How much should a newbie expect to pay for his first rig?

[ShcShc11 0]

I've been reading different topics about purchasing the first rig, but it gets all so confusing.
I was thinking of buying a used container then I read this article from Chutingstar:
http://www.chutingstar.com/expertadvice_en/buying-gear/41-best-fitvalue-for-1st-rig.html


I know the question is a little redundant, but how much should one expect to spend on a rig without compromising safety? ... as in what approx price range I should aim for that doesn't break the bank?

Currently I'm 22 going to grad school; more of a weekend jumper...

Are there places other than my DZ and Classifieds to look for rigs? Do container manufacturers have specials? (I think Wings have 40% off for November?) Should I buy really old reserves (seems like there's a few at less than 500 bucks)...

Thanks for the help.

[spootch 0]

anywhere from 1500 - 8000 bucks

[JohnRich 4]

Whatever you can afford, that your rigger approves of.

[skyjumpenfool 2]

There's an old saying....
"Skydiving will cost you everything you have and half your pay check for the rest of your life!"

Personally, I've found this not to be true. It takes way more than half.

As for your first rig, check around your local DZ's. There's always "That Guy" who knows where all the used rigs are and has a handle on what's available. As stated above, when you find gear that you like, ALWAYS have it checked out by a trusted rigger. If you haven't yet built a relationship with a good rigger, it's time to start. Good luck and we'll see you at 13K.

Birdshit & Fools Productions

"Son, only two things fall from the sky."

[gowlerk 1,916]

People starting out typically end up paying between $2500 and $3000 here in Manitoba. The lower end of that usually involves an AAD that is almost ready to retire. In other words a 10 or 11 YO Cypres.
Don't buy anything unless you have a good relationship with someone you trust who can advise you. Preferably a local instructor and or rigger who has nothing to gain from the sale. It's not so much that you will be cheated, although that is possible. It's more that you don't know yet what you need without some help.
I have found that if you have the cash in hand you can often get a decent price. There are a lot of people looking for gear that really can't afford to buy it. So sellers will often ask too much, but end up taking what they can in the end.
Old reserves are ok up to a point. It is complicated and that's why you need an adviser. Usually the best person to ask for help is whoever you think will be the rigger packing and maintaining it for you. If they feel you will become an on going customer they will likely be willing to spend at least some time helping you out.
And remember, advice given in online forums like this is free. And it can sometimes be worth every penny you pay.

Good luck
Ken

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[davelepka 4]

Quote

I know the question is a little redundant, but how much should one expect to spend on a rig without compromising safety?

Rigs need to be inspected and packed by a rigger every 6 months, and at that time the rigger determines of the rig is 'airworthy' or not. The vast majority of rigs out there, provided they pass a riggers inspection, are 'safe' and the cost has nothing to do with it.

There are a handful of rigs and canopies that are known to be 'less than'. Most gear that turns out to have design flaws will be redesigned, and the existing ones will be modified to take care of the shortcoming. Very few make it to the market, and then stay there with flaws intact, but they do exist.

That's the reason that you need to team up with a local rigger if you intend to buy a used rig. Search locally and here in the classifieds for gear, and then consult your rigger before even making an offer on the gear. Make sure that the 'idea' of the gear passes their inspection, and then start the process of getting your hands on it. Don't buy anything without either -

A) Having your rigger inspect it first. This is easy for local gear, and harder for buying online. Some sellers are willing to ship to a 'known' rigger for inspection without being paid for the gear. Payment is then made after it passes inspection, or the gear is retruned. Make sure you discuss shipping costs (and who pays them) before staring that process.

B) If a seller won't ship without payment, make sure you can return the gear in a reasonable time frame provided it doesn't pass inspection. Arrange to have the gear in your hands for one week, and still be able to send it back. This does not include jumping the gear, you jump it, you buy it.

B2) Also, if you're having trouble arranging payment for used gear, you can call chutingstar.com, and they can escrow the deal for you. They're a reputable gear store, and the seller will ship them the gear and you send them the money, and they will inspect the gear and provided it passes, ship it on to you and forward the money to the seller. Last time I checked, they only charge a fee for the inspection.

