BlueSkiesJT 0 #1 November 17, 2011 Hi, I'm just about to complete my A license. I have 30 jumps and I found a rig that I may be interested in owning for the next 50 jumps or so. The rig I'm looking at is a 1990 Racer Elite with a 235 Falcon and a Raven II reserve. My buddy checked it out and suggested that it receive a new line-set and PC, but stated he say no reason a rigger would not find it air-worthy. I'm about 190 out the door and have no experience with F-111 canopies. Is this a safe rig for a new jumper (assuming I have a cypress installed)? Also, is $600 too much to pay? Thank you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drdive 0 #2 November 17, 2011 I think you would rapidly get dissatisfied with that rig and want something better and smaller in just a few jumps. I wouldn't waste my money on it. I would suggest budgeting a little more and looking for a ZP canopy in the 190-210 range. That should suit you for several hundred or more jumps."We saved your gear. Now you can sell it when you get out of the hospital and upsize!!" "K-Dub" " Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thrillstalker 0 #3 November 17, 2011 you realize that the rig you are talking about getting is 21 years old. i would get something a little more in tune with the technology of today."Never grow a wishbone, where your backbone ought to be." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #4 November 17, 2011 You really need to take it to a rigger and have it checked out. Your questions can't be fully answered with out inspecting the gear. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlueSkiesJT 0 #5 November 17, 2011 I understand the rig is old and my buddy who checked it out worked in a loft for several months and said it looked ok with the exception of the fore-mentioned issues, but he would not certify that it was air-worthy since he does not have a ticket. The price is so low that I figured it might be ok to jump while I save money for another rig as it's 30/jump to rent gear. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pchapman 261 #6 November 17, 2011 You'll catch some flak for thinking about something so old. But it is OK as long as you are aware of the limitations -- and there are some. You aren't planning to spend much on it - good. While not much is invested, selling it may be harder than for a more pricy, modern rig. And on dz we'll be dealing with another newbie asking the same questions. :) If the canopy actually needs a reline, it isn't worth it, since the canopy is worth almost nothing and is harder to sell. Often with old F-111, if a reline is needed, the canopy is pretty shot. At least it is a reasonable size relative to your weight. Jumping old F-111 will get you in the air, but it isn't going to train you for modern canopies. That may or may not matter, depending whether you are set on being the next swoop god at 500 jumps. You'd want to confirm that the rig has an AAD pouch installed, otherwise that will cost money. You'll need a two pin AAD if you want one, which costs more. The rig won't likely be as freefly friendly, but that may only be a smaller issue in the next 100 jumps. Still, certain levels of safety are expected when jumping with others or just playing around with sitflying. Mainly see if a new BOC is needed, and whether some sort of tuck tabs have been added to protect the main pin. If much modification is needed, the value of the rig comes down more. (I'm assuming the rig has a BOC. It could be a pullout, in which case you'd want retraining for that method.) So again, there's nothing "wrong" with the rig, and I've known others whose first rig had old F-111 in it. Just that there are a lot of little caveats about cost and getting it into service immediately. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 3 #7 November 17, 2011 Quotebut stated he say no reason a rigger would not find it air-worthy. Take that for what it's worth. If you do decide to buy it (and I'm not saying to or not to) get a pre-buy with a reputable rigger/loft."I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 93 #8 November 18, 2011 If the cost of it is very low, about $300, then it might be worth buying. That $300 figure may be a bit high though, I might be overestimating its value. Is it all more than 20 years old? Some riggers won't repack a reserve more than 20 years old, even if the mfg does not have a life limit. If the main needs new lines, then the fabric is likely so porous that nice landings will be difficult to achieve. If the container is in nearly new shape, then it might be worth buying. If not, then it might only be worth having it given to you. That's the reality, old rigs need to be in unused condition to be worth anything. Others have pointed out the possible need to spend money on mods to allow an AAD and other such things, so that is part of why it is worth so little. It doesn't matter how much the seller wants for it, you must realize what it is really worth.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
