Sky Hook RSL - the discussion

[mountainman 0]

I was reading about this from the link provided in another thread and wondered what you all thought about it. It looks like a darn good idea and everything said about it sounds great from the website.

However, what are some of the drawbacks you guys can find with it ? Seems that it takes the fear of getting stable out of spinning mals and takes several hundred feet off a reserve deploying.

What do you guys think ?

http://www.brandonandlaura.com

[riggerrob 562]

Yeah!
Whatever mountainman said.

[SkydiveMonkey 0]

What's the potential for mis-rigging it?

____________________
Say no to subliminal messages

[diverdriver 5]

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What's the potential for mis-rigging it?

As much as misrigging anything else. Follow the directions.

Early in my rigging training I misrouted my closing loop -outside- of the cypres cutter. That's why we pack -under supervision- in the beginning. I've seen the sample skyhook at Winter Expo. As for how it sits in the rig when actually closed I don't know how hard it would be to mis-rig.

But, I have a new Micron on order with the Skyhook installed if that tells you anything about what I think of it.

Chris Schindler

[billvon 2,471]

>However, what are some of the drawbacks you guys can find with it ?

One drawback would be the greater potential for a mess if a riser broke; it might make sense to recommend a collins lanyard for any skyhook system. Overall, though, I think the pluses outweigh the minuses. (Caveat - the only experience I have with a system like this one is the Sorcerer, and that's a very different reserve-static-line system.)

[rigging65 0]

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However, what are some of the drawbacks you guys can find with it ?

I like the idea, but if you've got to have a Collin's Lanyard, then that sort of limits it's use to rigs with an RSL on the right side. Bummer....

"...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward.
For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

[diverdriver 5]

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>However, what are some of the drawbacks you guys can find with it ?

One drawback would be the greater potential for a mess if a riser broke; it might make sense to recommend a collins lanyard for any skyhook system. Overall, though, I think the pluses outweigh the minuses. (Caveat - the only experience I have with a system like this one is the Sorcerer, and that's a very different reserve-static-line system.)

Each Skyhook setup has a Collins Lanyard according to Marcus at Relative Workshop. He was great to talk to and helped me pick the correct size for my canopy choices. I have the video also demonstrating the skyhook. The cutaway from a spinning canopy is just awesome. And no line twists on the reserve!

They (RW) said that in each of their spinning cutaway tests they didn't have line twists on the reserve. This was an unexpected side effect. They have a theory that the pilot chute acts as a rudder during the cutaway and keeps the bag from spining during the reserve deployment. I'm sure the physicists and engineers could analyze this one to death (no pun inteded). I think that's just a pleasant surprise.

Chris Schindler

[USPA 0]

What do you mean?

On Vector the RSL is standard right. I don't see a problem with a collins attached on a RSL on the left or the right side.

The trouble with skydiving; If you stink at it and continue to jump, you'll die. If you're good at it and continue to jump, you'll see a lot of friends die...

[billbooth 10]

I put my RSL on the right side, because every broken riser I've ever seen was the left one. And before the Collin's lanyard, if one riser broke, you certainly didn't want it to be the RSL side, did you?

The left riser breaks because almost everyone looks over their right shoulder as they throw the pilot chute, to watch the deployment. This puts the left shoulder low, and effectively shortens the left line groups by a foot, causing the majority of the initial opening shock to be taken by the left riser. You can easily see this effect if you look at graphs of load comparisons on left and right risers during opening shock. The left riser often receives twice the load of the right.

Moral to the story: Don't look over either shoulder during opening. If you've gotta look...look straight up.

[USPA 0]

cool... another one of those small things that are just bit better/ thought out on the vector...

Well Bill, you just made me again more conviced I should have gotten a vector micron last year... (which was excatly predicted by RW's contactperson )

Ok... enough sucking up for now....

The trouble with skydiving; If you stink at it and continue to jump, you'll die. If you're good at it and continue to jump, you'll see a lot of friends die...

[RichM 0]

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I put my RSL on the right side, because every broken riser I've ever seen was the left one. And before the Collin's lanyard, if one riser broke, you certainly didn't want it to be the RSL side, did you?

The left riser breaks because almost everyone looks over their right shoulder as they throw the pilot chute, to watch the deployment. This puts the left shoulder low, and effectively shortens the left line groups by a foot, causing the majority of the initial opening shock to be taken by the left riser. You can easily see this effect if you look at graphs of load comparisons on left and right risers during opening shock. The left riser often receives twice the load of the right.

A low shoulder is enough to cause a spinning mal on some hard core canopies. As many people more experienced than me have said here, look at the horizon, keep your body level, and the canopy will open just fine.

Rich M

[JohnPolk 0]

i must not fully understand the concept of the skyhook. does it pop your reserve pin, then pull out the freebag as well? i was always told that the down side to an rsl was a spinning mal on your back or some other bad situation such as that. how is the skyhook safer in these types of situations than a regular rsl?

JOHN

[billbooth 10]

John;

Go to www.relativeworkshop.com for an explaination of the Skyhook.

[USPA 0]

Hi Bill,

I was wondering: I currently jump without a RSL attached, because I do alot of camerajumps. I'm continues doubting if I wan't to attach the RSL for my non-camerajumps. The reason I chose not to do that is because I'm afraid to unhook it when I do camerajumps.

Although I'm not in the market for at least 2 years for a new rig, how would you advice for a situation where you have the skyhook option installed, but not hooked up? (except that it can be spending money better used on jumps... )

The trouble with skydiving; If you stink at it and continue to jump, you'll die. If you're good at it and continue to jump, you'll see a lot of friends die...

[rigging65 0]

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I don't see a problem with a collins attached on a RSL on the left or the right side.

