DBlank 0 #1 February 8, 2012 I know that the Sunnto watches are popular and suitable for skydiving, but I was wondering if anyone had any experiance with some of the other ones. I was looking on eBay for a cheap replacement to the Sunnto I packed into my canopy. There are a lot of Casio Pathfinder line altimeter watches out there. Just wondering if anyone had experience with them? Or anything else, these seem to be used in hand gliding my main concern with getting something else is its update rate in free fall. Yes I'm cheap and I maybe shouldn't be, I am aware of all the arguments in the digital vs analog discussion, that's not the issue."Do you really want to take advice from the guy we call Tarmac?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #2 February 8, 2012 Quote I know that the Sunnto watches are popular and suitable for skydiving Popular may be, but suitable This is not analog vs digital, rather than instrument vs gadget, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skywombat 0 #3 February 8, 2012 Analog vs digital is not the issue. The real issue is reliability, and in a broader sense, suitability for a specific purpose. Your concerns about update rate (and likely, latency) are legitimate. My advice: use the right tool for the job. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nigel99 144 #4 February 8, 2012 QuoteI know that the Sunnto watches are popular and suitable for skydiving, but I was wondering if anyone had any experiance with some of the other ones. I was looking on eBay for a cheap replacement to the Sunnto I packed into my canopy. There are a lot of Casio Pathfinder line altimeter watches out there. Just wondering if anyone had experience with them? Or anything else, these seem to be used in hand gliding my main concern with getting something else is its update rate in free fall. Yes I'm cheap and I maybe shouldn't be, I am aware of all the arguments in the digital vs analog discussion, that's not the issue. If you watch the classified's here there are often alti's for a good price. I paid $80 including shipping for mine and it was like new.Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
obelixtim 100 #5 February 8, 2012 Train the MK 1 eyeball......My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Joellercoaster 6 #6 February 8, 2012 Quote Train the MK 1 eyeball...... Excellent suggestion. Do you also have a suggestion for how he might do that, without having an altimeter in the first place?-- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 3 #7 February 8, 2012 Quote Quote Train the MK 1 eyeball...... Excellent suggestion. Do you also have a suggestion for how he might do that, without having an altimeter in the first place? Trial and error?"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
obelixtim 100 #8 February 8, 2012 QuoteExcellent suggestion. Do you also have a suggestion for how he might do that, without having an altimeter in the first place? Well he must have been jumping with one for the jumps he's done so far. When he does jumps in the future he can do several things to train his eyeball.... Look out of the aircraft on the way to altitude, noting the ground picture when he is at relevant altitudes. Note things like the size of objcts on the ground...buildings, cars, ants....... Look at the ground picture at relevant altitudes during the dive...breakoff, activation, hard deck.... During the dive he need not spend long doing this, as there are other important things to be looking at, but even a quick glance each time will begin to imprint the image on his brain. After a while the sight picture becomes a natual thing. I can do a jump from any altitude and not look at my altimeter at all, yet I will always be open withing 1 or 2 hundred feet of my opening altitude. Its a skill everyone should develop, because altimeters have been known to fail or get smashed on a dive. Believe it or not.....My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #9 February 8, 2012 QuoteDuring the dive he need not spend long doing this, as there are other important things to be looking at More important than altitude awareness? I'd love to know what that is.... QuoteI can do a jump from any altitude and not look at my altimeter at all, yet I will always be open withing 1 or 2 hundred feet of my opening altitude. Its a skill everyone should develop, because altimeters have been known to fail or get smashed on a dive. This is not a good myth to spread around. Maybe at your home DZ, or a few DZ where have a bunch of jumps, and maybe from the altituded you usually jump, but to assert that as a 'rule' which everyone should be able to follow is just wrong. Different types of jumps (freefly, RW, tracking) and from different altitudes will screw with even the most finely tuned internal clock. Add in differences in environment, such as going from hilly wooded terrian to flat barren desert, and it get's even worse. Claiming that people should be able to count on their eyeballs 100% of the time to a 99% reliability is bad advice. Should you keep an eye on the ground? Sure. Should you reference your alti against the ground every chance you get in order to train