likestojump 3 #9 November 18, 2011 If the main needs a reline you may as well use it as a car cover - the cost of reline is far greater than the value of the canopy, not to mention that being and old F111 wing it is really no good by the time the lines wear out. The container should be ok for belly flying, as long as all the velcro is nice and strong. The reserve is fine and I still have many friends using the SuperRaven series in their rigs. I personally like 'em, and know quite a few people who love 'em. The price - well, it's a bit much for such antiquated gear with no good main and I am guessing needing new velcro (riser covers, most likely main toggles, and possibly the reserve pin cover flap). But I do think it has value, just a bit less than $600 Also make sure it has a BOC, and that the spandex is not worn. Basically if you are extremely short on funds and are 100% ready to commit to staying on your belly while owning this, than there's no reason not to get it, as long as it's CHEAP. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #10 November 18, 2011 QuoteMy buddy checked it out and suggested that it receive a new line-set and PC Those two things will add $300 to the price of the rig. $200 for the reline (I'm being conservative) and $100 for a new PC. How about the risers? Are the toggles held on with velcro? If so, you'll want to upgrade to velcroless risers as the Racer doesn't have great riser covers, and when velcro risers get out in freefall, the toggles come flying off. Add $100 for new risers. Is the PC pouch on the bottom of the contianer, or is it on the legstrap? If it is on the bottom, what's the condition like? Figure on a new one, $40. Once you get the rig, all the new parts will need to be installed, and you'll need a reserev repack, so there's another $100. Your $600 rig just about doubled in price. What you're left with is a rig you don't want to freefly with, and that some riggers won't even pack. The resale value will be about $500, now that you made it ready to jump. If you're tight on cash, look into getting creative. Ask around the DZ to see if anyone has any 15 year old gear in their closet, and try to peice a rig together that way. An old main from this guy, a reserve from that guy and so on. Even if you can only find one part locally, see if the guy will give you time to pay or take payments. If you can get an old main for $300 or $400, and you can pay the guy in the spring, you're 1/3 of the way to a rig, and you still have your $600 in the bank. Look into packing at the DZ if you can. You can make an easy $100 a weekend, and in a couple months you'll have enough for a rig. You'll be on the DZ, able to jump once or twice a day, and if you want to make friends and find out who has gear around, become a packer and opportunities will come your way. Pass on the Racer, and this is from a guy who put 3000 jumps on Racers. They were newer and modified from the one you're looking at, and I never would have jumped a stock Racer from 1990. Besides, that rig is worth about $200, and that's if the reserve is still airworhty. The main and the container are just too old and outdated to really have any value. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 93 #11 November 18, 2011 QuoteIf you're tight on cash, look into getting creative. Ask around the DZ to see if anyone has any 15 year old gear in their closet, and try to peice a rig together that way. An old main from this guy, a reserve from that guy and so on. Quite right. Some people keep gear in their closet even though they really don't expect to use it again. They don't plan on selling it, but might part with it for a person they want to help along in the sport. You never know, they might even just let you use it a while for nearly nothing compared to normal rentals at your DZ. I remember what it was like to need a really cheap rig when I started. An experienced friend let me buy his rig for $20 a week. Anyway, armed with the information you've gotten from this thread, perhaps it is still worth buying the rig in question, but now you can get it at the price it is really worth. If you politely let them know what you're willing to pay and why, they might reject your offer at first, but then later realize you're right and agree.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,121 #12 November 18, 2011 Remember that at gear rental costs this rig pays for itself after 20 jumps: ONLY IF YOU CAN JUMP IT. The main doesn't sound like it's good, so that cuts the price significantly. Why does he say it needs a reline? How many jumps does it have? Make sure that local riggers (more than one) will service the gear -- it would really suck to buy it, only to find that local riggers won't pack it. Set aside the gear rental money for each jump into your rig savings account, but also keep jumping the rig as long as it suits your needs. Keep the velcro up etc. Remember that in this portion of your skydiving career your gear is just to get you to the ground safely, and learn those skills well; pattern and landings. Personally, I'd willingly jump older gear if it got me in the air, and have done so for extended periods. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