The last consieration for 'safety' with used gear is if the rig is new enough to be 'freefly friendly'. If you intend to freefly, you need a rig with flaps that will stay closed at high speed with you upside down. Not all rigs were built that way at one time, and if you buy one of those rigs, you should not freefly with it. Anything built in the last 10 years should be OK, but be sure to mention that to your rigger when looking at gear.

A note on that - even if you intend to just freefly 'a little', you still need a freefly friendly rig. Even one jump is eough to have risers and bridle coming out of your rig and wrapping up with whatever they want, and that sucks. if plan to NEVER freefly, then don't worry about it, but if you think you might, get the right rig.

Finally, main canopies went through a big change 20 years ago, and they started using Z-po fabric, which made them 20x better than they used to be. The old fabric would wear out within 500 jumps or so, and then the canopy would flare like a sack of bricks. Canopies with the old fabric were still in production for a while (some still are) but you don't want any part of that. Even one in great shape isn't for you, just insist on something made from Z-po. You can find Z-po canopies with 1000 jumps that still fly fine, and should be $500 or less.

Overall, you can lock onto a used rig for $2000-ish without an AAD. A new AAD will run you about $1200-$1400 (buy a Cypres2, nothing else), and finding a used one is hard but you might get lucky). For that money you can expect a fairly modern rig that will perform well and have some resale value when you're done. Keep a constat eye on the classifieds here, and ask everyone at your DZ if they have anything for sale.

[ShcShc11 0]

Quote

Quote

I know the question is a little redundant, but how much should one expect to spend on a rig without compromising safety?

Rigs need to be inspected and packed by a rigger every 6 months, and at that time the rigger determines of the rig is 'airworthy' or not. The vast majority of rigs out there, provided they pass a riggers inspection, are 'safe' and the cost has nothing to do with it.

There are a handful of rigs and canopies that are known to be 'less than'. Most gear that turns out to have design flaws will be redesigned, and the existing ones will be modified to take care of the shortcoming. Very few make it to the market, and then stay there with flaws intact, but they do exist.

That's the reason that you need to team up with a local rigger if you intend to buy a used rig. Search locally and here in the classifieds for gear, and then consult your rigger before even making an offer on the gear. Make sure that the 'idea' of the gear passes their inspection, and then start the process of getting your hands on it. Don't buy anything without either -

A) Having your rigger inspect it first. This is easy for local gear, and harder for buying online. Some sellers are willing to ship to a 'known' rigger for inspection without being paid for the gear. Payment is then made after it passes inspection, or the gear is retruned. Make sure you discuss shipping costs (and who pays them) before staring that process.

B) If a seller won't ship without payment, make sure you can return the gear in a reasonable time frame provided it doesn't pass inspection. Arrange to have the gear in your hands for one week, and still be able to send it back. This does not include jumping the gear, you jump it, you buy it.

B2) Also, if you're having trouble arranging payment for used gear, you can call chutingstar.com, and they can escrow the deal for you. They're a reputable gear store, and the seller will ship them the gear and you send them the money, and they will inspect the gear and provided it passes, ship it on to you and forward the money to the seller. Last time I checked, they only charge a fee for the inspection.

The last consieration for 'safety' with used gear is if the rig is new enough to be 'freefly friendly'. If you intend to freefly, you need a rig with flaps that will stay closed at high speed with you upside down. Not all rigs were built that way at one time, and if you buy one of those rigs, you should not freefly with it. Anything built in the last 10 years should be OK, but be sure to mention that to your rigger when looking at gear.

A note on that - even if you intend to just freefly 'a little', you still need a freefly friendly rig. Even one jump is eough to have risers and bridle coming out of your rig and wrapping up with whatever they want, and that sucks. if plan to NEVER freefly, then don't worry about it, but if you think you might, get the right rig.

Finally, main canopies went through a big change 20 years ago, and they started using Z-po fabric, which made them 20x better than they used to be. The old fabric would wear out within 500 jumps or so, and then the canopy would flare like a sack of bricks. Canopies with the old fabric were still in production for a while (some still are) but you don't want any part of that. Even one in great shape isn't for you, just insist on something made from Z-po. You can find Z-po canopies with 1000 jumps that still fly fine, and should be $500 or less.

