diablopilot 2 #26 February 13, 2012 Your arrogance is impressive.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RIGGER 0 #27 February 13, 2012 Thanks for the post. There is no qustion that the FAA can do it & approve for use any part of the parachute. I'm sorry but IMO if a rigger have an idea for retrofit he/she should approch the mfg. first. One more point - a process being legal in the USA could be not legal in a different country or such a modifiction could be refused to be I&R by riggers for not being in the Mfg. Manual. I have no idea if or what tests Ray Ferrell did or the FAA did or it was based on drawings & proof of working on other h/c, the approval was given to Ray Ferrell only. Why this left side RSL retrofit should be done when RWS/UPT have a ready to set V2 RSL retrofit kit. RWS / UPT put the RSL on the right side for a reason based on R&D & tests. Bill Booth if your are reading the post please put your input for the history of the V2 RSL. Cheers Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 3 #28 February 13, 2012 FWIW this is the original routing for the RSL."I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverek 55 #29 February 13, 2012 Why did Ray Farrel do it in the first place? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 3 #30 February 13, 2012 QuoteWhy did Ray Farrel do it in the first place? I hadn't thought to ask him, but I think it may have been to make it a more standard setup so if you dropped your handles, you could replace them with generic type, not the exact specific RSL/ripcord assembly from UPT."I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverek 55 #31 February 13, 2012 QuoteRWS / UPT put the RSL on the right side for a reason based on R&D & tests. From UPT Bill Booth: "If you are towing your malfunction because of a poorly designed RSL, then you are probably going to have a really hard time pulling your reserve handle. In other words, the towed malfunction will quite possibly "lock up" your reserve ripcord cable because of the kink it is putting in it. This is why I designed an RSL that is directly connected to the reserve ripcord pin 25 years ago. I did not patent it, so it is "free" for everyone to use. I simply cannot understand why the "cable through ring" RSL system, which also damages your ripcord cable every time as well, is still in use today." AND "We just went through this in the military test program to "certify" the Skyhook. At first they insisted on a "cable-through-ring" type RSL, instead of our direct-connect type. I couldn't talk them out of it, because that is what they have been using on other rigs for years. So I said, "OK, let's test it." On two out of the three bag lock tests, they towed the bag lock, once for over 1,000 feet. Single sided, cable-through-ring RSL's are simply no longer acceptable, because a safer alternative exists. The funny thing is, I designed my "direct-connect" RSL over 25 years ago, and never patented it...yet very few other companies use it...even though the design is free, and has been "tested" on literally 1,000's of actual cutaways." AND "I put my RSL on the right side, because every broken riser I've ever seen was the left one. And before the Collin's lanyard, if one riser broke, you certainly didn't want it to be the RSL side, did you? The left riser breaks because almost everyone looks over their right shoulder as they throw the pilot chute, to watch the deployment. This puts the left shoulder low, and effectively shortens the left line groups by a foot, causing the majority of the initial opening shock to be taken by the left riser. You can easily see this effect if you look at graphs of load comparisons on left and right risers during opening shock. The left riser often receives twice the load of the right. Moral to the story: Don't look over either shoulder during opening. If you've gotta look...look straight up." AND "RSL's are on the left on most rigs because they use a ripcord cable-through-ring type of RSL. The Vector, Micron, and Sigma use my direct pull RSL system, with the ripcord pin attached directly to the end of the RSL. This type of design doesn't damage the ripcord cable everytime it is used like the cable- through-ring design does." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RIGGER 0 #32 February 13, 2012 Thanks for that. I heard that from Bill in the past. I saw few years ago a V2 here arrived from the USA with a right side RSL retrofit which was UN SAFE & RISKY by all means. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3744777;#3744777 The best way IMO for retrofit a V2 is to have the RWS/UPT kit with all parts & drawing & let the work made by a Master Rigger - now the retrofit is Mfg. / FAA approved & it is in the Mfg. Manual. Cheers Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RiggerLee 61 #33 February 13, 2012 Some body help me out my memory is going. Didn't the LOR system or some thing like that use a Booth style RSL pin. One from each side. I want to say that it was an Atom container. Did they ever use a single sided RSL like that? What about some of the other vector clones? A lot of people were ripping off booths designs back then. What about the Xerox how did it work it's RSL? I also have seen Javelin style RSL's on Vector 2's I remember one at quency. Guy showed up with it and he actually had the paper work for the mod. There is a guy out there