racerman 0 #13 November 18, 2011 Send the rig to Jump Shack dba Parachute Labs. They're the one that build Racers and have them look it over. There's nothing like the manufacture looking over the rig and can tell exactually if it's airworthy or not. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peregrinerose 0 #14 November 20, 2011 There's nothing wrong with a Racer. My first rig was a 1992 Racer, it served me well for proabably 500 jumps. The Falcon, if it needs a new line set, isn't worth much, so plan on just buying a ZP or hybrid main... better to do that than sink $250 or so into a line set. Nothing wrong with a Raven II reserve... assuming it passes a RIGGER's inspection (not some buddy... rigging loft experience or nto... take it to a rigger). Does it have an AAD? Personally, I'd pay probably $300-400 on it, donate the main for some good cause or hang on to it to practice patches or something on if you're interested in getting a riggers' ticket. Buy an AAD and a different main (again, assuming everything passes a rigger's inspection), jump the shit out of it for a few hundred jumps, and by then you'll know what you want out of a container and can upgrade to something else. FYI, I sold my 1992 Racer with a 170 Spectre (300 jumps), Cypres (2 years left on it), and PDR 160 for $1600. a couple of years ago. Most of the value was in the main and reserve. My husband's racer, same specs as mine but with a Sabre 1 with about 600 jumps went for $1200. Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #15 November 20, 2011 I think you would rapidly get dissatisfied with that rig and want something better and smaller in just a few jumps. I wouldn't waste my money on it. Quote ...every wonder where the downsizing peer pressure comes from? Haven't even met the guy and you're telling him what he 'wants'...and it's of course smaller than what he's considering. The jumper is new & on a budget, If he can get in the air with larger canopy until he gets some experience and some money...SCORE It is how a lot of us stayed with the sport when times were thin. I'm thinking he may not be able to stay as current as many jumpers because of school, family, illness or whatever ~I say if the price is right, it's checked out by a rigger and passes ...you're Skydiving Baby! Let the custom colors and the state of the art canopies wait until the NEXT rig. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjumpenfool 2 #16 November 20, 2011 QuoteI think you would rapidly get dissatisfied with that rig and want something better and smaller in just a few jumps. I wouldn't waste my money on it. Quote ...every wonder where the downsizing peer pressure comes from? Haven't even met the guy and you're telling him what he 'wants'...and it's of course smaller than what he's considering. ......Not to mention, The OP doesn't even state his weight, physical condition, etc. But, you're still advising a smaller canopy??? WWWTP (what's wrong with this picture) To the OP... I use a very good rigger. He will not pack my old Javlin because it's old enough to drink. It's a great rig and I use it as my second rig, but I have to find someone else to pack it. ....Check with a rigger.Birdshit & Fools Productions "Son, only two things fall from the sky." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites drdive 0 #17 November 20, 2011 My bad for not asking about exit weight etc. I do not push downsizing in general. I am still on the 188 I bought with 40 jumps. If this is all he can afford, oh well, I just don't feel he will be satisfied with 20+ year old gear and a F-111 especially if he has to pay for relining and mods. But it is only an opinion - which is what he asked for. "We saved your gear. Now you can sell it when you get out of the hospital and upsize!!" "K-Dub" " Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites likestojump 3 #18 November 20, 2011 Quote To the OP... I use a very good rigger. He will not pack my old Javlin because it's old enough to drink. It's a great rig and I use it as my second rig, but I have to find someone else to pack it. ....Check with a rigger. What is so "very good" about your rigger ? If you respect them so much, why do you not take their unwillingness to pack your rig as a sign that it needs to be retired ? On a 2nd note - Are they refusing to pack your rig simply because of it's age ? If so, you should remind the rigger that although they themselves are probably way over the drinking age, they are still functional. