivers ARE just cool. The little DZ where I started was a pretty cool place. Bikers, blacks, tatoo-covered freaks, and everyone else hung out around a bonfire, and not only got along - but were really close friends. I can't think of any other activity that I've taken part in, where so many different people from so many different backgrounds, get togeather, and don't just tolerate each other, but actually accept each other as one of our own.

It's not about tollerance, it's not about "yeah, you can do your own thing, but don't let me know about it". It's about valueing people for WHO THEY ARE, because we're such a tight community.

I said this in private a few days ago, I think it's awesome that these guys had the courage to tell us about themselves. They risked a lot by doing it, and I for one, applaud their courage.

Narc: it seems like you got your wish.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[moodyskydiver 0]

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Damn, Richard.....you shoulda' been in the pub last night....a cute little thang had her strap on all warmed up and waitin' for ya!

I'm going to plead the Fifth Ammendment on this one Lindz.....

"...just an earthbound misfit, I."

[MarkM 0]

I don't understand all of this "openly gay" crap. I live in Fort Lauderdale and I can guarantee you there's plenty of gays here. But never in the 2 years I've been here has anyone ever came up to me and said, "Hi I'm Tom and I'm gay".

A couple guys holding hands in public is in no way forcing their gayness onto you. Can it make you feel uncomfortable if you're not used to it? Sure.

Well guess what, I don't date and to be frank watching a hetero couple make out in public can be real annoying if you're single. But that's my problem, not the problem of the couple.

If you walk outside, watch tv, or interact with the world you're gonna get exposed to things that make you uncomfortable. But don't treat your problem as their problem.

[Muenkel 0]

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tatoo-covered freaks

Do you think that the tatoo-covered people are upset that you are calling them freaks?

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Chris

[narcimund 0]

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Narc: it seems like you got your wish.

Andy, yeah, I did.

BTW, I usually like the abbreviation "Narci" better than "Narc".

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[freeflyswc 0]

Just for the record , I am not gay , I do not kiss guys , nor have I ever questioned my sexuality .
My friend Kelly (aka) Skygod7777 posted this thread under my username to piss me off . I gave him my password to try to win 40% off a precision canopy when beezee was having a kid , and you had to guess what time the baby would be born and what sex it was . Since then I hadn't changed my password (until now). So Kelly ,F#@^ you


Hook low , flare late
Crash & Vern

[SBS 0]

Everyone,

We need to rally together and refuse to allow our friend to go back into the closet.

You're out now, you don't have to be scared anymore.

:-)

Steve

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I'm not conceited...I'm just realistic about my awesomeness...

[Deuce 1]

Narci, here in San Francisco, it's not tolerated for anyone to openly state that they find homosexuality offensive.

If a person is at the Gay/lesbian/transgender/bi(I'm still leaving a group out I think) parade and expresses distaste, they are universally and roundly condemned for their intolerance, and nobody seems to realize how intolerant that is.

Why is a heterosexual club silly? There are gay youth clubs, but the look at what's happened to the Boy Scouts for their position.

If you and your partner lip-lock on Market Street in San Francisco, only the tourists will notice. Some may ask to take a picture with you

Yes, you have been reasonable and gentle in your responses, you seem like an alright guy. You don't seem like a person who's going to go into a DZ in Texas, lay down on the couch with your partner and make out, and then get all snotty and snap "what're you looking at?"

Smart, articulate discussions are a pain.

16 hours to load 1.

[christoofar 0]

This thread has quite an erection. Did someone spill viagra in y'alls milk?

____________________________________________________________
I'm RICK JAMES! Fo shizzle.

[lummy 4]

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Narci, here in San Francisco, it's not tolerated for anyone to openly state that they find homosexuality offensive.

I'd have to disagree with that comment. In the San Francisco Bay area, People are generally accepting and open minded when it comes to sexuality, race, religion, etc... And I feel that it also promotes acceptance of one's individuality. Because people can feel comfortable being themselves, they act like theirselves. Because people are free to be and act how they feel comfotable, the closet bigots realize that their fears are ungrounded and that people who are different in some respects are in FACT a lot like them.

There ARE people everywhere who openly state that homosexuality is offensive.

Bumper sticker posted on the cube next to mine.

I don't mind Straight people,
as long as they act GAY in public

I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. eat sushi, get smoochieTTK#1

[mouth 0]

I haven't read the entire thread but I totally agree

"PENISES"

hum....maybe we could see some????

Relax guys ...it's all in fun

--
Hot Mama
At least you know where you stand even if it is in a pile of shit.