rhino 0 #76 March 11, 2003 Proves the bottom line.. The only way he will disarm is if we disarm him.. End of story.. Rhino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot90 0 #77 March 11, 2003 QuoteAs far as Hans is concerned? The investigators aren't even investigators. They are shown what Iraq wants to show them. They are not trained in finding WMD's.. It now seems even Hans hands are not clean with him trying to hide the drones in the middle of his report. Also heard a report about the French selling parts for Iraq's combat aircraft as little as 3 weeks ago. The inspections are not to find WMD but to verify the WMD's destruction. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,123 #78 March 11, 2003 QuoteA number of weeks ago Blix did not even know these things existed. What might he know in more time? I seriously doubt it is any better. He also quite clearly stated that he thinks Saddam is lying through his teeth, and that he intends to hide as much as he can. He's not stupid. Not being American doesn't automatically make you stupid and blind. Blix just thinks there are still avenues that will lead to disarmament that will result in fewer deaths than a war against Iraq. Consider this -- the longer Iraq continues to destroy missiles, the fewer there are to launch against troops attacking if we do end up going in. That would be a good thing, right? Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot90 0 #79 March 11, 2003 QuoteHolding off the killing for a few weeks isn't the end of the world You give him more time to prepare. It's past time to move. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyingferret 0 #80 March 11, 2003 QuoteBlix just thinks there are still avenues that will lead to disarmament that will result in fewer deaths than a war against Iraq. Has he said that? I have no idea my personal feeling was that he did not like him any more than we did, but that his job did not allow him to make policy. QuoteConsider this -- the longer Iraq continues to destroy missiles, the fewer there are to launch against troops attacking if we do end up going in. That would be a good thing, right? In theory yes. However, I think the damage was done weeks ago. He has had weeks to prepare forces. Anything he wants to deploy is being done behind the scenes. Unfortunately, it was necessary to give him the time to do this, otherwise public outcry would have been even worse.-- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jraf 0 #81 March 11, 2003 Robert ypu keep ticking...have you swallowed Captain Hook's alarm clock....you naughty boy you jraf Me Jungleman! Me have large Babalui. Muff #3275 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #82 March 11, 2003 >I wonder who supplied that video? Iraq? UNMOVIC. You know, the people we sent in to do the inspections. >I saw video of them welding the exhaust plumes off of the rockets. Welding joins metal together; exhaust plumes are the gases that come out of a rocket's non-pointy end when it's flying. I think you might have been confused by whatever you saw. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #83 March 11, 2003 >It now seems even Hans hands are not clean with him trying to >hide the drones in the middle of his report. Didn't you yourself say that the US government had to hide certain information from the UN to protect their sources? Or are there things that only the US is allowed to do? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diver123 0 #84 March 11, 2003 What kind of message does that send to any others who may have intent to do harm in the future? It's like putting someone on probation, them violating said probation time and time again, and continuing to say, "it's okay, don't worry about it. I'll just wait until you do something worse before I care". That's the same stance we took prior to 9/11 and look where it got us. It's your denial and inability to stand behind an internationally agreed upon resolution, in large part, that has us facing a tougher than necessary situation. "pull high! It's lower than you think..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diver123 0 #85 March 11, 2003 "I'd like to think out intelligence agencies would know long before he actually had something like that operational." I liked to think similar things just before the twin towers exploded killing thousands of our people! "pull high! It's lower than you think..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #86 March 11, 2003 >It's like putting someone on probation, them violating said probation > time and time again, and continuing to say, "it's okay, don't worry > about it. I'll just wait until you do something worse before I care". What we're doing instead is saying "you promised you wouldn't do any drugs, but you did, so we're going to kill you." A more reasonable approach would be to search his place, take the drugs away, and force him to take drug tests once a month. That way the objective (no drugs) is met. Unless, of course, your goal was to kill the guy all along, and the no-drug thing was just a charade. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #87 March 11, 2003 QuoteWhat we're doing instead is saying "you promised you wouldn't do any drugs, but you did, so we're going to kill you." A more reasonable approach would be to search his place, take the drugs away, and force him to take drug tests once a month. That way the objective (no drugs) is met. Nice Bill, except that the original resolution said "serious consequences" if he didn't comply. You're a reasonable person, I'm a reasonable person, I have to assume that at least somebody on the UNSC is reasonable. What would a reasonable man be likely to think are 'serious consequences'? In the arena of interenational politics and the situation that brought about the original resolution I have to assume that serious consequences means war, not another resolution, followed by another resolution, followed by yet another.... The ideal time to act was YEARS ago, we can't do that, but we do need to act NOW. BTW: I've noticed that instead of speaking about the topic at hand you prefer to simplify things with analogies, in this case the drug reference. Is that because you don't believe that people understand the conversation or issues without your simplification, or is it because things seem a bit more ridiculous (but in your favor) when stated this way? - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #88 March 11, 2003 QuoteWelding joins metal together; exhaust plumes are the gases that come out of a rocket's non-pointy end when it's flying. I think you might have been confused by whatever you saw. Excuuuuuuse me.. LOL Whatever the exhaust nozzles are called.. Maybe exhaust nozzles.. lol Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,625 #90 March 11, 2003 QuoteQuoteWelding joins metal together; exhaust plumes are the gases that come out of a rocket's non-pointy end when it's flying. I think you might have been confused by whatever you saw. Excuuuuuuse me.. LOL Whatever the exhaust nozzles are called.. Maybe exhaust nozzles.. lol Don't you think that accuracy is important is discussing issues of war and peace? Or is it all just like a big video-game to you? "LOL" indeed.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
seedy 0 #91 March 11, 2003 Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Welding joins metal together; exhaust plumes are the gases that come out of a rocket's non-pointy end when it's flying. I think you might have been confused by whatever you saw. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Excuuuuuuse me.. LOL Methinks sometimes Mr. billvon has more fun stirring the pot than really caring about the argument. I intend to live forever -- so far, so good. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diver123 0 #92 March 11, 2003 Bill, I don't know you personally, but I'm sure you're a fine person. I do know from participating in this forum for nearly 2.5 years now that you're an intelligent man and have sound opinions about many things. As a matter of fact, even when I've disagreed with you in the past, you've always made a substantiated case behind your writings. However, this has got to be one of the weakest arguments I've ever heard. The bottom line is: all the things you and all the other people on here who are suggesting alternatives to the current course of action have forgotten that those same alternatives have already come to pass and have NOT worked. So you change them up a bit, paint em a different color, and say, "here try this one"... Your faith in the U.N. and it's sacred process and wisdom has fallen short just as it has. We've given him a definitive set of stipulations to comply with and he has not. I'd say that's about as Black and White as it gets. Since your such a big advocate of putting things into a frame of reference, try this one: Good friend of mine got himself in a very tough situation and asked if I could let him move in for a while until he found another place to say. I said absolutely, and we outlined some very specific rules and a maximum time that he could remain here until he would have to leave. That time has come and gone and he was asked to leave. Not because I wanted to place him back into the same situation or because I no longer cared about him, but because we made an aggreement that was clearly defined. It didn't feel good to do it, nor was it easy, but definitely necessary. I did not make the choice to wait until the last minute to start looking and put myself in a situation where I wouldn't have a place lined up. He did. "pull high! It's lower than you think..