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjumpenfool 2 #19 November 20, 2011 Quote What is so "very good" about your rigger ? If you respect them so much, why do you not take their unwillingness to pack your rig as a sign that it needs to be retired ? I do respect this rigger. I also respect his personal policy. It's his policy to not pack rigs of this age, regardless of its condition. He was very honest and told me the rig is in very good condition for its age and that it's very airworthy. He also informed me that he would no longer be willing to make repairs on it (should it need repairs in the future). I respect his right to make that decision as well. He did not say this rig was ready to be retired. Had he told me that, I’d have retired it, because I respect his opinion. When this rig is ready to be retired, I will retire it. I also know this rigger will insist on its retirement if he thinks it’s due. My point to the OP was to check in with his rigger. Sometimes even airworthy gear has a downside. OP.... Consider resale value into the equation. If you can find a newer rig for sale and buy it cheap enough, you can jump it for a couple years then sell it for most of what you paid. The "cost per jump" might be less even though you paid more up front.Birdshit & Fools Productions "Son, only two things fall from the sky." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dpreguy 14 #20 November 21, 2011 Blue skies JT Opinion: You have 30 jumps. You trained with assemblies with RSL's. the Racer you are looking at: Does it have an RSL? Bet not. Ask your AFF jumpmaster if you would have been allowed to jump with your RSL disconnected. Nope. Bet neither your AFF jumpmaster or your coaches on jumps 10 through 30 would have allowed you to jump with your RSL disconnected. Why should you do without one now? Question answered. My opinion: This old dog rig, harness and container included, is not a rig for a 30 jump "still learning" jumper, as I assume it is not RSL equipped. (Actually I guess we are all still learning.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airtwardo 6 #21 November 21, 2011 Quote Blue skies JT Opinion: You have 30 jumps. You trained with assemblies with RSL's. the Racer you are looking at: Does it have an RSL? Bet not. Ask your AFF jumpmaster if you would have been allowed to jump with your RSL disconnected. Nope. Bet neither your AFF jumpmaster or your coaches on jumps 10 through 30 would have allowed you to jump with your RSL disconnected. Why should you do without one now? Question answered. My opinion: This old dog rig, harness and container included, is not a rig for a 30 jump "still learning" jumper, as I assume it is not RSL equipped. (Actually I guess we are all still learning.) ~Come on dpre, just add a Steven's Line & a ripcord stop and that rig is good to go!Anybody know a GOOD rigger?? ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites theonlyski 3 #22 November 21, 2011 Quote Anybody know a GOOD rigger?? Getting pretty fuckin picky nowdays aren't ya?!?"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nigel99 144 #23 November 21, 2011 For what it is worth IF the harness is the right size, it might be worth it. I don't think the condition of the main really matters. Something that nobody else has mentioned, is demo canopies. At this stage it is a good thing to be trying out different mains so you don't really need one, if you demo lots of different mains. It gets you off the rental gear ladder as well. Once you find a main that suits you, you could buy one used.Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites davelepka 4 #24 November 21, 2011 Let me chime in one more time, now that the thread has progressed some. For the record, I have 1000's of jumps on Racers, most on one Racer. On that rig, and the others, I had all manner of flaps, risers and toggles out in freefall. On the one I jumped the most, it was modified to tackle these problems, and was also a tiny, tiny rig. In terms of a Racer, the smaller the rig, the better it will hold together. Racers lack stiffeners in the flaps, and a big flap with no stiffener has more space to move around and make trouble. Back to the idea of the rig in question - will it work? Provided it passes an airworthyness inspection, yes, adn I would use to make a parachtue descent. That's different than 'skydiving' however. To get me to the ground, I would trust it, to use a piece of sporting equipment for modern day jumping, I would not. Think about cars. A 1978 AMC Pacer, provided it's mechanically sound, is capable of getting you from point A to point B. It will not stop, turn or go as well as a more modern car, it's not as reliabe, won't get the milage, but in the end, it is a street legal car and could be used for transportation. A rig, on the other hand, is not something you buy to meet the minimum requirements of the basic task. If you need a car to get to work, maybe a Pacer would work, it you're looking for a car to do some drifting or autocross, the Pacer is not going to make you happy. Sport skydiving is like drifting or autocross, it's something you do for fun, and you want a piece of equipment that lends itself to that fun. An old Racer and F-111 main is not that piece of equipment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sundevil777 93 #25 November 21, 2011 The Pacer rocked! No blind spots. Fantastic visibility - to clear your airspace! People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
