George Bush Resume

[billvon 2,435]

>I think this quote bears repeating.

And I think that if, at the end of my life, the worst thing I did was to lie about an affair in a (failed) attempt to keep my wife from finding out - I'll be doing pretty well.

[MrHixxx 0]

Easy Sport, yer all wound up. I didn't author the list, I just passed it on because it was food for thought. Judging by your painfully tired reply, you had to think too. Pat yourself on the back for thinking, but don't have that beer yer gonna need those brain cells friend.

I have voted every election since I have been registered, though I am admittedly a little less self-righteous about it. I even tried to join the military when I was younger, but was refused for medical reasons. I consider myself quite patriotic despite the embrassing shit we do on the international scene. I simply don't associate our current president with that which is American, more corporate fuedalist business self-interest. I never pledged allegiance to the monopolizing conglomorates that infect the United States of America.

By the way, there are several veterans in my family. Of them, my little sister, a combat experienced naval aviator. I don't need to go thanking them again. Just because our president hiijacked the military for his own gain doesn't mean I dis-approve of the military. The military did a good job, they did what they were trained to do.

-Hixxx

death,as men call him, ends what they call men
-but beauty is more now than dying’s when

[Ron 7]

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A single exception can disprove a rule, but only if the rule is a 100% rule. You live in the South, where for
generations the Democrats were what conservative southerners were. Because Lincoln was a Republican.

Some of the most closed-minded, dogmatic people I know are Republicans. That's just as meaningful, right?

Yep, but my comment....just as yours, is as flawed as his huh?

Fact is simple Dem, Reb, there are racists, biggots, crooks, slackers..ect.

To be honest, the only issue I have with the Dems is the whole give 'em something for nothing. I think it breeds lazy people.

If you look at just issues I can find things I like and hate about EVERY politican. The only reason I am republican is I hate supporting lazy people...I don't mind helping people who are trying, and have had bad luck...Only people who abuse the system.

So on that alone I will never vote Dem.

You want something...go earn it.

I don't pretend that Rebs are perfect....And I know they make bad choices. But they are more likley to let me keep what I earn.

And as for Bush v Clinton.

Bush did bad shit years ago...
Clinton lied in office.

I am a forgiving guy....I don't hold Monica agaist Clinton anymore...And I would like to think that the left would not hold things agaist Bush that happened 20 years ago.

But it seems to be ok for the left to slam the right all day. As soon as the right hits the left...we are racist, or biggots.

Funny huh?

Ron

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[sinker 0]

perjury is still perjury no matter WHAT THE FUCK IT WAS ABOUT. If it was about a lousy little incidental affair that had nothing whatsoever to do w/ his ability to run a nation (which I think it DOES), then why did he lie about it? His willingness to lie about "little things" (under oath) says lots about his possible willingness to lie about bigger things. Perjury is perjury. Period. End of sentence.

-the artist formerly known as sinker

[jfields 0]

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Bush did bad shit years ago...
Clinton lied in office.

I am a forgiving guy....I don't hold Monica agaist Clinton anymore...And I would like to think that the left would not hold things agaist Bush that happened 20 years ago.

I'm not condoning Clintons lies in any way. But the problem with your analysis is that Bush has done bad things last week, last month and last year. So it isn't all old history to be brushed away. It is current and relevant to the way our country is being run.

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But it seems to be ok for the left to slam the right all day. As soon as the right hits the left...we are racist, or biggots.

Leaving racism and biggotry aside, the general republican stance has been pretty pro-war, despite the ever-more ominous lack of evidence substantiating the reasons we were told. Are the things Bush told the American people perjury too? If not, it is getting close.

I don't like liars in either party, but given both, I'd rather have one lie about where is penis has or hasn't been, than about justifications for a war that actually happens and costs hundreds of American lives in addition to dramatically damaging our national credibility.

[SkyDekker 1,147]

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Perjury is perjury. Period. End of sentence.

very true, and from previous posts I seem to remember that you like Bush. Isn't desertion desertion? Or since it was long ago, desertion doesn't matter anymore?

[Ron 7]

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Easy Sport, yer all wound up. I didn't author the list, I just passed it on because it was food for thought.

No you passed it on to spout the same old left crap, that we hear all the time.

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Judging by your painfully tired reply,

Just like your tired attacks.

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I
consider myself quite patriotic despite the embrassing shit we do on the international scene. I simply don't
associate our current president with that which is American, more corporate fuedalist business
self-interest. I never pledged allegiance to the monopolizing conglomorates that infect the United States of
America.

And I was not happy that the former prez used the office as a dating service.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Muenkel 0]

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perjury is still perjury no matter WHAT THE FUCK IT WAS ABOUT. If it was about a lousy little incidental affair that had nothing whatsoever to do w/ his ability to run a nation (which I think it DOES), then why did he lie about it? His willingness to lie about "little things" (under oath) says lots about his possible willingness to lie about bigger things. Perjury is perjury. Period. End of sentence.

Once again Michael, your quote bears repeating.
Chris

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Chris

[SkyDekker 1,147]

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Once again Michael, your quote bears repeating.

Chris, question for you. What does it say about a man to desert the military?

[sinker 0]

I like some things Bush has done, I don't like others. I don't vote down party lines. Those that do tend to be myopic in my opinion. Truth and principles govern my decisions, not political party affiliation. I was not aware that Bush had deserted. If he did, then yes I have no problem denouncing him for that. I also denounce him for all the people who have been executed in the state of Texas. I am not universally against the death penalty, but too many case have popped up in recent years wherein the guilt of the "dead man walking" was in question. The moritorium on executions that Illinois did was, IMHO, a very good thing.

So, you cannot accuse me of being hypocritical in this area. Sorry.