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #93 March 11, 2003 >Nice Bill, except that the original resolution said "serious > consequences" if he didn't comply. You're a reasonable person, I'm > a reasonable person, I have to assume that at least somebody on > the UNSC is reasonable. What would a reasonable man be likely to > think are 'serious consequences'? Complete ban on any exports/imports including the oil for food program. Or an armed force to accompany the inspectors. Or occupation of selected sites to prevent WMD manufacture. Or outright, blow-baghdad-to-bits-and-kill-thousands war. I actually assumed the third when I first heard about 1441. >I have to assume that serious consequences means war . . . Then say it. Don't weasel-word out of it. And if people argue over the language in 1441, pass one that says "war." Then there's no argument. >I've noticed that instead of speaking about the topic at hand you > prefer to simplify things with analogies, in this case the drug > reference. Because when other people make analogies I assume they want to use analogies. (see the original post - "it's like putting someone on probation . . .") If you prefer to not talk in analogies, no problem - don't use them. >or is it because things seem a bit more ridiculous (but in your favor) >when stated this way? I believe they are a bit ridiculous already. The "attack Iraq because Bin Laden attacked us" is pretty ridiculous in my mind, yet people here steadfastly defend that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tasadin 0 #94 March 11, 2003 Also slightly interesting that the video of the destruction of said banned missiles was determined by SH to be too sensitive to show to the iraqi people on Iraqi television. I wonder why that is then, perhaps because he's still telling them he has done absolutely nothing wrong??? "If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diver123 0 #95 March 11, 2003 "I believe they are a bit ridiculous already. The "attack Iraq because Bin Laden attacked us" is pretty ridiculous in my mind, yet people here steadfastly defend that."- Talk about presumptuous, blindly opinionated, and a strech, you've really set a new standard for ignorance with that one! This statement after all you've just acknowledged about the resolutions and S.H. not being in compliance? Then you turn, out of convenience, and reapply a new cause to bash our side of things... What a dissappointment you've come to be in a matter of sentences... "pull high! It's lower than you think..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #96 March 11, 2003 >. The bottom line is: all the things you and all the other people on > here who are suggesting alternatives to the current course of action > have forgotten that those same alternatives have already come to > pass and have NOT worked. And you seem to forget that our president, the man who everyone here seems to be rallying behind, is pressing the UN for a final resolution. Take your argument up with him. If he really does what he says he will i.e. pursue disarmament not war, and go through the UN - then he has my support. If you believe he wants to secretly blow Iraq to bits, then that's your belief, one not borne out by anything he's said. And if you just want to blow Iraq to bits for some other reason, then please, just say that and we can talk about that. We are in the endgame. Hussein has a final chance to disarm; I think everyone knows that he probably won't use it, which means war. We can go to war with the force of the entire world behind us, and fulfull our obligations as a member of the UN, or we can go in alone. We can take the time to do it right or we can just flip off the rest of the world and prove to them that we don't care about the democratic process, or international law, or the UN. Which will leave the world a better place for our children? You will get your war either way. Why not make sure that we don't alienate the rest of the planet along the way? It will cost us only time, and the potential rewards in terms of the future of peace are huge. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #97 March 11, 2003 >Talk about presumptuous, blindly opinionated, and a strech . . . I understood about six words in that one. What were you trying to say? That no one believes in "attack Iraq to revenge 9/11?" Several people, right here, have said just that - look up Michele's post on the subject. That's a ridiculous reason to propose war. He had nothing to do with 9/11. That he's in violation of 1441? He surely is. That's a good reason to propose war. How to go about it is what we're discussing. >What a dissappointment you've come to be in a matter of sentences... Somehow after a string of incomplete sentences I don't find that a very stinging rebuke. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diver123 0 #98 March 11, 2003 Considering my newly assigned title of an illiterate, please bear wit me as Ie try to get a REspoNse togesher... I'll give you a less than perfect ability in English and composition, however, I could care less what Billy Bob said to you last Friday around the campfire! I'm speaking in regard to the conversation I'm having with you and the things that we've said to one another. I'll repeat myself one last time for your benefit. I firmly stand behind the policy put forth by 1441 and my belief that S.H. has clearly defied the stipulations within. The same stipulations that you're proposing we offer him as a "final opportunity". Anti up and stand behind the U.N. resolution, created by the same entity you swear behind in your writings. "pull high! It's lower than you think..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #99 March 11, 2003 More boobies... Attached is all I have to say... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JJohnson 0 #100 March 11, 2003 That is an understatement.JJ "Call me Darth Balls" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