skyjumpenfool 2 #16 November 20, 2011 QuoteI think you would rapidly get dissatisfied with that rig and want something better and smaller in just a few jumps. I wouldn't waste my money on it. Quote ...every wonder where the downsizing peer pressure comes from? Haven't even met the guy and you're telling him what he 'wants'...and it's of course smaller than what he's considering. ......Not to mention, The OP doesn't even state his weight, physical condition, etc. But, you're still advising a smaller canopy??? WWWTP (what's wrong with this picture) To the OP... I use a very good rigger. He will not pack my old Javlin because it's old enough to drink. It's a great rig and I use it as my second rig, but I have to find someone else to pack it. ....Check with a rigger.Birdshit & Fools Productions "Son, only two things fall from the sky." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites drdive 0 #17 November 20, 2011 My bad for not asking about exit weight etc. I do not push downsizing in general. I am still on the 188 I bought with 40 jumps. If this is all he can afford, oh well, I just don't feel he will be satisfied with 20+ year old gear and a F-111 especially if he has to pay for relining and mods. But it is only an opinion - which is what he asked for. "We saved your gear. Now you can sell it when you get out of the hospital and upsize!!" "K-Dub" " Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites likestojump 3 #18 November 20, 2011 Quote To the OP... I use a very good rigger. He will not pack my old Javlin because it's old enough to drink. It's a great rig and I use it as my second rig, but I have to find someone else to pack it. ....Check with a rigger. What is so "very good" about your rigger ? If you respect them so much, why do you not take their unwillingness to pack your rig as a sign that it needs to be retired ? On a 2nd note - Are they refusing to pack your rig simply because of it's age ? If so, you should remind the rigger that although they themselves are probably way over the drinking age, they are still functional. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjumpenfool 2 #19 November 20, 2011 Quote What is so "very good" about your rigger ? If you respect them so much, why do you not take their unwillingness to pack your rig as a sign that it needs to be retired ? I do respect this rigger. I also respect his personal policy. It's his policy to not pack rigs of this age, regardless of its condition. He was very honest and told me the rig is in very good condition for its age and that it's very airworthy. He also informed me that he would no longer be willing to make repairs on it (should it need repairs in the future). I respect his right to make that decision as well. He did not say this rig was ready to be retired. Had he told me that, I’d have retired it, because I respect his opinion. When this rig is ready to be retired, I will retire it. I also know this rigger will insist on its retirement if he thinks it’s due. My point to the OP was to check in with his rigger. Sometimes even airworthy gear has a downside. OP.... Consider resale value into the equation. If you can find a newer rig for sale and buy it cheap enough, you can jump it for a couple years then sell it for most of what you paid. The "cost per jump" might be less even though you paid more up front.Birdshit & Fools Productions "Son, only two things fall from the sky." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dpreguy 14 #20 November 21, 2011 Blue skies JT Opinion: You have 30 jumps. You trained with assemblies with RSL's. the Racer you are looking at: Does it have an RSL? Bet not. Ask your AFF jumpmaster if you would have been allowed to jump with your RSL disconnected. Nope. Bet neither your AFF jumpmaster or your coaches on jumps 10 through 30 would have allowed you to jump with your RSL disconnected. Why should you do without one now? Question answered. My opinion: This old dog rig, harness and container included, is not a rig for a 30 jump "still learning" jumper, as I assume it is not RSL equipped. (Actually I guess we are all still learning.