your eye as best as possible? Sure. Should you concinvce yourself you can spot the ground to within +/- 100ft anywhere on any jump? Nope. The real solution is to keep an eye on the ground, and your visual altitmeter. If there's a big difference, or you can tell that your alti has stopped working, then you shift toward referencing the alti of another jumper on your load. If you're doing a solo, shift your focus from your planned dive, and put it 100% on altitude awareness, and consider just pulling high, just to be safe. Ground rush is called that because the ground does rush up at you. It's called the doppler effect, and the closer you get, the faster the ground appears to move at you. The end result is that the ground may seem further away, and the rate you're approaching it may seem slow until you get too close, at which point it rushes up to all at once. Yes, train your eyeballs. In the event of an equipment failure, use your #1 instrument, your brain, and be smarter than your situation. Use all the resources available to you, cross reference them with each other, and chnage your expectations of the accuracy of any of them to err on the side of caution. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
obelixtim 100 #10 February 8, 2012 QuoteThis is not a good myth to spread around. Maybe at your home DZ, or a few DZ where have a bunch of jumps, and maybe from the altituded you usually jump, but to assert that as a 'rule' which everyone should be able to follow is just wrong. I think you took a little more from my post than I intended, it was just a little bit tongue in cheek, hence my reference to "ants", and the bit about important other things to be looking for during the jump. Your last 3 paragraphs of your post sums up pretty much what I was pointing out.... And yes, I can pretty much estimate my altitude pretty accurately, and that comes from jumps in many different places, and different jump disciplines as well. The Mk 1 eyeball is a pretty useful tool,My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratostar 5 #11 February 8, 2012 QuoteExcellent suggestion. Do you also have a suggestion for how he might do that, without having an altimeter in the first place? Yea its called falling out of the blue umbrella and into the green bowl. There is a point in free fall where you begin to go below the lip of the green bowl, in other words the horizon begins to become level with you or more out in front of you and it will begin to fill the peripheral vision more, and not below you like when in the blue umbrella and the blue fills the peripheral vision. It's easy to miss if you never looked for it before or noticed it. This starts to take place in the flat lands around 3k and below, once your @ 2 grand the earth look really big, but at 4 k it dose not. And if you can't tell you below 2k with eyes, then maybe you shouldn't be jumping, or at least without an AAD turn on. In places with mountains, you can use a land mark provided you know the altitude of said land mark, such as the pasture on the hill in E-snore (ask an oldtimer) Regardless, if your in the mountains and can't tell your getting really low into the valley, might not be a good idea to be a skydiver, or get you a AAD and turn it on.you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #12 February 8, 2012 Quote Quote Excellent suggestion. Do you also have a suggestion for how he might do that, without having an altimeter in the first place? Well he must have been jumping with one for the jumps he's done so far. When he does jumps in the future he can do several things to train his eyeball.... Look out of the aircraft on the way to altitude, noting the ground picture when he is at relevant altitudes. Note things like the size of objects on the ground...buildings, cars, ants....... Look at the ground picture at relevant altitudes during the dive...break-off, activation, hard deck.... During the dive he need not spend long doing this, as there are other important things to be looking at, but even a quick glance each time will begin to imprint the image on his brain. After a while the sight picture becomes a natural thing. I can do a jump from any altitude and not look at my altimeter at all, yet I will always be open withing 1 or 2 hundred feet of my opening altitude. Its a skill everyone should develop, because altimeters have been known to fail or get smashed on a dive. Believe it or not..... I do that every jump...always have and I agree, it weird how accurate you can get. My wife is a pilot and when we fly together, I always go ~ That's 2000', that's about 5500', we're a @ 10 grand now ~ it drive her nuts...I'm usually within 100' - HOW DO you DO that? It's not an 'internal clock' thing, it's a recognizing visual input thing...in fact, work to sharpen the skill and ya 'know' the internal clock is off. ~'wow, seems like I sure got down 'here' quicker than normal...better double check the wrist mount' ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
obelixtim 100 #13 February 9, 2012 Quote ...better double check the wrist mount' "D'oh...forgot the damn thing....again...."My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