(edited for spelling, or is that editted... ah, fuck it)

-the artist formerly known as sinker

[sinker 0]

thanks chris

-the artist formerly known as sinker

[sinker 0]

If he did desert, that means ALOT! Can someone give me more info on this? This is the first I've ever heard of it.

-the artist formerly known as sinker

[SkyDekker 1,147]

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So, you cannot accuse me of being hypocritical in this area. Sorry

Not at all what I was trying to do. It is just a situation that I do not understand and I am asking those who are directly influenced by it (the american people) for clarification.

[Muenkel 0]

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And I think that if, at the end of my life, the worst thing I did was to lie about an affair in a (failed) attempt to keep my wife from finding out - I'll be doing pretty well.

Once again Bill, it's called perjury. A lie is a lie, period. Yeah we can argue that some are worse than others, but it's still a lie. I expect the President of the United States, no matter what his/her party affiliation, to maintain certain standards. We teach toddlers that lieing is wrong. Do they do it? Yes, but it is still wrong.

Chris

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Chris

[jfields 0]

Chris,

I agree that lying is wrong. But if we are looking at it as far as presidents go, as I replied to Ron, isn't it looking like Bush lied about the whole WMD thing? If we see that they both lied, we can agree that they were both wrong, but doesn't the subject about which they were lying have some importance?

[Muenkel 0]

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If he did desert, that means ALOT! Can someone give me more info on this? This is the first I've ever heard of it.

I think Michael and I are on the same wavelength here. When did he desert? I'd like to know the facts on this also.

Chris

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Chris

[wmw999 2,150]

A lie (unless it's about national security I assume) would clearly be a real hot point to you. Can you accept that others' values might be such that they think there are things that might be at least important? That the reason for the lie (what if they asked him how much he weighed under oath?) matters.

I expect the President to lie if needed when asked about things that are part of national security. I expect him to have a thick enough skin to say "I can't talk about that" and then stick to it for things that can tolerate that (sometimes not answering a question about national security is too much information).

I also expect him to know when it's necessary, and not use the "I can't talk about it for national security reasons" as a crutch.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[sinker 0]

sorry if I misunderstood you, but it seemed to me that you were trying to accuse me of having a double standard with regards to these issues, which I agree, many people have. Again, if that wasn't your intent, please accept apologies.

for me it all has to do w/ thinking for yourself and using the intelligence you were (hopefully) born with. People on the left often accuse people on the right, (esp. right-winging christians) that they follow the herd, cannot think for themselves, etc. But you know, people on the left often do the same exact thing -- vote down party lines. this applies to the issue of excusing a member of one's own party of certain mistakes/sins/lapses in judgement/poor choices but crucifying members of the opposite party who do the same damn thing. Infidelity is infidelity. Perjury is perjury. Desertion IS desertion, I don't care WHO did it.

-the artist formerly known as sinker

[sinker 0]

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And I think that if, at the end of my life, the worst thing I did was to lie about an affair in a (failed)
attempt to keep my wife from finding out - I'll be doing pretty well.

Sorry my friend, then I'd have to say your standards are set too low.

-the artist formerly known as sinker

[wmw999 2,150]

A lot of the records are, ummm, sketchy. He was not convicted of desertion in a time of war. However, when he was posted to a base in (I believe) Alabama, he kind of never showed up, and helped to campaign for someone instead during the time he was supposed to be active in the Reserves.

Of course, you have to look at some fairly viciously anti-Bush-partisan websites to research this, because the conservative-partison ones don't address it. Here is one of them Awol Bush website. Again, this is pretty viciously anti-Bush, so you have to look toward the bottom for the documentation. There are copies in there for you to look at.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[billvon 2,435]

>A lie is a lie, period.

Oh, I agree 100%. He was wrong. I've lied before and regretted it later. Like I said, if I get to the end of my life and that's my greatest regret, I will consider myself to be pretty lucky.

>I expect the President of the United States, no matter what his/her
>party affiliation, to maintain certain standards.

So would desertion be OK, but lying not be OK? Bush has told a handful of lies as well, which doesn't suprise me; it's what politicians _do_. They make campaign promises and don't follow through.

[sinker 0]

you're assuming, I think, that if WMD's are not found, that GWB lied about it. There are more possible reasons for why WMD's may not be found. Just b/c they aren't found doesn't ipso facto mean that he lied about it.

-the artist formerly known as sinker

[billvon 2,435]

>Sorry my friend, then I'd have to say your standards are set too low.

Ah well, different people have different standards. I would consider lying to my wife less of a moral failing than killing ten thousand people - and then having people find out that the stated reason I did it did not exist.

[Muenkel 0]

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I agree that lying is wrong. But if we are looking at it as far as presidents go, as I replied to Ron, isn't it looking like Bush lied about the whole WMD thing? If we see that they both lied, we can agree that they were both wrong, but doesn't the subject about which they were lying have some importance?

The act of lieing is not against the law. Lieing under oath is. This is the issue. Committing perjury is unlawful, which goes against the oath of the President of the United States. Now, if it is proven that GWB lied about WMD's, I would be very disturbed by it. I would be the first one to call for congressional hearings. And if he lies under oath during those hearings, then impeachment is in order. Personally, I think it is way too early to conclude that there were no WMD in Iraq. And yes, if I had to pick between lies president's tell, I would rather they lied about an affair.

Chris

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Chris

[sinker 0]

yeah Bill, we all lie. We've all lied. But we should try not to. We should ESPECIALLY try not to if we have taken an oath not to. Whether that oath be towards being faithful to one's spouse or to telling the truth under oath before the court. Unfortunately, lies and infidelities are so common place that we have denegrated the importance of truth and fidelity. Just b/c everyone's doing it doesn't make it any less abhorant, any less wrong.

-the artist formerly known as sinker