that has been approved by a FSDO to retrofit them. I talked it over with Wag at the time and even called home to Stanford and we decided to go ahead and sign it off. I don't recall what the rig looked like though. I wonder if that was the one? LeeLee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrigger1 2 #34 February 14, 2012 Quote "We just went through this in the military test program to "certify" the Skyhook. At first they insisted on a "cable-through-ring" type RSL, instead of our direct-connect type. I couldn't talk them out of it, because that is what they have been using on other rigs for years. So I said, "OK, let's test it." On two out of the three bag lock tests, they towed the bag lock, once for over 1,000 feet. Bill probably failed to mention that this was a tandem system. There is simply not enough pull force after the drogue is collasped to operate the system effectively. The Sigma already has some issues with the RSL vs collasped drogue scenerio..... http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=4155226;page=1;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25; Every design has it's Pros and Cons. This is just one of them. The other is that if you simply pull the reserve ripcord on a UPT system, usually the ripcord will not pull through the ripcord housing with the reserve pin still in place. Some people will look at that as a plus because you did not lose the RC. Others will look at the dangling handle as something to become entangled with the reserve during an unstable deployment. As I stated before both systems have their own unique issues. Cheers, MELSkyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 3 #35 February 14, 2012 Quote This is just one of them. The other is that if you simply pull the reserve ripcord on a UPT system, usually the ripcord will not pull through the ripcord housing with the reserve pin still in place. What do you mean?"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RIGGER 0 #36 February 14, 2012 Yes, PdF LOR system use 2 SS pins with 2 special Cypres loops. The pins are connected to the LOR lanyards L & R. Each Mfg. has his own RSL - so you can see different kinds on different h/c. Cheers Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mark 102 #37 February 14, 2012 QuoteQuote This is just one of them. The other is that if you simply pull the reserve ripcord on a UPT system, usually the ripcord will not pull through the ripcord housing with the reserve pin still in place. What do you mean? If the RSL does not open the reserve container (total malfunction, or partial without the RSL hooked up), then the RSL pin usually stays in the marine eye at the end of the ripcord cable. The ripcord then jams the RSL pin against the reserve ripcord housing, and the ripcord can't be pulled any farther. So far, this has not been a problem. In an unstable deployment, a dropped reserve ripcord becomes a snag hazard. This was a problem in the ancient past, when gravel ban plugs (Para-Gear M5950) prevented main ripcords from coming all the way out. Some folks liked the idea of not having to worry about dropped ripcords. Some folks found out that it was not a good idea to have floating ripcords in the same area as their deploying chest reserves. Mark Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 3 #38 February 14, 2012 Isn't that the purpose of the velcro on the RSL/flap, so the pin rotates and allows the ripcord to come all the way out?"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverek 55 #39 February 14, 2012 QuoteIsn't that the purpose of the velcro on the RSL/flap, so the pin rotates and allows the ripcord to come all the way out? From UPT Bill Booth on this: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1010403;search_string=velcro%20pin%20rotate;#1010403 and http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1483959;search_string=velcro%20pin%20rotate;#1483959 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mark 102 #40 February 14, 2012 QuoteIsn't that the purpose of the velcro on the RSL/flap, so the pin rotates and allows the ripcord to come all the way out? Yes, that is the intention of the design. Mark Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fcajump 153 #41 February 15, 2012 FWIW - On at least one occasion during a ground deployment prior to repack, the velcro released and I experienced the cable-stop effect. If I had not known that could happen, and if I were in the air, it could have been very disconcerting until I realized that the canopy had actually deployed. (I would likely have pulled the pin through the housing sideways if necessary... ) Just something to know. JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 0 #42 February 15, 2012 Quote FWIW - On at least one occasion during a ground deployment prior to repack, the velcro released and I experienced the cable-stop effect. If I had not known that could happen, and if I were in the air, it could have been very disconcerting until I realized that the canopy had actually deployed. (I would likely have pulled the pin through the housing sideways if necessary... ) Just something to know. JW I had that happen on my first "real" cutaway on a PdF Atom. I kept pulling on the ripcord while the reserve was already open and flying Oh. OK... I was lucky to still have that ripcord upon landing ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