Then you need to think about it a bit more.

You want to have your standard Collins Lanyard on the same side as your RSL, right? But the end of your Collins Lanyard has to end up on your right side, as that's where the cutaway handle is. So, with a left sided RSL you have to find a way to route the Lanyard all the way across the yoke and down to the cutaway handle...or do what was done on the Sigma Tandem and combine the Collins Lanyard and the RSL into one package...which still means it needs to live on the right side, in order to effect the opposite side cutaway cable. Think about it, it makes sense.

We've looked at alot of different ways to have a left sided RSL and a Collins Lanyard-like system, and we've yet to come up with a solution.

Why do we like the left side RSL? Because it keeps the lanyard more manageable, and with the way our rig is designed, the RSL can't route around from the other side.

"...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward.
For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

[diverdriver 5]

www.relativeworkshop.com

clicky link

[USPA 0]

I was thinking of the Sigma tandem setup, and it pretty obvious... feel like an idiot now... how could I mis it!

Oh, btw, could you explain a little further why it's on the left side at "your" rig?

The trouble with skydiving; If you stink at it and continue to jump, you'll die. If you're good at it and continue to jump, you'll see a lot of friends die...

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

I am sending back every one of my Sigmas for skyhook retrofit. I sat throught Bill's talk and it makes perfect sense; I see no downside to the mod.

Chuck
Manager, RPC School

[Rdutch 0]

Ive seen a bunch of test's from the deck at my dz. It is nothing but spectacular. They even hooked up a canopy backwards to simulate a line twist that was spinning you on your back, and it opened up perfect, (Well what I saw on the ground) but there was video shot. Should be exciting to see.

Ray
Small and fast what every girl dreams of!

[slotperfect 7]

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I am sending back every one of my Sigmas for skyhook retrofit.

And I will be jumping those Sigmas Chuck sends back for retrofit with complete confidence. In December Bill showed me the videos from the test jumps, spinning canopy cutaways and all. I am sold.

Arrive Safely

John

[murrays 0]

I think it is a terrific idea that will save lives.
The only two situations I can think of where a person may not want to have a Skyhook/RSL are: 1 - CRW and 2 - Camera - I think that camera-flyers need to be sure they are not entangled before cutting away.
Other than that, I think it is something everybody else can use.
Can the Skyhook be disconnected by disconnecting the RSL? In other words, could I connect it when doing non-camera jumps and disconnect it when jumping camera?

--
Murray

"No tyranny is so irksome as petty tyranny: the officious demands of policemen, government clerks, and electromechanical gadgets." - Edward Abbey

[Jib 0]

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Can the Skyhook be disconnected by disconnecting the RSL? In other words, could I connect it when doing non-camera jumps and disconnect it when jumping camera?

Take a look at:
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=377945;search_string=tandem%20skyhook;#377945

"When you disconnect the RSL, you disconnect the Skyhook, so if you breakaway on the ground (or in the air) with the RSL disconnected, the Skyhook does nothing but sit there awaiting further instructions."

--------------------------------------------------
the depth of his depravity sickens me.
-- Jerry Falwell, People v. Larry Flynt

[RichM 0]

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The only two situations I can think of where a person may not want to have a Skyhook/RSL are: 1 - CRW and 2 - Camera - I think that camera-flyers need to be sure they are not entangled before cutting away.

If the camera jumper isn't entangled then the skyhook will operate normally and be of benefit? If he is entangled then he's in bad karma already, but I don't think the skyhook makes it any worse. Am I missing something here on (2)?

Rich M

[murrays 0]

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"When you disconnect the RSL, you disconnect the Skyhook, so if you breakaway on the ground (or in the air) with the RSL disconnected, the Skyhook does nothing but sit there awaiting further instructions."

Thanks...I missed that in the original thread. Unless you do nothing but crw or shoot camera on every jump I see no downside to having a Skyhook installed. Being able to disconnect it if you want to makes it impossible to advise against it...IMO

--
Murray

"No tyranny is so irksome as petty tyranny: the officious demands of policemen, government clerks, and electromechanical gadgets." - Edward Abbey

[murrays 0]

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The only two situations I can think of where a person may not want to have a Skyhook/RSL are: 1 - CRW and 2 - Camera - I think that camera-flyers need to be sure they are not entangled before cutting away.

If the camera jumper isn't entangled then the skyhook will operate normally and be of benefit? If he is entangled then he's in bad karma already, but I don't think the skyhook makes it any worse. Am I missing something here on (2)?

I think if you are entangled and the Skyhook is connected...when you cutaway, your main is going to stay connected to your helmet...your reserve will possibly/probably be activated by the cutaway...the SKyhook will be connected to the reserve bridle...the reserve bridle and freebag can start deploying....and I think it has the possibility for a very bad situation to develop.
I would prefer being able to cutaway, realize I was hung up, jettison my helmet, fall away and activate my reserve into clean air.
In the original thread an experienced cameraflyer (Hookitt) said he had experienced the situation where his main was spun up so badly that he couldn't look up or determine whether he was entangled before cutting away. (His post is the last one in the thread. A few posts above Diablopilot outlines a good summary of camera jumping emergency procedures) It is because of reading of experiences like that that I want to be able to chop, fall and ensure no entanglement exists before pulling silver.
I think that it will be interesting to see if experienced cameraflyers order the Skyhook on their new Microns. This will be a good indication of how much of a risk this is perceived to be.
I think a proxy risk evaluation would be to see how many cameraflyers have RSLs installed and hooked up when jumping camera.

--
Murray

"No tyranny is so irksome as petty tyranny: the officious demands of policemen, government clerks, and electromechanical gadgets." - Edward Abbey