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airtwardo 6 #21 November 21, 2011 Quote Blue skies JT Opinion: You have 30 jumps. You trained with assemblies with RSL's. the Racer you are looking at: Does it have an RSL? Bet not. Ask your AFF jumpmaster if you would have been allowed to jump with your RSL disconnected. Nope. Bet neither your AFF jumpmaster or your coaches on jumps 10 through 30 would have allowed you to jump with your RSL disconnected. Why should you do without one now? Question answered. My opinion: This old dog rig, harness and container included, is not a rig for a 30 jump "still learning" jumper, as I assume it is not RSL equipped. (Actually I guess we are all still learning.) ~Come on dpre, just add a Steven's Line & a ripcord stop and that rig is good to go!Anybody know a GOOD rigger?? ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites theonlyski 3 #22 November 21, 2011 Quote Anybody know a GOOD rigger?? Getting pretty fuckin picky nowdays aren't ya?!?"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nigel99 144 #23 November 21, 2011 For what it is worth IF the harness is the right size, it might be worth it. I don't think the condition of the main really matters. Something that nobody else has mentioned, is demo canopies. At this stage it is a good thing to be trying out different mains so you don't really need one, if you demo lots of different mains. It gets you off the rental gear ladder as well. Once you find a main that suits you, you could buy one used.Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites davelepka 4 #24 November 21, 2011 Let me chime in one more time, now that the thread has progressed some. For the record, I have 1000's of jumps on Racers, most on one Racer. On that rig, and the others, I had all manner of flaps, risers and toggles out in freefall. On the one I jumped the most, it was modified to tackle these problems, and was also a tiny, tiny rig. In terms of a Racer, the smaller the rig, the better it will hold together. Racers lack stiffeners in the flaps, and a big flap with no stiffener has more space to move around and make trouble. Back to the idea of the rig in question - will it work? Provided it passes an airworthyness inspection, yes, adn I would use to make a parachtue descent. That's different than 'skydiving' however. To get me to the ground, I would trust it, to use a piece of sporting equipment for modern day jumping, I would not. Think about cars. A 1978 AMC Pacer, provided it's mechanically sound, is capable of getting you from point A to point B. It will not stop, turn or go as well as a more modern car, it's not as reliabe, won't get the milage, but in the end, it is a street legal car and could be used for transportation. A rig, on the other hand, is not something you buy to meet the minimum requirements of the basic task. If you need a car to get to work, maybe a Pacer would work, it you're looking for a car to do some drifting or autocross, the Pacer is not going to make you happy. Sport skydiving is like drifting or autocross, it's something you do for fun, and you want a piece of equipment that lends itself to that fun. An old Racer and F-111 main is not that piece of equipment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sundevil777 93 #25 November 21, 2011 The Pacer rocked! No blind spots. Fantastic visibility - to clear your airspace! People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
drdive 0 #17 November 20, 2011 My bad for not asking about exit weight etc. I do not push downsizing in general. I am still on the 188 I bought with 40 jumps. If this is all he can afford, oh well, I just don't feel he will be satisfied with 20+ year old gear and a F-111 especially if he has to pay for relining and mods. But it is only an opinion - which is what he asked for. "We saved your gear. Now you can sell it when you get out of the hospital and upsize!!" "K-Dub" " Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
likestojump 3 #18 November 20, 2011 Quote To the OP... I use a very good rigger. He will not pack my old Javlin because it's old enough to drink. It's a great rig and I use it as my second rig, but I have to find someone else to pack it. ....Check with a rigger. What is so "very good" about your rigger ? If you respect them so much, why do you not take their unwillingness to pack your rig as a sign that it needs to be retired ? On a 2nd note - Are they refusing to pack your rig simply because of it's age ? If so, you should remind the rigger that although they themselves are probably way over the drinking age, they are still functional. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjumpenfool 2 #19 November 20, 2011 Quote What is so "very good" about your rigger ? If you respect them so much, why do you not take their unwillingness to pack your rig as a sign that it needs to be retired ? I do respect this rigger. I also respect his personal policy. It's his policy to not pack rigs of this age, regardless of its condition. He was very honest and told me the rig is in very good condition for its age and that it's very airworthy. He also informed me that he would no longer be willing to make repairs on it (should it need repairs in the future). I respect his right to make that decision as well. He did not say this rig was ready to be retired. Had he told me that, I’d have retired it, because I respect his opinion. When this rig is ready to be retired, I will retire it. I also know this rigger will insist on its retirement if he thinks it’s due. My point to the OP was to check in with his rigger. Sometimes even airworthy gear has a downside. OP.... Consider resale value into the equation. If you can find a newer rig for sale and buy it cheap enough, you can jump it for a couple years then sell it for most of what you paid. The "cost per jump" might be less even though you paid more up front.Birdshit & Fools Productions "Son, only two things fall from the sky." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dpreguy 14 #20 November 21, 2011 Blue skies JT Opinion: You have 30 jumps. You trained with assemblies with RSL's. the Racer you are looking at: Does it have an RSL? Bet not. Ask your AFF jumpmaster if you would have been allowed to jump with your RSL disconnected. Nope. Bet neither your AFF jumpmaster or your coaches on jumps 10 through 30 would have allowed you to jump with your RSL disconnected. Why should you do without one now? Question answered. My opinion: This old dog rig, harness and container included, is not a rig for a 30 jump "still learning" jumper, as I assume it is not RSL equipped. (Actually I guess we are all still learning.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #21 November 21, 2011 Quote Blue skies JT Opinion: You have 30 jumps. You trained with assemblies with RSL's. the Racer you are looking at: Does it have an RSL? Bet not. Ask your AFF jumpmaster if you would have been allowed to jump with your RSL disconnected. Nope. Bet neither your AFF jumpmaster or your coaches on jumps 10 through 30 would have allowed you to jump with your RSL disconnected. Why should you do without one now? Question answered. My opinion: This old dog rig, harness and container included, is not a rig for a 30 jump "still learning" jumper, as I assume it is not RSL equipped. (Actually I guess we are all still learning.) ~Come on dpre, just add a Steven's Line & a ripcord stop and that rig is good to go!Anybody know a GOOD rigger?? ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 3 #22 November 21, 2011 Quote Anybody know a GOOD rigger?? Getting pretty fuckin picky nowdays aren't ya?!?"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nigel99 144 #23 November 21, 2011 For what it is worth IF the harness is the right size, it might be worth it. I don't think the condition of the main really matters. Something that nobody else has mentioned, is demo canopies. At this stage it is a good thing to be trying out different mains so you don't really need one, if you demo lots of different mains. It gets you off the rental gear ladder as well. Once you find a main that suits you, you could buy one used.Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #24 November 21, 2011 Let me chime in one more time, now that the thread has progressed some. For the record, I have 1000's of jumps on Racers, most on one Racer. On that rig, and the others, I had all manner of flaps, risers and toggles out in freefall. On the one I jumped the most, it was modified to tackle these problems, and was also a tiny, tiny rig. In terms of a Racer, the smaller the rig, the better it will hold together. Racers lack stiffeners in the flaps, and a big flap with no stiffener has more space to move around and make trouble. Back to the idea of the rig in question - will it work? Provided it passes an airworthyness inspection, yes, adn I would use to make a parachtue descent. That's different than 'skydiving' however. To get me to the ground, I would trust it, to use a piece of sporting equipment for modern day jumping, I would not. Think about cars. A 1978 AMC Pacer, provided it's mechanically sound, is capable of getting you from point A to point B. It will not stop, turn or go as well as a more modern car, it's not as reliabe, won't get the milage, but in the end, it is a street legal car and could be used for transportation. A rig, on the other hand, is not something you buy to meet the minimum requirements of the basic task. If you need a car to get to work, maybe a Pacer would work, it you're looking for a car to do some drifting or autocross, the Pacer is not going to make you happy. Sport skydiving is like drifting or autocross, it's something you do for fun, and you want a piece of equipment that lends itself to that fun. An old Racer and F-111 main is not that piece of equipment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 93 #25 November 21, 2011 The Pacer rocked! No blind spots. Fantastic visibility - to clear your airspace! People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