Overall, you can lock onto a used rig for $2000-ish without an AAD. A new AAD will run you about $1200-$1400 (buy a Cypres2, nothing else), and finding a used one is hard but you might get lucky). For that money you can expect a fairly modern rig that will perform well and have some resale value when you're done. Keep a constat eye on the classifieds here, and ask everyone at your DZ if they have anything for sale.

Thanks for the very long reply. Very informative!

[AdamWirtz2001 0]

I'm a new jumper too and just bought my gear. This is what I worked out.

I was able to purchase a used student rig that my DZ just retired. The rig is a 10ish year old Javelin with a 170 Saber II and a 160 PD reserve. About 800 jumps on the rig. Paid $2400 for it and then bought a new Cypress 2 for it.

I also then ordered a new Inifinity container(~$2500 I think). (I wanted to have a container fit just for me). I'll be porting everything into the new container when it comes.

Hope that helps.

[davelepka 4]

Check out the post above this one, reading in between the lines, the guy is saying he's going to have a third-hand Javelin for sale once his Infinity comes in.

I don't know what sized canopies you need, or what size harness you need (or what size the Jav has), but shoot him PM and see what the deal is. Might be a lead on a container, who knows?

[thrillstalker 0]

3 to 4 grand if you buy used.

"Never grow a wishbone, where your backbone ought to be."

[ghostlybadge 0]

my first rig cost me £1000 and that was 8 months ago.
Its a javalin with a pd 176 reserve and a sabre 190 with an aad with 4 years left.

Yes its 21 years old but there is nothing wrong with it. riggers have inspercted it and deemed it safe.

My second rig cost me £600 and that was a superfly tear drop with tempo 170 and sabre 170 and a aad with 1 year left.

So now am in the process of selling my jav

[Chris-Ottawa 0]

Hey SaeHo,

I'm in Ottawa and as an example, I setup complete rig this spring for $1800...INCLUDING an AAD. Everything is fairly new and recent gear (no 1985 reserve etc, everything is 2001+).

The point is, if you're patient, there are great deals to be found. This also happens to be a great time of year to find gear.

If you want to run anything by me, feel free as I am more than willing to help you out and I am also a rigger. Send me a PM if you're interested.

Later!

"When once you have tasted flight..."

[ShcShc11 0]

So what do we need to take into consideration when buying a used rig?
Height/Weight obviously.

Anything else? Chest measurement?

[wolfriverjoe 1,346]

Quote

So what do we need to take into consideration when buying a used rig?
Height/Weight obviously.

Anything else? Chest measurement?

Size of canopies that it holds (both reserve and main). If it doesn't hold the right size canopies, nothing else matters.

Condition/Age/Freefly friendlieness.

Will your rigger work on it? Some riggers can't/won't pack Racers for example. Other riggers have preferrences. Try to pick a rig your rigger is familiar with (in a good way). Or find a different rigger.

Harness size. All the manufacturers have a "How to measure" page. It's more than height, weight and chest. None of it is very complex, but you want someone who knows how to take measurements to do it. Some riggers know how, some don't. Most tailors/seamstresses do.
Harness size is last for a reason. It doesn't have to be perfect, but it needs to be close. Have your measurements taken and keep them handy. You can send them and the serial number of a prospective rig to the manufacturer and see how close of a fit it will be, if a harness resize is practical and how much it would cost.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[ShcShc11 0]

OK one last question:

I'm thinking of going with Wings containers, but they have a ton of options

-Articulation (Hip Rings)
-Spacerfoam Backpad/Legpads
-Stainless Steel Hardware
-Kill-line Main Pilot Chute
-Hook Knife w/Pocket
-Soft Reserve Handle
-Cut-in Laterals

Are any of these necessary from a safety point of view? All these options really makes one person go nuts.

[Hellis 0]

If safety is the only concern, then hook knife is the only option you should add.

Kill-line pilotchute is something you really should concider. The gear will probably be slightly harder to sell without.

Spacerfoam is a nice option, and articulation too. But it's "only" comfort.
If I should choose one of them, I would go for spacerfoam.